King Edward VII (1841-1910) and Queen Alexandra (1844-1925)

[Iluvbertie]

She died in 1898 so she saw Dagmar crowned as Empress of Russia, and her grandson as Tsar as well as seeing her second son become King of the Hellenes but she died before her eldest son became King of Denmark or Alexandra was crowned Queen/Empress in 1902.

 

[silverstar]

Quite amazing.... she must have loved getting letters and reports of
Alexandra's exciting life in London... to say nothing of all the magazines !

 

[Wayne]

Alix and Sissi

Out of Alexandra and Elizabeth of Austria, I wonder who was considered the greater beauty?

 

[MAfan]

I was a very hard match; and if I remember correctly, also Empress Eugenia of the French was considered one of the beautiest Sovereigns at the time, despite she was much older than Elisabeth and Alexandra.

 

[Vasillisos Markos]

I think when considering classic beauty, Elizabeth might have had the edge but when it came to charm, I believe Alexandra was peerless.

 

[silverstar]

How could anyone compete with that wonderful mane of
auburn hair ? Her expression often seems a little serious but she was a thoroughbred beauty all the same.
The fact that she was a brilliant horsewoman too... gives her a special appeal.
I feel in a way she was a bit like Madonna... constantly exercising and working out to keep herself slim and attractive... although Elizabeths workouts were endless days of hunting or long, strenuous walks in the countryside.

 

[Wayne]

I've been judging old photos and pictures of the two beauties in question, I find Alexandra the greater beauty, as Sissi seems to have a hardness about her face/expression.

 

[Furienna]

I would say it's a tie between them.

 

[Vasillisos Markos]

I agree Furienna, both were exceptionally attractive women.

 

[silverstar]

Those two Danish sisters ... Alexandra and Dagmar.... were ruling the world back in the 19th cent...
esp the fashion world... their svelt images filling the newspapers... the womens magazines etc...
Alexandra was a superstar in England in a Lady Diana kind of way..... but nowadays , we are hardly aware of the Danish Royal ladies.

 

[Iluvbertie]

Those two Danish sisters ... Alexandra and Dagmar.... were ruling the world back in the 19th cent...
esp the fashion world... their svelt images filling the newspapers... the womens magazines etc...
Alexandra was a superstar in England in a Lady Diana kind of way..... but nowadays , we are hardly aware of the Danish Royal ladies.

But it wasn't as Danes that they made their mark but as the wives of the heirs to Britain and Russia. Denmark then as now was a minor player on the European stage.

 

[Zonk]

Those two Danish sisters ... Alexandra and Dagmar.... were ruling the world back in the 19th cent...
esp the fashion world... their svelt images filling the newspapers... the womens magazines etc...
Alexandra was a superstar in England in a Lady Diana kind of way..... but nowadays , we are hardly aware of the Danish Royal ladies.

And I am sure there enough people at TRF that follow the Danish Royal Family that would beg to differ. The Danish forum is one of the most popular forums at TRF, not as big and popular as the BRF but popular nonetheless. And there are other sites dedicated to the Danes, the Dutch, the Brits, etc.

I wonder if Alexandra ever felt any guilt about holding back Victoria from finding love and having her own home. I realize that "keeping" an unmarried daughter was the norm, but still. I wonder why she didn't do a Victoria or Edward didn' speak up. Thank goodness Victoria did a compromise for Beatrice. Her heirs wouldn't sit on the throne of Spain today.

 

[Iluvbertie]

And I am sure there enough people at TRF that follow the Danish Royal Family that would beg to differ. The Danish forum is one of the most popular forums at TRF, not as big and popular as the BRF but popular nonetheless. And there are other sites dedicated to the Danes, the Dutch, the Brits, etc.

I wonder if Alexandra ever felt any guilt about holding back Victoria from finding love and having her own home. I realize that "keeping" an unmarried daughter was the norm, but still. I wonder why she didn't do a Victoria or Edward didn' speak up. Thank goodness Victoria did a compromise for Beatrice. Her heirs wouldn't sit on the throne of Spain today.

Because of Edward's affairs he really allowed Alexandra her way with the family.

 

[silverstar]

Ive only seen one pic of the sisters together... they used to love
to dress identically apparantly ( a habit from childhood )... they must have been seen out and about
together in London once or twice too!

Alexandra and her sister... Dagmar.... (left ) who of course married Tsar Alexandre 111
Even as adults... the two sisters used to like dressing identically.....
On an extended visit to England Alexandra and her sister often appeared like identical twins.

(Must be Dagmar on the left......)

 

[Vasillisos Markos]

And I am sure there enough people at TRF that follow the Danish Royal Family that would beg to differ. The Danish forum is one of the most popular forums at TRF, not as big and popular as the BRF but popular nonetheless. And there are other sites dedicated to the Danes, the Dutch, the Brits, etc.

I wonder if Alexandra ever felt any guilt about holding back Victoria from finding love and having her own home. I realize that "keeping" an unmarried daughter was the norm, but still. I wonder why she didn't do a Victoria or Edward didn' speak up. Thank goodness Victoria did a compromise for Beatrice. Her heirs wouldn't sit on the throne of Spain today.

I, too, have often wondered about this but I am assuming, without reading it anywhere, that Toria wished to be married but Alexandra put her foot down and refused to allow it. Is this what happened? I would like to be directed to evidence showing this to be the case. Because I know people who, due to their own innate shyness or for other reasons, never married and remained companions to their parents long after the siblings married and had children.

What was the real story with Toria? Did Alexandra keep Toria from socializing with people her own age?

 

[Lenora]

Lillie Langtry and Edward VII

What did it happen to a child of Lilley and the king(I've read it was a daughter).Do they have descendants?

 

[Zonk]

Edward VII was not the father of Lillie Langtry's daughter. The father was/is Prince Louis of Battenberg.

 

[Lenora]

Edward VII was not the father of Lillie Langtry's daughter. The father was/is Prince Louis of Battenberg.

Thank you and what did it happen to her?

 

[Zonk]

On March 8, 1881, she gave birth to a daughter, Jeanne Marie.The discovery of Lillie's passionate letters to Arthur Jones in 1878 and their publication by Laura Beatty in 1999 support the idea that Jones was the father. Prince Louis's son, Earl Mountbatten of Burma, had always maintained that his father was the father of Jeanne Marie.In 1902 Jeanne Marie married the Scottish politician, Sir Ian Malcolm. They had four children. Lady Malcolm died in 1964.

 

[Vasillisos Markos]

According to Richard Hough, the author of Louis and Victoria, The First Mountbattens, Prince Louis of Battenberg conducted his affair with such discretion that few suspected he was seeing the Jersey Lily. Once the Prince of Wales dropped her for her familiarity with him (slipping a piece of ice down his back at a costume party), Louis and some others were the only ones to stick by Mrs. Langtry. Years later a play opened in 1940 but closed soon thereafter because of the German invasion. Paul Henreid played Prince Louis and the play was about his love affair with Lily Langtry.

It was reported that when Jeanne Marie learned of her illegitimacy, she complained bitterly and was asked, "Who would you prefer to have as a father, a penniless druken Irishman or a Royal Prince and the most handsome of all naval officers?"

Hough, pp. 97-98.

 

[Zonk]

How is that book...I have been searching frantically for it on ebay and half.com. I have actually found it...but I confess I am being cheap.

 

[Vasillisos Markos]

How is that book...I have been searching frantically for it on ebay and half.com. I have actually found it...but I confess I am being cheap.

Zonk,

I am enjoying it. I have learned a great deal about Prince Louis and his Battenberg family. In addition, I did not realize Queen Victoria was so fond of Victoria and how much she used Victoria to convey her feelings and wishes to other members of the royal family. In addition, the Queen was dismayed at Victoria's keen enjoyment of reading and how she questioned everything, which the Queen found to be annoying.

Don't forget to check out Amazon as well. That's where I found the book.

 

[missmaggy]

Edward VII biography by Hibbert

In his biography Edward VII: The Last Victorian King Christopher Hibbert refers to a declaration concerning the doctrine of transubstantiation which the King was supposed to make prior to reading the government's speech at the opening of Parliament.

What sort of statement was the King to make, and why would this religious issue be included in a secular event? Is this sort of thing still required/done?

Any explanation will be most welcome.

 

[Iluvbertie]

Transubstantiation is a fundamental difference in belief between CoE and Roman Catholics. It is therefore important that the Supreme Governor of the Church of England promise to uphold that difference and the time to officially do it was at their first opening of Parliament and hence Edward did in in 1901.

The Church of England is still an established church, e.g. the Archbishops of Canterbury and York and at least 12 other bishops still have seats in the House of Lords and vote on all legislation that they wish to do. All bishops are appointed by the monarch on the recommendation of the PM - one of the reasons why Tony Blair didn't convert to RC while PM as he rightly felt that a Roman Catholic shouldn't be recommending who would be bishops in the CoE to the monarch.

Edward would also have made similar words at his accession council and at his coronation although the formal reading of the proclamation and signing of the document as well happens at the first opening of parliament.

There was some opposition from the RC to the wording of the declaration and I think it was changed slightly by the time of George V but in essence the monarch, who is also the Supreme Governor of the Church of England, must promise to uphold that branch of protestantism.

 

[Royal Fan]

Does everyone think he would be a good /great /or bad King. what are Historians views

 

[Zonk]

I think history (or at least the books I have read) has viewed Edward VII as a good King, an indulgent grandfather, and an awful husband. Considering that he wasn't trained as much...he certainly had an eye for personalities and was a good influence on international events. But I also think he was more of a consitutional monarch more than his mother......so he was worried about the monarchy's future. I dont' think he would have viewed himself favorably.

I recently read a book (sorry I can't remember the title) where he basically did a George V...saying that the Kaiser would ruin himself within a certain time period...and was pretty much right on the money.

 

[Iluvbertie]

I wouldn't necessarily describe him as an awful husband - unfaithful yes but he never allowed anyone to speak badly about her, always insisted that she was in charge in the household etc. In fact he did many things in the relationship that shows that he was a good husband but not a faithful one. If he hadn't cheated on her but they had also stopped sleeping together he would be seen as a good husband.

 

[Zonk]

I would characterize him as a bad husband and maybe awful. He was in what... at least two scandals because of his straying? And flaunted his last mistress in his wife's face? Yes, she might have accepted it...and they were not a normal couple for so many years, and it could have been the times...but Yes, I think that is an awful husband.

Yes, he always defended her but was it because of affection or guilt?

 

[Iluvbertie]

There was one scandal due to his straying - the Harriet Mordaunt divorce case which went against her. He gave evidence and under oath denied ever having had sex with her although he did admit to being alone with her in her house. The other scandal related to his gambling.

I don't condone his cheating but do understand it. He was 29 years old when John died and he and Alexandra were advised to not have any more children.

Alexandra made friends with most of his mistresses based on the fact that she often remained friendly with them and had time with them alone even after the affairs ended. That is more than simply accepting to me.

I do believe that Edward loved her as she loved him. Their love mightn't have been sexual after the early 1870s but was emotional and real in every other way.

 

[Vasillisos Markos]

I recently read a book (sorry I can't remember the title) where he basically did a George V...saying that the Kaiser would ruin himself within a certain time period...and was pretty much right on the money.

I am currently reading Louis and Victoria, The First Mountbattens and there was a cite to Edward VII saying something about the Kaiser ruining himself. I will try to locate it and post it later. Edward VII and George V, as well as Victoria, made use of Prince Louis of Battenberg's connections to the royal families of Europe and his devotion to the British Navy as an unofficial way to conduct diplomacy on behalf of the UK. Louis and his wife, Victoria, made good observations and very shrewd comments about their royal relations in Germany, Russia and elsewhere which history bore out.

There was one scandal due to his straying - the Harriet Mordaunt divorce case which went against her. He gave evidence and under oath denied ever having had sex with her although he did admit to being alone with her in her house. The other scandal related to his gambling.

I don't condone his cheating but do understand it. He was 29 years old when John died and he and Alexandra were advised to not have any more children.

Alexandra made friends with most of his mistresses based on the fact that she often remained friendly with them and had time with them alone even after the affairs ended. That is more than simply accepting to me.

I do believe that Edward loved her as she loved him. Their love mightn't have been sexual after the early 1870s but was emotional and real in every other way.

I agree with Iluvbertie's assessment. By today's standards Edward VII would not be considered a good husband, but at the time Edward's behavior was accepted and tolerated. Does this mean Alexandra was not hurt by his straying? Not necessarily, but I think she made the best of a bad situation. I hope to learn more by reading the Duff biography of Alexandra. But I did read a book about Louisa McDonnell, the Countess of Antrim, who was a lady-in-waiting to both Queen Victoria and Queen Alexandra. From Louisa's comments, it appears there was great affection between Edward and Alexandra and I think they loved each other, even if their marriage no longer had a sexual aspect or component to it.