Kaiser Wilhelm II (1859-1941) and Family

[jonnydep]

about Wilhelm and Ella...it was during his student days at Bonn, when he fell in love with her and he spent most of his time in between his lessons writing love poems dedicated to her.....but the romance was doomed....it is said that his mother the strong willed Crown Princess Vicky refused to let her son marry her niece..the result is that Ella did not have much choice in the matter but to turn him down !!

his love for her never died, even after his marriage to Dona, the memory of Ella haunted him. when she married the Grand Duke, he was inconsolable and he refused to see her except on state occasions and then he only exchanged the briefest of civilities to her !

it is said that he kept a photograph of Ella on his desk until the day he died.....very touching !

 

[Russophile]

and he would openly compare her with his cousin Ella, his first love. And guess what, Ella was always the winner during these comparisons. It seems that years needed to pass before being able to fully appreciate her.

It is said he made several appeals to Ella to leave Russia during the revolution (Massie, oh there's another book that has it too! Russo needs more caffiene!! ) and would have given her his protection but she would have none of it.

 

[maria-olivia]

I visited his last home : Het Doorn near Uttrecht ; very interesting.

 

[COUNTESS]

Ella dispised him. Found him boorish and unstable. Not that Sergei was a gem.

 

[fearghas]

Wilhelm loved Great Britain, but for years fought against and tried to destroy it.

Perhaps like an immature child, if he couldn't have it then no one would.

 

[CarolinaLandgrave]

Ella dispised him. Found him boorish and unstable. Not that Sergei was a gem.

Amen to that!!!! Ella passed up one odd duck for a completely different odd duck!

Perhaps like an immature child, if he couldn't have it then no one would.

This is, in my opinion, one of the best summations of the Kaiser and his love-hate relationship with his British kin!!

 

[MAfan]

Perhaps like an immature child, if he couldn't have it then no one would.

Yes, this explanation suits him perfectly.

 

[Marengo]

Perhaps like an immature child, if he couldn't have it then no one would.

Well, to say that Wilhelm tried to destroy the UK is a bit too much and and too much of an anglosaxon approach to history. He was jealous of his uncle for sure, and did not like him (the feeling was mutual. But the love-hate relationship also has to do with Germany itself.

I am following a very interesting course at university called 'About Violence and Evil in Europe', and two weeks ago the German sentiments before WWI were discussed.

The love-hate for the UK was something which lived in Germany and mainly had to do with Germany's late arrival in the center of European politics (1871). It felt that they needed to conquer a position in the world, which f.e. resulted in getting useless colonies like Namibia, Tangenika etc. The construction of a fleet was also part of this. Added to this there was a cultural 'wave', that many thought that German culture was somehow superior to the rest of Europe, and that the Germans needed a place in the world. Add to this the sense of 'einkreisung', the isolated position of Germany, the social-Darwinism model of weak-strong states that was en vogue in science (not only in Germany) and hysterical sources about the potential strength of the Russian army, and a 'pre emptive strike' towards Russia, with all the consequenses isn't too hard too imagine.

The goal was never to distroy the UK, in fact the Germans would much rather had the UK out of the war. To reduce WWI to cousin Willy being jealous of WWI also forgets that his position was weak and he was like a puppet in the hands of who really comanded Germany. Militairy men like Erich von Ludendorff and Paul von Hindenburg.

 

[EmpressRouge]

When Frederich married Victoria, Bismark commented that he liked everything about the bride except that she was British. Victoria certainly had the personality and education to be a Queen/Empress, but Bismark did not like having even more British influence in Prussia, especially since there was already British hegemony everywhere.

 

[jonnydep]

His relationship with his Maternal Family

he did have a sincere wish to belong and be fully accepted by the family, but given his character, perhaps he was only tolerated by the family. even his grandmother, The Queen wrote this of him " he is such a hotheaded, conceited and wrong headed young man, devoid of all feeling !". yes even as a young man he was unbearable in their eyes. his conduct and actions grated upon the family !

Wilhelm may had picked up on this and as a result he may had felt slighted and over time he began to believe the worst of his british relatives and harbour resentment towards them. thus he sought petty revenges against them, esp his uncle Berite, for example, having succeeding to the German throne, he made sure he scored points over him regarding protocol, such as his visit to the Austian capital in 1888 !!. he had arranged to arrive on the very same day as his uncle was to arrive and him being a crowned head would have the stage to himself....

such actions did nothing to endear him further to the family, in fact quite the reverse. they never took him seriously as a person and if there was one thing he resented more than English Criticism that was the English condescension !

matters even became much worse after the death of the old Queen. his feelings towards his uncle now King (Edward VII) became more intense, he regarded him as a corrupt double dealing old roue.. as the Encircler: a satanic schemer intent on ringing Germany with ememies. they met officially and unofficially several times during the Kings short reign, but it was said that "a feeling of thunder was in the air" when both men was together.

somewhat oddly Wilhelm, still pined for acceptance and to have a sense of belonging to the family, he is once said to uncle on a visit "blood is thicker than water, we are one family" and continued his overtures of friendship towards his uncle and his uncles country....but his very actions had put paid to this, if anyone was double dealing at this time it was himself, not the King and everyone knew it to be so...

yet within the family, he some had allies, it was said that both the future King George V and Queen Mary had a great liking to him and quite fond of him too !!. he himself admired his cousin Georgie and during his exile , he replaced his agressively waxed moustache with a soft grey beard so favoured by his cousin.

and as mentioned, during his exile he had lived the life of an English countryman, and by doing so.... perhaps he did find an acceptance and a sense of belonging of sorts in his heart which was so often denied him !!.

 

[Vizier]

I have a question about the marriage of Wilhelm and Augusta Viktoria (Dona).

It seems there was some question about whether she was royal enough for the marriage to be an "ebenburtig" match that would produce offspring eligible to inherit the throne. Obviously it was resolved in favor of the marriage, but I still am puzzled. There are two aspects to this.

Some people thought that the daughter of a Duke of Schleswig-Holstein (which was not a ruling family or even a mediatized one), but it does seem that other German royal families thought it was ok to marry with the Schleswig-Holsteins. Was this b/c of the Dukes very, very remote connection to the Danish throne?

But the more puzzling aspect is that Augusta Viktoria (Dona's) maternal grandmother was a mere Danish Countess and not at all royal. Was the idea that if this was good enough for the Scheswig-Holstein Ducal house (so Dona's father became Duke despite his mother's background) then the Hohenzollerns would not object?

 

[fearghas]

I know that his mother never really approved. I also think I read somewhere that he had the support of Bismark in the marriage. It also makes the fuss over his sisters wish to marry a battenberg a bit hypocritcal.

 

[CarolinaLandgrave]

Just finished reading another book on Willy "Kaiser Wilhelm II - Germany's Last Emperor" by John van der Kiste....
The author stated the marriage was a result (as usual) of Willy's impatience as a result of being spurned by his cousin Elizabeth of Hesse-Darmstadt "Ella".... and he also had the full backing, as Fearghas said, of Bismark. Vicky seems to oscillate on her position with Dona. Queen Victoria, in van der Kiste's book, referred to Dona as a "poor, insignificant, foolish little princess".... so QV must have not thought much of her (although she was descended from her half-sister).
If this was QV's opinion of Dona... I can't imagine the Hohenzollern's liking her! Esp Kaiser Wilhelm I (who was still alive), who had been denied the chance to marry his love - Elisa Radziwill - who had much more royal blood, Hohenzollern even, than Dona!!

 

[Zonk]

I have read that book as well as another one on Willy.

It seems like Princess Vicky (Will's mother) also had high hopes for the marriage. Prior to the marriage she thought that Dona was a likable enough person and I believe supported the marriage. It wasn't until after they got married that Dona did a 180 and started to treat Vicky with the same disdain as Willy.

Honestly, some people are just born unhappy. I don't think anything would have pleased him. And although Serge was not a prize, I think Ella did the right thing. But one does question if Willy would have been so favor of a war in Europe.

 

[CarolinaLandgrave]

I agree, Zonk - Ella would not have been happy within the Hohenzollern court -I tend to see a little of her Aunt Vicky in her...
And Willy - nothing short of being born Prince of Wales instead of 3rd in line to the German Empire would have made him happy.... a much maligned, confused, and trouble person he was.

 

[EmpressRouge]

It seems like Princess Vicky (Will's mother) also had high hopes for the marriage. Prior to the marriage she thought that Dona was a likable enough person and I believe supported the marriage. It wasn't until after they got married that Dona did a 180 and started to treat Vicky with the same disdain as Willy.

Based on what I've read, Dona was not particularly bright nor had any political ideas of her own, unlike Vicky. Basically, she was the perfect dutiful, submissive wife to Willy, since if it hadn't been for him, she would have just been some minor royal whose father had questionable sovereignty. It wouldn't surprise me that Vicky thought she could mold Dona, but Willy got to her first and Dona did the 180 in her attitude towards Vicky.

 

[CarolinaLandgrave]

Dona was for sure nothing at all like Vicky - she didn't have the no where close to the intelligence of her mother-in-law. Ella, on the other hand.... different story, in my opinion.

 

[EmpressRouge]

In King, Kaiser, Tsar Clay claims that Vicky did NOT want Ella as a wife for Willy, despite being her own niece. Alice had been a carrier of hemophilia and Ella stood a good chance of being one, too. Vicky had lucked out and did not bring the disease to the Prussian house, but it would have been disastrous for her own niece to introduce hemophilia to the very "pure blood" conscious Hohenzollern.

 

[MAfan]

If it is true, why did she accept the marriage of her second son Heinrich to Ella's sister Irene, who actually was carrier of aemophilia and transmitted the disease to two of their three sons?

 

[EmpressRouge]

If it is true, why did she accept the marriage of her second son Heinrich to Ella's sister Irene, who actually was carrier of aemophilia and transmitted the disease to two of their three sons?

That is an interesting question and I haven't read anything on that. My guess is Heinrich was not the heir (although as the second son, pretty close to it). Also, she probably wouldn't have forbidden Willy to marry Ella and the marriage didn't happen not on account of Vicky, but because Ella refused his proposal, which was convenient.

 

[MAfan]

Well, of course having Ella refused Willy's proposal Vicky would never say "You may be carries, I don't want you"; after all Ella was her niece, and nobody had any interest in creating more mess among Queen Victoria's descendants.

 

[CarolinaLandgrave]

I've never read anything on it... but wonder what Queen Victoria's opinion on a marriage between Willy and Ella was? She seemed to be keen on her grandchildren marrying... She tried to match Eddy and Alicky (what a disaster that would have been), she tried to match Georgie with Missy (Mama Marie squashed that one), she was very keen on Ernie and Ducky's fiasco of a marriage.... I suppose she was as keen on Henry & Irene...
But what she thought about Ella and Willy? For sure she wasn't happy with Ella's marriage to Serge or Alicky's later marriage to Nicky!!

 

[Kasumi]

Sex parties, bloody duels and blackmail: Life at court of the last German emperor - an article in Guardian.co.uk

 

[Russophile]

I've got "Darling Mama" I'll see if something is in there on that.
Victoria didn't expect to find such a formidable foe in the marriage market in Marie of Edinburgh. She (Victoria) should have known better, however due to all the years Marie suffered those slights she was angry about due to being in an inferior (she thought) position at court.

 

[CarolinaLandgrave]

Thanks Russo! I would think that as opinionated as QV was... that surely somewhere is a mention of her thoughts on Ella and Willy.
And excellent point on Marie Edinburgh..... the formidable daughter of Alexander II never had it easy with her mother-in-law's court.... so QV should have figured that she'd do all she could to block her daughter's marriage into said same court.... although she was born to it (per say).

 

[ebliever]

Governess to Crown Prince Wilhelm's children?

Hi, I was wondering if anyone might happen to know (or know where I could discover) the name of the nanny/governess to the children of Crown Prince Wilhelm (son of Kaiser Wilhelm II)?

Family lore is that the half-sister of my great-grandmother (maiden name Anna Luescher) was the nanny. There is a variety of circumstantial evidence that is consistent with this, but I have no direct proof. (It doesn't help that my great-grandparents lost everything in a fire in their home in America.) I have the names of her siblings, so I'm hopeful I could find a match if I can just get some documentation of the name of the nanny through other sources.

 

[SchwarzerAdler]

Dear ebliever,

as far as I know and could investigate there have been following women serving for the children of the Crown Prince:
Fräulein von Ernst (Swiss Nurse)
Selma Zoske (Nanny from Berlin)
Selma Böse (Nanny from Berlin too)
Fräulein Bergner, who went to the US later on and was governess to several families over there.

Then there was a chambermaid named Anna Pifrement (from Potsdam)

And later on there was an english governess named Miss Brimble, of whom I could not get the first name.

I hope I could help You a little bit. The name Anna Luescher was not among the women I could bring up.

Regards
Alex R.

 

[Vasillisos Markos]

My dear friends,

I am currently reading King, Kaiser, Tsar and loving it. There is so much I really did not know about Wilhelm; my exposure to him came mainly through books about other royals and how they viewed Willy. I am fascinated by the love/hate he had towards England and also about his fascination/obsession with his very English mother. Vicky certainly would not have won mother of the year honors when it came to Willy and I believe she was always repulsed and upset about his disfigured arm.

A complex man, guilty of many things but certainly warped or fashioned (depending on your view) by the family and sycophants around him. His parents wanted him to be liberal and British in his outlook; his grandfather and Bismarck wanted him to be autocratic and Prussian in bearing. They won and Willy, succumbing to their flattery, slighted his father and his English relatives at every turn.

Now, don't get me started on his homosexual/bi-sexual tendencies. . . .

 

[Mermaid1962]

He certainly was a fascinating character. I wonder sometimes how the 20th century would have been different had he not had that withered arm.

 

[Zonk]

I read that book as well! Very fascinating.