Imperial Family of Brazil 1: Ending 2021

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Why would the government care one way or the other?
 
NGalitzine said:
Why would the government care one way or the other?
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I don't know why, but this is not happening only in Brazil.

King Michael is recognized by the Romanian Government, the Duke of Braganza is recognized by the Portuguese Governement, the same goes for Crown Prince Alexander of Serbia and Prince Leka of Albania. I see no reason for that's not happening with the Head of the Brazilian Imperial House.

Here, in Brazil, we are seen a kind of revitalization of the Imperial Period, and, since, 2008, members of the Imperial Family are been invited to take part in some official events.

Things like that are not only with the deposed European Royals, it's also happening in Brazil.
 
The Government of Brazil recognizes no Imperial Family, neither does our Constitution. Of course the Goverment respects the descendents of our previous King and Emprerors, regardless of the branch they belong to. And that is all. 99 per cent of the population don't even know who D. Gastâo is. When there was a plebiscite for the Brazilian people to choose the form of Government they wanted, it was made very clear that no person was being appointed then to be the eventual king and that that matter was going to be resolved later if Monarchy was chosen. Neither of the branches make the front page on the newspapers and prime time news on tv. The only time they made big news was in 2008 when Brazil celebrated 200 years of the coming of the royal family to Brazil when Napoleon troups invaded Portugal. What the Brazilians are learning to do is to respect our past and previous King and Emperors due to new studies and researches done by respected scholars and writers.
 
In fact, there's a kind of recognition by the Government. When Prince Luiz gave an interview to "TV Câmara" he was introduced as the Head of the Imperial House. Well, "TV Câmara" is the offical channel of the Chamber of Deputies of the Brazilian Congress.

Also, in 2008, the Government invited Prince Luiz, as the Head of the Imperial House, and Prince Bertrand, as the Prince Imperial, to take part in official celebration of 200th anniversary of the Portugueses Royal Family arrival in Brazil. During those events, they receive the Duke and Duchess of Braganza.

Prince Antônio and his daughter, Princess Maria Gabriela, represented the Imperial Family in the anniversary of Emperor Pedro I's statue, in Rio de Janeiro (an official event). Prince Antônio is always invited to represent the Imperial Family in events of Emperor's Batallion..

And that thing of the Congress deciding who will be the Emperor is one of the most ridiculous things I ever heard in my life.
That was one of the many things the Republican Government made in order to disrupt the Monarchist Campaign.
Why messing up with the Line of Succession, if the heir to Throne is, clearly, Prince Luiz?
 
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BrazilianEmpire said:
...And that thing of the Congress deciding who will be the Emperor is one of the most ridiculous things I ever heard in my life.
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Well, that's what happens in democracies, the elected representatives like to have a say in matters of state.
 
Warren said:
Well, that's what happens in democracies, the elected representatives like to have a say in matters of state.
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If we end up with an elected Emperor, it's better to remain with the Republic.

What's undemocratic in the lawful heir to the Throne becoming the Monarch?
 
Well, the Parliament in England ruled out the Catholic Stuarts so I guess the Brazilian Congress could do pretty much what they felt like (or what they thought their electors wanted them to do)....
And I would say D. Gastão is not the lawful heir, albeit being the rightful.
 
cmbruno said:
Well, the Parliament in England ruled out the Catholic Stuarts so I guess the Brazilian Congress could do pretty much what they felt like (or what they thought their electors wanted them to do)....
And I would say D. Gastão is not the lawful heir, albeit being the rightful.
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I don't think that what the Parliament of England has done in 18th century would be considered a very democratic act today.

As Prince Antônio always says: "The best Emperor will always be the heir." When you start to messing up with the Line of Succession, you end up with a "Crowned Republic."

And why Prince Luiz isn't the lawful heir?
 
cmbruno said:
There is no Brazilian law stating he is the heir, is there?
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Well, as it's impossible for a Republican Constitution to have an law regarding Monarchical succession, we, the Monarchist, and the Imperial Family, are based in the Imperial Constitution of 1824, and, according to it, Prince Luiz is the rightful heir of the Brazilian Throne.
 
So, we are beating around the bush here. As I stated before he is the rightful heir not the lawful.
 
cmbruno said:
So, we are beating around the bush here. As I stated before he is the rightful heir not the lawful.
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It depends of your point of view. If we take the Imperial Constitution of 1824 as reference, Prince Luiz is the lawful and rightful heir. But, for the actual Constitution, no one is the heir, because there's no Throne.

Sabe, é muito estranho ter que conversar em inglês com outro brasileiro. Ainda mais sendo a Família Imperial do Brasil o assunto do qual estamos tratando.
 
É bom para praticarmos o inglês... risos
 
Since the empire was abolished about 120 years ago why would Brazilians ever want it back? It is not as if there is any one is still alive who can remember the "good old days" of empire. What benefit would there be to the Brazilian people in a restoration of a long gone monarchy? The benefit to the Braganzas is obvious.
 
NGalitzine said:
Since the empire was abolished about 120 years ago why would Brazilians ever want it back? It is not as if there is any one is still alive who can remember the "good old days" of empire. What benefit would there be to the Brazilian people in a restoration of a long gone monarchy? The benefit to the Braganzas is obvious.
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Quite simple, the Monarchy was the "Golden Age" of Brazil, the country was the 4th of the world's most developed country, our people were respect everywere.

The Republic endend with all that. It's was proclaimed without any public support, and comes up holding with coups, corruption and scandals.

From 1891 to 1988, be a Monarchist was illegal. Since 1988, the Monarchist are trying to show people that Monarchy is better. In 1993 we had a good result in the referendum (13% after 97 years of persecution and lies told by the Republicans).

Today, the Monarchist Moviment is getting strong, little by little. As for benefits, there will be more for the Brazilian people. We had one of the less expensive Courts in the world. Today, the Presidents costs five times more than the British Monarchy.
 
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BrazilianEmpire said:
I don't think that what the Parliament of England has done in 18th century would be considered a very democratic act today.
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Parliaments represent the will of the people. That is the very essence of a democratically-elected parliamentary system of government.

Most of the parliaments of the monarchies in Europe have, over the past decade or so, changed their country's traditional laws of succession, just as the British parliament is about to do. Agree with these changes or not, but under a constitutional monarchy the will of the parliament is supreme.
 
Warren said:
Parliaments represent the will of the people. That is the very essence of a democratically-elected parliamentary system of government.

Most of the parliaments of the monarchies in Europe have, over the past decade or so, changed their country's traditional laws of succession, just as the British parliament is about to do. Agree with these changes or not, but under a constitutional monarchy the will of the parliament is supreme.
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The last thing the Brazilian Congress does is represent the will of the people .

And there's a huge difference between change the law to guarantee that firstborn, regardless of genders, succeds to the Throne, and change who is the reightful heir to the Throne.

As Prince Antônio always says, "the best Emperor will always be the rightful heir."
 
Today we celebrate the 69th birthday of Her Royal Highness Princess Isabel of Brazil.

Isabel Maria Josefa Henriqueta Micaela Gabriela Rafaela Gonzaga, born in La Bourboule, France, during the Exile of the Brazilian Imperial Family, was the first daughter, and fourth child, of Prince Pedro Henrique (1909-1981), Head of the Imperial House of Brazil, and Princess Maria Elizabeth of Bavaria (1914-2011). Princess Isabel's godmother was her namesake, the Countess of Paris (née Princess Isabel of Orleans-Braganza; 1911-2003).

After the end of WWII, the Imperial Family was finally able to return to Brazil. Initially, they lived in Petrópolis, then moved to Rio de Janeiro. In 1951, Prince Pedro Henrique acquired a farm in Jacarezinho, Paraná, again, moving with his Family.

Princess Isabel studied German and French Languages and Civilizations, at the Universities of Paris and Munich. Returnig to Brazil, in 1966, she worked as Social Worker and was President of the Brazilian Red Cross. In 2004, she was made Honorary Citizen of the State of Rio de Janeiro.

Curently, Princess Isabel is the 9th Line of Succession to the Brazilian Throne. She lives between her apartament in Rio and the Imperial Family's farm in Vassouras (in the State of Rio de Janeiro). Her Royal Highness is unmarried and childless.
 
Government pays tribute to Princess Isabel of Brazil (1846-1921)

Prince Antônio and Princess Cristina represented the Imperial Family during a formal session at the City Council of Rio de Janeiro, on May 13th.

The session was in honor of Prince Antônio's great-grandmother, Isabel (1846-1921), Princess Imperial of Brazil, in 125th Anniversay of the Golden Law, which was signed by Princess Isabel (as Regent, during her father's abscence), ending with Slavery in Brazil.

During the session, Alderman César Maia presented Princess Cristina with a bouquet of camellias. This flower was a symbol of the Brazilian Abolitionist Movement.

Some pictures of the event:

BOLETIM de HISTÓRIA IMPERIAL®: Sessão solene em homenagem Princesa D. Isabel. (Bol. Nº 35 - 13/05 2013)
 

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That's really sweet! Goes to show that the governor still recognizes the family event bough they are no longer reigning. That's great.
 
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I read today that the Portuguese are suffering from the ongoing austerity program, which was put in place to try to save the Euro economy, similarly to Greece's program. Do the Braganzas interest themselves in this debacle? They didn't personally cause it, but what do they think of it?
 
I don't know, Mariel.
 
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Order of Precedence

Order of Precedence in the Imperial House of Brazil, in the House of Orleans-Braganza and in the House of Saxe-Coburg and Braganza

Male Precedence -

(The Head of the Imperial House of Brazil; Emperor de jure)

1. HIRH the Head of the Imperial House of Brazil (b. 1938).

(The Heir Presumptive to the Headship of the Imperial House of Brazil)

2. HIRH the Prince Imperial of Brazil (b. 1941).

(The Head of the Imperial House's brother, with Dynastic rights)

3. HRH Prince Antônio of Brazil (b. 1950).

(The Head of the Imperial House's nephew, with Dynastic rights)

4. HRH Prince Rafael of Brazil (b. 1986).

(The Head of the Imperial House's brother, without Dynastic rights, according to the order of primogeniture)

5. HRH Prince Eudes of Orleans-Braganza (n. 1939).
6. HRH Prince Pedro de Alcântara of Orleans-Braganza (n. 1945).
7. HRH Prince Fernando of Orleans-Braganza (b. 1948).
8. HRH Prince Francisco of Orleans-Braganza (b. 1955).
9. HRH Prince Alberto of Orleans-Braganza (b. 1957).

(The Head of the Imperial House's nephews, without Dynastic rights, according to the order of primogeniture)

10. HRH Prince Luiz Philippe of Orleans-Braganza (b. 1969).
11. HRH Prince Gabriel of Orleans-Braganza (b. 1980).
12. HRH Prince Pedro Alberto of Orleans-Braganza (b. 1988).
13. HRH Prince Antônio Alberto of Orleans-Braganza (b. 1997).

(The Head of the Imperial House's grand-nephews, without Dynastic rights, according to the order of primogeniture)

14. HRH Prince Maximilian of Orleans-Braganza (b. 2012).
15. HRH Prince Gabriel Pedro of Orleans-Braganza (b. 2013).

(The Head of the House of Orleans-Braganza)

16. HRH the Prince of Orleans-Braganza (b. 1945).

(The Heir Apparent to the Headship of the House of Orleans-Braganza)

17. HRH the Hereditary Prince of Orleans-Braganza (b. 1979).

(The youngest son of the Head of the House of Orleans-Braganza)

18. HRH Prince Filipe Rodrigo of Orleans-Braganza (b. 1982).

(The brothers of the Head of the House of Orleans-Braganza, according to the order of primogeniture)

19. HRH Prince Afonso Duarte of Orleans-Braganza (b. 1948).
20. HRH Prince Manuel Álvaro of Orleans-Braganza (b. 1949).
21. HRH Prince Francisco Humberto of Orleans-Braganza (b. 1956).

(The nephews of the Head of the House of Orleans-Braganza, according to the order of primogeniture)

22. HRH Prince Manuel Afonso of Orleans-Braganza (b. 1981).
23. HRH Prince Francisco Teodoro of Orleans-Braganza (b. 1979).

(The first cousin of the Head of the House of Orleans-Braganza)

24. HRH Prince João Henrique of Orleans-Braganza (b. 1954).

(The son of the first cousin of the Head of the House of Orleans-Braganza)

25. HRH Prince João Filipe of Orleans-Braganza (b. 1986).

(The Head of the House of Saxe-Coburg and Braganza)

26. HE Carlos, Freiherr von Taxis di Bordogna e Valnigra (b. 1931).

(The sons of the Head of the House of Saxe-Coburg and Braganza)

27. HE Afonso Carlos, Freiherr von Taxis di Bordogna e Valnigra (b. 1970).
28. HE José, Freiherr von Taxis di Bordogna e Valnigra (b. 1972).
29. HE Antônio, Freiherr von Taxis di Bordogna e Valnigra (b. 1979).

(The grandsons of the Head of the House of Saxe-Coburg and Braganza)

30. HE Taddeo Augusto, Freiherr von Taxis di Bordogna e Valnigra (b. 2011).
31. HE Armando, Freiherr von Taxis di Bordogna e Valnigra (B. 2006).
32. HE Pedro, Freiherr von Taxis di Bordogna e Valnigra (b. 2008).

(The brother of the Head of the House of Saxe-Coburg and Braganza)

33. HE Philippe, Freiherr von Taxis di Bordogna e Valnigra (b. 1939).
 
Order of Precedence

Order of Precedence in the Imperial House of Brazil, in the House of Orleans-Braganza and in the House of Saxe-Coburg and Braganza

Female Precedence -

(The wife of the Head of the Imperial House's brother, with Dynastic rights)

1. HRH Princess Cristina of Brazil (b. 1955).

(The Head of the Imperial House's sisters, with Dynastic rights, according to the order of primogeniture)

2. HRH Princess Isabel of Brazil (b. 1944).
3. HRH the Princess of Ligne (b. 1953).

(The Head of the Imperial House's nieces, with Dynasctic rights, according to the order of primogeniture)

4. HRH Princess Amélia of Brazil (b. 1984).
5. HRH Princess Maria Gabriela of Brazil (b. 1989).

(The wives of the Head of the Imperial House's brothers, without Dynastic rights, according to the order of primogeniture)

6. HRH Princess Fátima of Orleans-Braganza (b. 1952).
7. HRH Princess Graça of Orleans-Braganza (b. 1952).
7. HRH Princess Cláudia of Orleans-Braganza (b. 1954).
8. HRH Princess Maritza of Orleans-Braganza (b. 1961).

(The Head of the Imperial House's sisters, without Dynastic righrs, according to the order of primogeniture)

10. HRH Princess Maria Teresa, Mrs. Hessel de Jong (b. 1959).
11. HRH Princess Maria Gabriela, Mrs. Hungria de Silva Machado (b. 1959).

(The wives of the Head of the Imperial House's nephews, without Dynastic rights, according to the order of primogeniture)

12. HRH Princess Fernanda of Orleans-Braganza (b. 1978).
13. HRH Princess Luciana of Orleans-Braganza (b. 1981).

(The Head of the Imperial House's nieces, without Dynastic rights, according to the order of primogeniture)

14. HRH Princess Anna Luiza, Mrs. Mansour (b. 1971).
15. HRH Princess Maria Pia, Mrs. Broglia Mendes (b. 1975).
16. HRH Princess Maria Carolina, Mrs. Carvalho Moreira (b. 1978).
17. HRH Princess Maria de Fátima of Orleans-Braganza (b. 1988).
18. HRH Princess Maria Manuela of Orleans-Braganza (b. 1989).
19. HRH Princess Isabel, Gräfin zu Stolberg-Stolberg (b. 1978).
20. HRH Princess Maria da Glória of Orleans-Braganza (b. 1982).
21. HRH Princess Luiza Carolina of Orleans-Braganza (b. 1984).
22. HRH Princess Maria Elisabeth, Mrs. Trindade de Souza (b. 1982).
23. HRH Princess Maria Eleonora of Orleans-Braganza (b. 1984).
24. HRH Princess Maria Tereza of Orleans-Braganza (b. 1984).
25. HRH Princess Maria Beatriz of Orleans-Braganza (b. 1990).
26. HRH Princess Ana Thereza of Orleans-Braganza (b. 1995).

(The wives of the brothers of the Head of the House of Orleans-Braganza, according to the order of primogeniture)

27. HRH Princess Sylvia Amélia of Orleans-Braganza (b. 1953).
28. HRH Princess Rita de Cássia of Orleans-Braganza (b. 1961).

(The sisters of the Head of the House of Orleans-Braganza, according to the order of primogeniture)

29. HRH Princess Maria da Glória, Duchess of Sergobe (b. 1946).
30. HRH Princess Cristina, Mrs. Calmon de Britto (b. 1950).

(The nieces of the Head of the House of Orleans-Braganza, according to the order of primogeniture)

31. HRH Princess Maria of Orleans-Braganza (b. 1974).
32. HRH Princess Julia of Orleans-Braganza (b. 1977).
33. HRH Princess Luiza Cristina of Orleans-Braganza (b. 1978).
34. HRH Princess Gabrielle of Orleans-Braganza (b. 1989).
35. HRH Princess Manuela of Orleans-Braganza (b. 1997).

(The wife of the deceased uncle of the Head of the House of Orleans-Braganza)

36. HRH Princess Tereza of Orleans-Braganza (b. 1929).

(The daughter of the first cousin of the Head of the House of Orleans-Braganza)

37. HRH Princess Maria Cristina of Orleans-Braganza (b. 1989).

(The wife of the Head of the House of Saxe-Coburg and Braganza)

38. HIRH Archduchess Walburga, Freifrau von Taxis di Bordogna e Valnigra (b. 1942).

(The wives of the sons of the Head of the House of Saxe-Coburg and Braganza, according to the order of primogeniture)

39. HE Charlotte, Freifrau von Taxis di Bordogna e Valnigra (b. 1972).
40. HE Gabrielle, Freifrau von Taxis di Bordogna e Valnigra (b. 1977).

(The daughters of the Head of the House of Saxe-Coburg and Braganza)

41. HE Teresa Cristina Hunt, Freifrau von Taxis di Bordogna e Valnigra (b. 1971).
42. HE Maria Leopoldina Pavone, Freifrau von Taxis di Bordogna e Valnigra (b. 1974).
43. HE Carolina Delcourt, Freifrau von Taxis di Bordogna e Valnigra (b. 1976).
44. HE Maria Aparecida, Freiin von Taxis di Bordogna e Valnigra (b. 1985).

(The granddaughters of the Head of the House of Saxe-Coburg and Braganza)

45. HE Pia Maria, Freiin von Taxis di Bordogna e Valnigra (b. 2004).

(The wife of the brother of the Head of the House of Saxe-Coburg and Braganza)

46. HE Anna Maria, Freifrau von Taxis di Bordogna e Valnigra (b. 1946).

(The sisters of the Head of the House of Saxe-Coburg and Braganza)

47. HE Alice Carolina, Contessa Formentini de Tolmino e Biglia (b. 1936).
48. HE Maria Cristia Dettori, Freifrau von Taxis di Bordogna e Valnigra (b. 1945).
 
:previous:
I've noticed you do not have listed the second wife of Prince Eudes, Mercedes, and their children Maria Antonia, Maria Francisca and Guy. Is it that because Eudes and Mercedes aren't married religiously and thus she and their children aren't regrarded as members of the Imperial Family?
 
MAfan said:
:previous:
I've noticed you do not have listed the second wife of Prince Eudes, Mercedes, and their children Maria Antonia, Maria Francisca and Guy. Is it that because Eudes and Mercedes aren't married religiously and thus she and their children aren't regrarded as members of the Imperial Family?
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They would never be members of the Imperial Family, because Prince Eudes ceased to be a Prince of Brazil when he renounced his Dynastic rights, in 1966. His Royal Highness is "just" a Prince of Orleans-Braganza.

But yes, the exclusion of Mrs. Mercedes de Orleans e Bragança and her descendents from the Order of Precedence is because she and Prince Eudes haven't married religiously.

Their marriage wasn't recognized by Prince Eudes' father, Prince Pedro Henrique, then the Head of the Imperial House, nor by the late Prince Pedro Gastão of Orleans-Braganza, who, by the time, was the Head of the House of Orleans-Braganza.

Mrs. Mercedes de Orleans e Bragança and her children never received any title.

Also, MAfan, Prince Eudes and Mrs. Mercedes have four children, not three.:flowers:

1. Mr. Eudes de Orleans e Bragança (b. 1977).

2. Mrs. Maria Francisca Almeida Braga Ratto (neé de Orleans e
Bragança; b. 1979).

3. Mrs. Maria Antônia de Carvalho Moreira (neé de Orleans e Bragança; b. 1979).

4. Mr. Guy de Orleans e Bragança (b. 1985).
 
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If one has a royal person who marries a commoner, the royal line continues, as in the case of several European monarchies at present. The desire to continue to have royal to royal marriages is not beneficial. I have been reading of the weakness which came into the Scottish and English royal family because of this worship of "dynastic" marriages. Of course some of them were annulled on the excuse that the partners were too closely related (had a common ancestor) as in the case of Eleanor of Aquitaine and (I think) King Henry II of England. It's hard to keep these many Henry's straight. The Brazilian royal family might gain support for restoration if the heir married a high quality young lady, well educated and supportive, like the Duchess of Cambridge. I am not particularly fond of the Cambridges, but I see Catherine as a "quality" person, better educated than many royals, although these days, young royals do get extensive education. High quality (education, moral attitude, good health) is more important than dynasty, but the dynastic line continues in cases such as the Cambridges, Mary and Fred, and others. And as you say, Brazillian, Princess Alexandra of Lux is considered a good dynastic candidate in spite of having a commoner mother of high quality. why not the same situation for other heirs?

I have wondered about the closeness of kinship between Guillaume and Stephanie. I think it is distant, but I"m not sure. It is this kind of marriage which could bring a compromise to the dynastic situation. As usual, the Lux people "get it right." Their intelligence level must be high, and by that I don't just mean IQ, but common sense and wisdom.
 
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