King Edward VII (1841-1910) and Queen Alexandra (1844-1925)

[CyrilVladisla]

Did Queen Alexandra try to influence her husband's family and British ministers to favor Greek and Danish interests?

King Edward VII at the inauguration of a new dock at Cardiff.
https://www.gettyimages.com/license/501386701

Queen Alexandra on the roller coaster at the Franco-British Exhibition in London in 1908.
https://www.gettyimages.com/license/929998618

QueenPenny and Moonmaiden23, thank you for your interest. Queen Alexandra took her tour duties seriously.

 

[Furienna]

Did Queen Alexandra try to influence her husband's family and British ministers to favor Greek and Danish interests?

I seem to remember that Alexandra had supported Denmark in the Schleswig war of 1864, which irritated her mother-in-law, Queen Victoria, who decided to support Germany. Nevertheless though, I don't believe that Alexandra tried to have any political influence.

 

[Rudolph]

The Museum of Freemasonry will next month put jewels owned by Edward VII, who was Grand Master before he ascended to the throne on display for the British public, explaining in full for the first time his long term relationship with the brothers.

The exhibition will see some his personal jewels, left to the museum after his death, put on display to the wider public for the first time, in an effort to tell the story of how he used his membership to mix more widely with society than he could in royal life.

Around 150 jewels, including those once owned by the Duke of Connaught, Sir Arthur Conan Doyle and Rudyard Kipling, will also go on display in what the museum calls the “first major exhibition of masonic jewels in the UK”.

Read more: Freemasons open the door to the public as they reveal details about King Edward VII’s time as grandmaster

 

[QueenPenny]

Great picture CyrilVladisla!

 

[Moonmaiden23]

That is an amazing photograph...I had no idea it even existed!

 

[Queen Claude]

Hmmm interesting dress, it says that it was probably created between 1908 - 1910. The dress is black, I wonder if it is just a fancy black dress or if she was in mourning.

 

[duchessrachel]

I am currently reading "Letters to Vicky", a book of letters between Queen Victoria and her daughter Princess Vicky. Having read several books on British Royalty, I have been able to keep the familial relationship between the British Royal Family at that time and the other Royal families straight. But there is one that is driving me crazy. In one of the letters Queen Augusta of Prussia is mad at Princess Alexandra (wife of the future Edward VII) for not calling her "Aunt". Why? Was Augusta the aunt of Alexandra by blood or marriage? I missed something somewhere.

 

[Gawin]

I am currently reading "Letters to Vicky", a book of letters between Queen Victoria and her daughter Princess Vicky. Having read several books on British Royalty, I have been able to keep the familial relationship between the British Royal Family at that time and the other Royal families straight. But there is one that is driving me crazy. In one of the letters Queen Augusta of Prussia is mad at Princess Alexandra (wife of the future Edward VII) for not calling her "Aunt". Why? Was Augusta the aunt of Alexandra by blood or marriage? I missed something somewhere.

No, the Empress wasn't Alexandra's aunt. I'm guessing Augusta wanted to be called aunt because it would indicate a closeness between the two families. But Alexandra and the Danish Royal family despised Prussia because Prussia took the duchies of Schleswig-Holstein from Denmark. Alexandra kept the Prussian Royal family at arm's length. Needless to say she despised her husband's nephew Emperor William II.

 

[duchessrachel]

No, the Empress wasn't Alexandra's aunt. I'm guessing Augusta wanted to be called aunt because it would indicate a closeness between the two families. But Alexandra and the Danish Royal family despised Prussia because Prussia took the duchies of Schleswig-Holstein from Denmark. Alexandra kept the Prussian Royal family at arm's length. Needless to say she despised her husband's nephew Emperor William II.

Thank you. I knew I didn't remember reading about any familial ties.

 

[CyrilVladisla]

duchessrachel, At first I thought Queen Augusta of Prussia was originally from Holstein-Gottorp. However, after research I learned she was from Saxe-Weimar-Eisenach. Her mother was a Grand Duchess of Russia.

 

[duchessrachel]

duchessrachel, At first I thought Queen Augusta of Prussia was originally from Holstein-Gottorp. However, after research I learned she was from Saxe-Weimar-Eisenach. Her mother was a Grand Duchess of Russia.

Thank you.

 

[duchessrachel]

I have another question about some material in the "Letters to Vicky" book I am reading. From November 1869 January 1870, Queen Victoria and Vicky have a conversation in their letters about a lady-in-waiting to Vicky, named Valerie Hohenthal, who suddenly left Vicky. In the footnote it said she lived with Count Uxkull and eventually married him. However, it does not specifically say that this is the reason she left Vicky. They talk about a duel and how Queen Augusta was angry and bitter with both Valerie and Vicky. Queen Victoria says she wishes that Valerie could go to her sister (Walburg Lady Paget) or a friend. She feels that Valerie has been foolish, but that she is being abused by people because she is not conforming to the way that things are done. She then talks about the difficulties of unmarried ladies. Does anyone know the details of what happened here? I have tried to do Internet research but I am not coming up with anything. Thanks.
P.S. I am really enjoying this book!

 

[sndral]

I have another question about some material in the "Letters to Vicky" book I am reading. From November 1869 January 1870, Queen Victoria and Vicky have a conversation in their letters about a lady-in-waiting to Vicky, named Valerie Hohenthal, who suddenly left Vicky. In the footnote it said she lived with Count Uxkull and eventually married him. However, it does not specifically say that this is the reason she left Vicky. They talk about a duel and how Queen Augusta was angry and bitter with both Valerie and Vicky. Queen Victoria says she wishes that Valerie could go to her sister (Walburg Lady Paget) or a friend. She feels that Valerie has been foolish, but that she is being abused by people because she is not conforming to the way that things are done. She then talks about the difficulties of unmarried ladies. Does anyone know the details of what happened here? I have tried to do Internet research but I am not coming up with anything. Thanks.
P.S. I am really enjoying this book!

Here’s a snippet I found that gives a little background start at p. 17. No reference to a duel, tho’.
https://books.google.com/books?id=g...ECAYQAQ#v=onepage&q=valarie hohenthal&f=false
And here’s a photo of Valerie Hohenthal
https://www.rct.uk/collection/2800828/valerie-hohenthal-countess-uxkull-1841-78

 

[duchessrachel]

Here’s a snippet I found that gives a little background start at p. 17. No reference to a duel, tho’.
https://books.google.com/books?id=g...ECAYQAQ#v=onepage&q=valarie hohenthal&f=false
And here’s a photo of Valerie Hohenthal
https://www.rct.uk/collection/2800828/valerie-hohenthal-countess-uxkull-1841-78

Thank you. That clears it up. I found out upon further reading in "Letters to Vicky" that the duel had nothing to do with Valerie Hohenthal.

 

[Curryong]

Valerie was the sister of Wally Paget née Hohenthal, Vicky and Queen Victoria's great friend. Valerie apparently had 'advanced' anti-marriage views.

However, what it says about bearing her in the above snippet (as in bearing and losing two babies before marrying) can't be true as she and Alfred Uxkull-Gyllenbrand married in Switzerland in July 1871, so the anti-marriage thing cannot have lasted long, and their elder daughter was born the next year, the oldest of three children. Valerie died in 1878, and her Lt Colonel husband in 1877. Their son Nicholas became involved with von Stauffenberg in the 1944 plot against Hitler, and was killed.

 

[Denville]

Valerie was the sister of Wally Paget née Hohenthal, Vicky and Queen Victoria's great friend. Valerie apparently had 'advanced' anti-marriage views.

However, what it says about bearing her in the above snippet (as in bearing and losing two babies before marrying) can't be true as she and Alfred Uxkull-Gyllenbrand married in Switzerland in July 1871, so the anti-marriage thing cannot have lasted long, and their elder daughter was born the next year, the oldest of three children. Valerie died in 1878, and her Lt Colonel husband in 1877. Their son Nicholas became involved with von Stauffenberg in the 1944 plot against Hitler, and was killed.

wasn't he the Uncle of Claus Von Stauffenberg?

 

[Curryong]

Yes he was. Von Stauffenberg's mother Caroline was Nicholas's sister.

 

[Denville]

Yes he was. Von Stauffenberg's mother Caroline was Nicholas's sister.

sometime since I read a bio of Von Stauff but I did not remember that Nicholas had been killed? I thought that he survived, and he mentioned how he had helped Claus after his injuries had handicapped him..

 

[Curryong]

Von Stauffenberg was severely wounded in North Aftrica in 1943 when his vehicle was strafed by Allied planes. He was left maimed. However, both uncle and nephew were killed in 1944 after the unsuccessful July plot to kill Hitler.

 

[Denville]

Von Stauffenberg was severely wounded in North Aftrica in 1943 when his vehicle was strafed by Allied planes. He was left maimed. However, both uncle and nephew were killed in 1944 after the unsuccessful July plot to kill Hitler.

I was sure I'd read about his sayng that he helped Stauffenberg with dressing and handling things.. so I thought that he had survived.. He was 67. Can't bear to think of it...

 

[Curryong]

Yes, thousands were rounded up and sent to concentration camps on mere suspicion. Both Von Stauffenberg brothers were involved in the plot and were murdered. All less than twelve months before Hitler took his own life and the war in Europe ended. Dreadful.

 

[Denville]

Yes, thousands were rounded up and sent to concentration camps on mere suspicion. Both Von Stauffenberg brothers were involved in the plot and were murdered. All less than twelve months before Hitler took his own life and the war in Europe ended. Dreadful.

I thnk all 4 brothers were involved but Claus was of course the leader and was shot immediately after the coup failed. I wonder what Victoria and Edward would have made of Hitler and also would they have been proud of the Germans who did make the attempt to get rid of him...

 

[Curryong]

I think Claus's brother Bertrand (Berthold?) was most deeply involved, wasn't he? It's been a long time since I read about the July Plot, but I think one of the brothers was hanged with others by that awful piano wire thing that Hitler ordered, while Claus was shot.

I can imagine that both Victoria and Edward would be deeply shocked by Hitler and the Nazis. Victoria would have dislike the anti-religious nature of the regime. Edward certainly had no truck with anti-Semitism and had many Jewish friends in Society. Didn't Tsar Nicholas complain once on a visit to England that Edward was surrounded by (Jewish) 'horse traders' and that made him uneasy? The Rothschilds had horse racing interests, and were great friends of Edward's.

 

[Denville]

I think Claus's brother Bertrand (Berthold?) was most deeply involved, wasn't he? It's been a long time since I read about the July Plot, but I think one of the brothers was hanged with others by that awful piano wire thing that Hitler ordered, while Claus was shot.

I can imagine that both Victoria and Edward would be deeply shocked by Hitler and the Nazis. Victoria would have dislike the anti-religious nature of the regime. Edward certainly had no truck with anti-Semitism and had many Jewish friends in Society. Didn't Tsar Nicholas complain once on a visit to England that Edward was surrounded by (Jewish) 'horse traders' and that made him uneasy? The Rothschilds had horse racing interests, and were great friends of Edward's.

Yes berthold was "half hanged" on chicken wire and probably suffered horrendously. Claus was at least shot, quickly. Alexander the 3rd brother survived.. He was not really involved in the PLot because he had a partly Jewish wife.. so the brothers didn't want him involved.
I think that Victoria wasn't anti semitic.. she was great friends with Disraeli and didn't see him as Jewish because he had been brought up as Christian whereas Nazi Anti Semitism was racial. Anti Semitism in England was more "genteel" and a bit complex.. in that upper class Jews were often part of Society but still they were seen as somewhat alien.. by many.. and not fully accepted. Jews were still often seen as "money loving" or vulgar or odd in some way, even when they were formally accepted.
I think Edward was not like that.. if people were "good enough" for him to like and befriend them.. they were acceptable at his table and he didn't have any reservations. But some thought that his frendships with Jews was a sign that HE was money grubbing and vulgar...
I think that Ed and Victoria would have been horrified by how deeply anti semitic and "hating" German society had become in the post war years. Wihelm had been somewhat anti semtiics but had tolerated Jews because they were "good with money" and useful...

 

[duchessrachel]

I have begun reading "Queen Victoria's Children" by Van der Kiste. It mentions that at age 17, the future King Edward VII received an allowance of 500 pounds for clothing. Is there anywhere online that tells how much that is in current pounds? These little details interest me. Thanks.

 

[Countessmeout]

I have begun reading "Queen Victoria's Children" by Van der Kiste. It mentions that at age 17, the future King Edward VII received an allowance of 500 pounds for clothing. Is there anywhere online that tells how much that is in current pounds? These little details interest me. Thanks.

There are inflation calculators online which give you a general sense of what the equivalent would be today.

Edward was 17 in 1858

£500 in 1858 → 2017 | UK Inflation Calculator

 

[Curryong]

£500 is a very large sum of money for a youth to spend on his clothes anyway, though no doubt Edward's bills were paid by his Governor to prevent extravagance. Many middleclass men with families would be earning less than £500 per annum, let alone working class men whose earning capacity per year would be about a quarter of that.

Relative Value of Sums of Money

 

[Denville]

£500 is a very large sum of money for a youth to spend on his clothes anyway, though no doubt Edward's bills were paid by his Governor to prevent extravagance. Many middleclass men with families would be earning less than £500 per annum, let alone working class men whose earning capacity per year would be about a quarter of that.

Relative Value of Sums of Money

By royal standards, I don't think that £500 a year clothing allowance would be all that large a sum...

 

[Curryong]

^ Probably not. However it's a bit surprising, considering Prince Albert's constant homilies on 'fripperies', 'needless extravagance' etc. Unless he wished his son to get used to good tailoring and fashion. In which case the lesson 'took', as Bertie remained deeply interested in clothes all his life.

Where was a 17 year old supposed to go to wear all this new clothing? At 17 Bertie was still tucked away with tutors; university, tours, Royal engagements, were still some years away.

And I think that Prince Albert was blessed in that he had no tabloid press to deal with. Except for certain radical journals most Press was deferential. I can just imagine a DF in 1858 having fun comparing the £500 to the yearly income of a curate or clerk with four children, school teacher with large family, agricultural labourer etc!

Should William as Prince of Wales gift the schoolboy Prince George with a £60,000 clothing allowance when he reaches 17 and the news leaks out I can imagine the tabloids having something to say!

 

[Denville]

It was a different world. Bertie or his advisers probably bought the best of clothes... and ti was accepted by most of the public that the POW would be surrounded by wealth and luxury, which the poor and middle class could not aspire to.
And Prince Albert's attitude to Bertie did NOT make him into a Mini Albert, did it? Albert told him off over being idle, frivolous extravagant not interested in serious things, etc.. and Bertie basically remained like that most of his life... Albert almost literaly killed himself with getting upset over Bertie's first affair... and Bertie had hundreds of women. He was annoyed that even "when shooting B was more interested in his trousers than in the shooting" and Bertie indeed did love clothes and was obsessed by them... He was annoyed that B was not much of a reader.. and Bertie remained not much of a reader!