HRH Prince Emanuele Filiberto, Princess Clotilde and Family 6: March 2010-2022


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An article in today's New York Times about Princess Vittoria of Italy.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/09/world/europe/italy-house-of-savoy-royalty.html

Some intersting quotes. They also interviewed the Aosta-branch, who does not approve of the elevation of Vittoria as heiress of the family. Or in the words of the Prince of Venice:

He scorns cousins who, he said, were never important enough to even exile, and who, having failed in their efforts to supplant his father and him, were now targeting his daughter.

“They were thinking that me, not having any sons, they would finally have what they were waiting for, for 150 years,” but his father foiled their plans.

“They got screwed,” he said. “And they got pissed.”
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A local historian thinks that the elevation has to do with money, as the head of the family can bestow titles/orders on those who are willing to pay - something I suspected was the reason for the Castro-debacle a few years ago. Note that this was denied by the prince of Venice in the article.
 
Marengo said:
A local historian thinks that the elevation has to do with money...
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How bourgeoise! :lol:

But I wonder, how much money one can make by selling dubious titles.

Anyway: Thank you for linking this article, Marengo! Very informative!
 
Very interesting this part:


The Savoias, like newly enlightened non-despots, insist that money has nothing to do with it and that they have only high-minded motivations for changing the order of succession, like embracing European Union values and boosting women’s rights. Emanuele Filiberto is currently creating a Crown-like series about his grandmother, Queen Marie-José.
“Totally antifascist,” he said.
“A great antifascist,” echoed Vittoria, who called her a role model.
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Marengo said:
A local historian thinks that the elevation has to do with money, as the head of the family can bestow titles/orders on those who are willing to pay - something I suspected was the reason for the Castro-debacle a few years ago. Note that this was denied by the prince of Venice in the article.
Click to expand...

IMO all these "pretender fights" happen because of money, benefits, advantages. And of course they wouldn't admit it :D.

And it's always like that, when there are no male available or there are only daughter, people suddenly remember gender equality ;).
 
I think the proclamation of Vittoria as heir of the Savoy family is a great example for a new modern dynasty. I think the Salic law be repealed. Nowadays it is right that there is gender equality.

Others articles about Princess Vittoria:

https://www.nbarevolution.com/linfl...ni-e-la-nuova-erede-al-defunto-trono-ditalia/

https://it.yahoo.com/style/tutto-su-vittoria-figlia-di-143000528.html

https://it.notizie.yahoo.com/chi-e-...le-filiberto-star-del-web-foto-115600716.html

https://it.notizie.yahoo.com/vittoria-figlia-di-emanuele-filiberto-064032341.html

https://www.latribuna.sm/linfluence...assettenne-e-lerede-al-defunto-trono-ditalia/

https://www.veneziaradiotv.it/blog/donna-capo-casato-savoia/

Others articles about Princess Vittoria of Savoy:

https://www.corriere.it/esteri/21_m...ta-1faeef7c-b1ae-11eb-97b4-aa5e7b1c1388.shtml

https://www.radiomontecarlo.net/new...il-trono-che-non-c-e-e-il-new-york-times.html

https://www.ilpost.it/2021/05/10/savoia-new-york-times/

https://gossip.fanpage.it/vittoria-...-a-guidare-i-savoia-ma-e-scontro-in-famiglia/

https://www.vanityfair.it/people/it...anuele-filiberto-aspirante-regina-foto-gossip
 
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victor1319 said:
How bourgeoise! :lol:

But I wonder, how much money one can make by selling dubious titles.

Anyway: Thank you for linking this article, Marengo! Very informative!
Click to expand...




I don't have any proof that they "sell titles" as you claim, but the Savoy orders are very active and frequently awarded. Even in North America, there are many recipients. Some of the Savoy orders, of course, like the Order of the Most Holy Annunciation or the Order of the Saints Maurice and Lazarus, are part of the cultural heritage of Europe (dating back to the Middle Ages) and it is a shame that they are not recognized by the Italian Republic.


On the question of "dubious titles", honors such as orders of chivalry or titles of nobility currently can normally be conferred exclusively by a head of state as a legitimate “Fount of Honors” (in Latin, Fons Honorum), or by authority of the same. Generally speaking, private organizations or individuals can no longer award nobility or knighthood independently of a sovereign state, although international law normally recognizes the right specifically of heads of non-reigning (deposed) royal houses to continue to award orders of chivalry that were bestowed by their dynastic ancestors as sovereign monarchs since such honors proceed from a legitimate Fons Honorum that was not extinguished with the disappearance of the respective monarchy. That holds even in situations where the republics that succeeded the defunct monarchy do not recognize the former royal honors in their domestic law, but it does not extend, in my humble opinion, to the creation by heads of non-reigning royal houses of new honors after the end of the monarchy since, as private individuals, they no longer possess the prerogative of Fons Honorum.


If you apply the standard in my previous paragraph, the Savoy pretender has a legitimate right to award orders that existed prior to the creation of the Italian Republic such as the Annunziata, the order of the Saints Maurice and Lazarus, or the Civil Order of Savoy. I don't think he has the legitimacy, however, to create new orders such as the Order of Merit of the House of Savoy (which apparently replaced the Order of the Crown of Italy), or to bestow titles of nobility. Again, that is just my opinion; I know legitimists disagree and believe that heads of non-reigning royal houses are still Founts of Honors in their own right.
 
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Mbruno said:
I don't have any proof that they "sell titles" as you claim...
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Oh, I was just repeating, what the article of the NY Times (see post #891) and in that one a certain historian were claiming. Is this trustworthy, this claim? Well, that is, why I was wondering, how much monies can be made with the selling of such "honors".

(If I look back to The Godfather - Part Three.... with this title from the Vatican for Michael Corleone, then a lot...:D )

I hope, this clarifies my post at least. And thank you for yours - I learned something from it.
 
Marengo said:
A local historian thinks that the elevation has to do with money, as the head of the family can bestow titles/orders on those who are willing to pay - something I suspected was the reason for the Castro-debacle a few years ago. Note that this was denied by the prince of Venice in the article.
Click to expand...
W.Y.CII said:
IMO all these "pretender fights" happen because of money, benefits, advantages. And of course they wouldn't admit it :D.
Click to expand...

At the same time, it is interesting that the monetary motives of men who insist on male-only or male-preferred inheritance are never subject to the same scrutiny.

In this case, the pretender fight was incited by the Aosta branch. The Savoy succession was not seriously disputed until Amedeo of Savoy-Aosta made himself a claimant in 2006. Likewise, there was no dispute over the headship of the royal house of Bourbon-Two Sicilies until Infante Alfonso of Spain, the founder of the Calabria branch, elevated himself as pretender to the defunct throne of the Two Sicilies in 1960.

W.Y.CII said:
And it's always like that, when there are no male available or there are only daughter, people suddenly remember gender equality ;).
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Didn't the head of the Saxe-Weimar-Eisenach family prefer to see his family go extinct rather than let the headship pass to his daughter? And even when the late King of Romania had only daughters, he decided to implement male-preference succession rather than gender equality. I agree it is disappointing that many male heads of families only remember gender equality when they fail to produce a son, but at least it sets a precedent.



The article by Jason Horowitz in the New York Times seems to be making the rounds on social media and discussion boards as "evidence" of the supposed stupidity of the Savoys in allowing girls to be heiresses, but after having read the full article, my opinion is that the writer's obvious skepticism is generally about the pretension of fighting for an imaginary crown, not about granting women equal rights to lead the family.

I think the reason that the bulk of the unflattering remarks are from or about the senior Savoy branch is that the Savoy-Aosta branch refused to grant an extended face-to-face interview, unlike their cousins. The article characterizes both branches as practicing "royal condescension" and describes the board supporting the Aostas as "unsanctioned".

In the current fight over Vittoria, the Aosta have turned to an unsanctioned “Board of the Senators’ Council in the Kingdom,” also known as “The Consulta.” Referring to House of Savoy bylaws, the Aosta sympathizers deemed Vittoria’s ascension invalid. Among other things, they argue the law should only be changed when the monarchy is restored.

Prince Aimone, Duke of Puglia, declined to meet for an interview in the Tuscan country estate of his father, Prince Amedeo, Duke of Aosta, who was reportedly punched twice in the face by his cousin, Vittorio Emanuele, at the 2004 wedding of the future King Felipe VI of Spain. Soon after that altercation, Amedeo claimed to be the legitimate Duke of Savoy.

“To put it mildly, it is not a good relationship,” Aimone said in a phone interview. But he said he wanted to avoid a public shouting match with his cousins “over something that doesn’t exist. I try to be more dignified if possible given the great responsibility of such a name.”

Regal condescension runs in the family.
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I think it is important to stress, as I wrote in another forum, that Prince Vittorio Emanuele has not changed the order of succession to the throne of the Kingdom of Italy, which no longer exists and which neither he nor his son is currentlly claiming as far as I know. Instead, he has proposed a change to the succession to the headship of the House of Savoy, which is separate from occupying the throne of Italy and implies a series of prerogatives that, as Marengo said, may have financial implications, including the grand mastership of the Savoy orders.



The succession to the Italian throne was regulated by the Albertine Statute which could not be changed unilaterally by the King when it was in force (again, it ceased to be in force with the creation of the Italian Republic). The succession to the position of head of the (1,000-year-old) House of Savoy, on the other hand, is governed by the house laws, so it is that body of rules that we must look at to decide whether the Savoy-Aosta claim is valid or not.
 
Addapalla said:
As one can see in the appalling NYT interview of the older daughter Vittoria, she presented herself as a shallow, vain and tactless air-head who lacks refinement if not dignity. Very much like her father and her grandfather, it seems.
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The statements made by Vittoria di Savoia in the New York Times interview of her and her father were the following. (Please do not hesitate to inform me if I have committed any inadvertent omissions.)

“It [the amendment of the succession] was the best gift he could give me,” Vittoria [said].

“A great antifascist,” echoed Vittoria, who called her [Queen Marie-José] a role model.

Vittoria, when asked whether she thought Italy was ready to have her as a queen, or head of the family, said she had heard “Italy is not really progressive.” “But” she added, “they will learn.”

When asked if she wanted to be Italy’s queen, she called the concept “abstract” and said she is just trying to figure out what she wants to do in life.

“I don’t want to seem different,” she said. “I’m Vittoria.”

“I don’t even pay any attention to it,” Vittoria said of her detractors.

“It's [the responsibility is] a lot,” she said.
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The full interview:
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/09/world/europe/italy-house-of-savoy-royalty.html

One can see and evaluate for oneself whether the statements are "appalling".
 
Who is the lady in green? Looks like she is a godmother or something comparable.
 
Somebody said:
Who is the lady in green? Looks like she is a godmother or something comparable.
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I found it a bit awkward that the godmother had to upheld a tag with "Laura" so that the Bishop knew her name.

At my confirmation I went forward to the Bishop and my godfather presented me after which the Bishop repeated the name while putting Chrism on my forehead and "be sealed with the Holy Spirit".

Maybe it is a Covid measure. The mumbling through the facemask is probably not audible for the Bishop and they decided to have each confirmant with a name tag.
 
 
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Princess Clotilde arrives for the 74th annual Cannes Film Festival at Nice Airport on 9 in Nice

https://media.gettyimages.com/photos...e-id1327788113
https://media.gettyimages.com/photo...th-annual-cannes-film-at-picture-id1327788083
https://media.gettyimages.com/photo...th-annual-cannes-film-at-picture-id1327788095


and later attend the "Benedetta" screening during the 74th annual Cannes Film Festival

https://media.gettyimages.com/photos...e-id1327840440
https://media.gettyimages.com/photos...e-id1327840089
https://media.gettyimages.com/photo...aul-verhoeven-attend-the-picture-id1327840368
https://media.gettyimages.com/photo...aul-verhoeven-attend-the-picture-id1327840173


https://www.rexfeatures.com/livefee...tilde Courau&folder=74th Cannes Film Festival

Princess Clotilde at the 'Benedetta' photocall, in 74th Cannes Film Festival today 10 July

https://www.rexfeatures.com/livefee...th_cannes_film_festival?celeb=Clotilde Courau

https://www.gettyimages.com/search/2/image?events=775677272&family=editorial&editorialproducts=all
 
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Clotilde (pictured with Maxime Roy, French screenwriter and director) attended the Kering Women In Motion Awards as part of the Cannes Film Festival yesterday, July 11:


** gettyimages gallery **
 
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Front page of Point de vue with an interview of Emanuele Filiberto .
On old picture of him and Clotilde.
He speaks about his friendship with Johnny Halliday , about tue Duc of Aoste and mainly about the future of his Girls.
From Noblesse et Royautés , very bad critics !
 
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:previous:

What do you mean? I'm slightly confused. I did not write anything about the cover but about the article shared on their website.
 
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