Haemophilia In European Royalty

[Furienna]

I don't like to use the word "mutation", as it has such a negative ring to it, but yes, it seems like it started with Queen Victoria.

 

[Nice Nofret]

how would you call a mutation .. by a "nicer" word, I wonder?

(why is it not allowed to call a thing what it is ... political correctness? ...don't care about that much)

 

[Furienna]

You're right, I should have explained myself better. In this case, when it's a disease, I guess the word "mutation" is fine. But I don't like it, when it's used about positive changes, or even neutral changes, within a spieces, like how the elephans got their long trunks or the giraffs got their long necks. I don't think "mutation" is the right word for that, even though it's often used that way. A mutation is something bad, and nothing good or even neutral, in my opinion. But we're getting off topic here...

 

[figtreecrossing]

how about "the structure of Queen Victoria's gene was changed"
Sorry.. couldn't resist it.. *smile*
Everyone understands

 

[PrincessKaimi]

When a disease is caused by a point mutation in the genes, it is proper to call it a mutation. This distinguishes the disease as a particular kind of genetic disorder. There are two main kinds of mutations: ones in somatic cells (your regular body cells, sometimes leading to disease) and ones in sex cells (eggs or sperm) which are then present in every cell in the resulting infant's body and passed on to their offspring The latter kind can be spontaneous or inherited.

But is certainly proper to refer to diseases caused by genetic mutations by their proper term.

Mutations can be good or neutral, although it is rare. Perfect pitch is often considered a good thing. Some deaf people consider genetic forms of deafness to be a good thing. Some people are able to see things in motion much better than others - that's often considered good by athletes. And there's even a mutation for the immune system that protects against HIV - most people agree it's a good thing (and has been around for 500 years or more).

 

[vittoria]

A genetic mutation can actually be a positive. It could confer resistance to certain diseases or other positive adaptations. In other words, viewing the word "mutation" as a negative is something that is not done in scientific circles and shouldn't be done by the public.

 

[PrincessKaimi]

Yes, Vittoria, exactly. We hear more about negative mutations (and there's no clear way to study good mutations, actually - medical doctors focus on disease, people with extra abilities don't pop into the local clinic for gene testing). But mutations are what make us what we are - blue eyes are a complex set of mutations it turns out, from the original brown eyed gene pool (etc.) Neither brown eyes nor blues eyes are "better," there can be advantages to either.

 

[Furienna]

Yep, after doing some research after I opened this can of worms, I've actually found out, that it's not wrong to call a good or neutral change in the genes "a mutation". But since the word is mostly used for negative changes, I went along with that.

 

[XeniaCasaraghi]

Just to clarify if anyone knows, has Victoria's hemophilia been "bred out" of the royal families of Europe?

 

[fearghas]

Just to clarify if anyone knows, has Victoria's hemophilia been "bred out" of the royal families of Europe?

Perhaps and perhaps not. There have been no 100 per cenr positive recorded cases. Many of the lines with the disease have died out (eg Russia). It is possible that it may still be ine xistance amonmgst the desendants of Princess Victoria Eugenie, Queen of Spain through her daughters but they are very private people (non royals) and so it probably wouldnt come out in the media. Alsi it is thought that a child of Princess Xeia of Hohenlohe Langeburg may have it. Inherited through her father Furst Kraft but as far as I know it hasn't been proven.

 

[nascarlucy]

I would imagine due to the marriages of commoners and individuals who don't have a lot of royal blood in their veins, that this gene has probably been weaken to the point where if someone did have it, it's of a milder form of it. It's possible some royal households don't have this gene.

It's understandable due to security concerns and the safety of the individual that if a male royal had haemophilia or had it in a milder form that this would not be broadcast to the public.

 

[COUNTESS]

There is no such thing as royal blood. All blood is the same. This concept is flawed. Intermarriage was the problem, you shorten the gene pool. You have the same problems in families in the hills of Tennessee, where intermarriage was prevalent.

 

[Lumutqueen]

There is no such thing as royal blood. All blood is the same.

Royals have blue blood, didn't you know

 

[Iluvbertie]

There is no such thing as royal blood. All blood is the same. This concept is flawed. Intermarriage was the problem, you shorten the gene pool. You have the same problems in families in the hills of Tennessee, where intermarriage was prevalent.

If intermarriage was the problem why does it appear for the first time in families where there has been no intermarriage - e.g. a Vietnamese boy I know who mother was Vietnamese but his father was Serbian with neither parent's family having any other cases - but both sons have it - nothing to do with intermarriage.

 

[Furienna]

Of course, not every case of heamophilia is due to to inbreeding. But it was spread to many royal houses because Queen Victoria's children and grandchildren carried the gene.

 

[fearghas]

Of course, not every case of heamophilia is due to to inbreeding. But it was spread to many royal houses because Queen Victoria's children and grandchildren carried the gene.

But that wasnt due to inbreeding. People state that Haemophilia in the royal families was the fault of invreeding but they dont know what they are talking about. Alix of Hesse could have married an aboriginal man from Australia an there would have been just as high a chance that any sons would have the disease.


It was spread to the other royals through the intermarriage of QVs children and grandchildren, just as it would have done within a viallage or town if they hadn't been royal.

 

[XeniaCasaraghi]

I agree hemophilia was not caused by inbreeding. It was a mutation started with Victoria and spread through her children and grandchildren. I don't recall reading that any of the children who had hemophilia were results of inbreeding. Also although Victoria and Albert were second cousins, it still seems that the disease was spread by Victoria and not Albert.
I wonder if some of the Hapsburg mythology and facts is mixing with Victoria which causes people to think that hemophilia was caused by inbreeding.

 

[fearghas]

You could be right about the Habsburg mythology. That is often the example that is brought up against inbreeding, as if a situation that bad happens all the time, ignoring the fact that it was 4 or five generations of VERY close inbreeding (including a couple of uncle.niece marriages) that resulted in the unfortunate Emperer.

re QV and Haemophillia. I suspect that if there hadn't of been the tumoltous resulolts of the first World war, ie the russian royal family hadn't been slaughtered we might have seen inbreeding causing haemophilia problems when the gran duchess's and their daughters remarried back into other european families. It could have been possible for one of the OTMA girls, a potential carrier, marrying one of the sons of Prince Heinrich of prussia, in that case a double dose of the haemophilia gene would have been imparted to their children, with the possible reult of a daughter with haemophilia. If that had happened then we could rightly say that inbreeding caused genetic defects in that potential person.

 

[Iluvbertie]

Victoria and Albert were actually first cousins - Victoria's mother and Albert's father were brother and sister.

 

[Iluvbertie]

I am sure that I have read that when they discovered the bodies they tested them and realised that one or two of the girls were in fact carriers but I can't remember which ones or where I read it.

 

[fearghas]

I am sure that I have read that when they discovered the bodies they tested them and realised that one or two of the girls were in fact carriers but I can't remember which ones or where I read it.

I hadnt heard of that and it would be interesting to know which girls were.

 

[Meraude]

I hadnt heard of that and it would be interesting to know which girls were.

It was either Maria (according to American researchers) or Anastasia (according to Russian researchers), depending on whose body it was that was found near the body of Alexei, from Wikipedia. For more info: Case Closed: Famous Royals Suffered From Hemophilia - ScienceNOW

 

[Furienna]

True, it doesn't seem like the haemophilia came about because of inbreeding. But many royal houses were still affected by it because of intermarriages.

 

[PaulaB]

It started with Queen Victoria either a mutation in her genes or her father's sperm. It spread throughout europe because Victoria was the grandmother of europe in other words her decendents married throughout the houses of europe (incluiding spain)

 

[XeniaCasaraghi]

Yes I mispoke and meant first cousins. Not only were their parents brother and sister, but they shared an uncle who was King of Belgium. I believe I recall reading that a long with the Hapsburg chin there was also mental illness that sprung up within a few of their blood lines.
I don't recall hearing that it had been confirmed that one of Alexandra's daughters was a carrier but I wouldn't be shocked if one or two were. The last time I checked there was just speculation that Maria was the carrier because during a surgery she bled a lot apparently more than usual. I think she might have had her tonsils removed or a wisdom tooth pulled out, I can't remember.

Has anyone heard of Alexei's bones (especially his legs) showed deformities which might have been caused by his bleeding episodes.

 

[Suzzanah]

Genetic Markers

I have spent some time studying the genetic affects in the royal bloodlines of various places. As within all populations these genotypes result in certain affects and visual consequences. The list is a long list. But here are a short few:
Legs of unequal length specifically the tibia bone
Eye coIor that seems to changes from black to brown to green with age especially in women
Hair color that seems to darken with age
Hemophilia
CRP blood factors
Low blood pressure
Low cholesterol especially among the Spanish and Italians
Large legs and thighs especially in the Eastern block
Anemia common in the fair skinned royals
Reflux in the German block royals
Sleep disorders
Allergies
Asthmas related to allergies
Lack of pigmentation of skin
A missing permanent tooth in the upper set or anomolous number of teeth
Small lower jaw

 

[PrincessKaimi]

Fascinating list, Suzzanah (and welcome to the Royal Forums). I have been looking at various lines of mostly English and French royalty and their intermarriages with each other post-1066. Amazing how the same set of families intermarry over the generations, bringing the chances of homozygous recessive traits to a higher level. Reflux in the German block royals is a very interesting one.

Anomalous number of teeth is almost always a recessive trait.

 

[Grandduchess24]

Hemophilia was mostly known because of the decendents if Queen Victoria via grandchildren and great-grandchildren
Princess Alice(carrier)> princess Irene of Hesse and by Rhine and czarina Alexandra fyodorovna(carrier)> hemophilic sons
Prince leopold(hemophiliac)> hemophiliac grandsons
Princess Beatrice (carrier)>hemophiliac son

 

[Benedict XVI]

Does anyone know where the hemophilia came from? And who was the first European monarch to reportedly have the disease.

 

[Iluvbertie]

Queen Victoria's youngest son was the first that I have heard of - Prince Leopold.

There are therefore three ways it could have come into her family -
1. someone other than The Duke of Kent was her father to pass the damaged chromosone to her or
2. her mother was a carrier of the disease or
3. spontaneious mutation at Victoria's conception.

To me the most logical is the third one.

I know of no monarch as such who had it - but Queen Victoria had two daughters who passed it to their daughters and from their it came into the Russian and Spanish royal families.