German Restoration?

[Cory]

Prince George of Prussia is not a republican anyway.

 

[SchwarzerAdler]

The problem concerning this whole issue is NOT that in Germany the people don`t want Monarchy, the problem is that MOST people don`t have a clue what Monarchy and the relating FACTS is all about. We face a threatening loss of value and the only value that is cerished is consuming - as it is in nearly all European and western influenced countries. They know the price of everything and they don`t know the worth of anything.
People stick to their prejudices and one concercing Monarchy is that it would be to expensive, what is nonsense when you make the effort to compare figures.
People think Monarchy and democracy are excluding one another without recognizing that several European democracies are Monarchies.
In the end watching "Germanys next Top Model" or similar TV shows is more important than thinking over political problems (of which do exist a lot more today than the issue of having a Monarchy).
But IF people would look closer to Monarchies (and the effects in countries in Europe that are one) and to the republic that exists in Germany today they definitly would see that this republic is NOT the successful country one of the previour forists wrote. History of the republic in Germany at a closer look shows corruption (in moral not unlawful way), advantage taking, inefficieny and disgraceful connections between politicians and lobbyists of nearly every government whether on federal or state level since 1945.

 

[COUNTESS]

And before 1945, what did you have, just ask most of the world.

 

[Blog Real]

Restored monarchy gains young Germans' support - The Local

 

[Blog Real]

There is still some support for a monarchical restoration in Germany?

 

[Tilia C.]

NO. Not at all. At least there is no support for the return of the monarchy that I have ever perceived, and I have lived in Germany all my life. The german monarchists are a tiny, tiny minority with no support from the wide majority at all. You would have to search for them with a looking glass. In all my live I have never met even one person who would support the monarchy.

 

[Blog Real]

And what is the royal family's position on the subject?

 

[lucien]

And what is the royal family's position on the subject?

Realistic....a rare word in the world these days it seems,but they are.
They would only consider the Throne if there was a wide support,meaning a majority.But that's daydreaming,it will never happen.In general the Germans just like to get a wiff of other Monarchies in their magazines and such...With the Dutch being the favorite..

 

[Tilia C.]

In short, Kaiser Bill messed it up, and now Germans are happy with the Republik. Bringing back a lost monarchy seems neither realistic nor practical.

Of course there are many Germans who admire the still existing monarchies, but that is a different thing. Other royal houses managed the transition to democracy and constitutional monarchy well, and are now successful and popular. But you can't turn back the wheel of time. Once a monarchy is gone, the continuity and tradition are dirupted. I don't think that a revival of a German monarchy would ever work.

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

The monarchy in Germany has an extra handicap: the Kaiserzeit only lasted a couple of decades. Dozens of Kings, Princes, Electors, Dukes, Margraves, Bishops, etc. have ruled the many territories which formed three loose Empires (Holy Roman Empire, Deutsche Bund, the Kaiserzeit). The territories of the former Reich have been fragmented over today's Germany, Poland, Czech Republic, Hungary, Romania, etc.). Some territories see themselves merged into Bundesländer like Nordrhein-Westfalen or Niedersachsen. If there is any country where a restoration of the monarchy is arch-difficult, it is Germany.

 

[Nice Nofret]

I'm all for Queen Merkel ...


...

as others have allready pointed out: highly unlikly for Germany

 

[Tilia C.]

She has no children, so that would be a short dynasty!
Besides Mrs. Angela Merkel is the head of the government, the equivalent of David Carmeron. She is not the head of the state, like the queen. And she'd probably never be able to keep her hands out of politics, as it is expected of a good Queen in the 21st century.

 

[Nice Nofret]

.. i was jocking ..

 

[Tilia C.]

I thought so! Sorry if my answer sounded too serious.

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

I thought the late Richard von Weizsäcker was almost like a royal. A very serene and dignified President he was.

 

[KitKat2006]

That's a nice idea. I liked Richard von Weizsäcker a lot. He was a great man and as a “Freiherr“ he was even a member of the former german nobility. King Richard of Germany has a nice ring to it. And it would have been a continueing dynasty unlike the Merkel-Dynasty, because “King Richard“ has four children. Three sons (although one died already) and one daughter.

Unfortunatly this is all daydreaming, because Germany will never be a monarchy again for all the previously mentioned reasons. But one can still dream.

 

[Frozen Royalist]

From what I gathered at in the news lately, only about 25% seem to support the idea of having an Emperor/King of Germany again. Better than most countries but it doesn't help when the Kaiser's great great grandson is against the idea plus the laws of the Federal Republic.

-Frozen Royalist

 

[Countessmeout]

From what I gathered at in the news lately, only about 25% seem to support the idea of having an Emperor/King of Germany again. Better than most countries but it doesn't help when the Kaiser's great great grandson is against the idea plus the laws of the Federal Republic.

-Frozen Royalist

The movement is most popular among youth where 20% are in favor of a monarchy. It goes down from there as you go up in age. And having the Prussian crown prince say he has absolutely no interest in politics, isn't helping the situation. I guess if there was real desire to restore the throne, the offer could be made to one of the other male dynasts, like his Uncle Christian who is 4th in line (if they didn't want to wait till one of George's sons was an adult). The argument could be made that his father's older brothers who lost their place in succession to Prusia, have a better claim, and their claim be restored.

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

There was never "a German monarchy". There were dozens of German monarchies. Many of these have made good legal and financial arrangements with the Länder (the successors to the principalities). For an example the state of Bavaria still pays millions in allowances to the former royal family, as well arrangements for using former royal residences (for an example the current Duke of Bavaria has a lavish appartment in the sprawling Schloss Nymphenburg in Munich).

And many former royal families have made good arrangements, as one can see with many former royals still preserving their castles, heritage, collections, jewels, etc. Many if them living a lavish life in Marbella, Saint-Tropez or Ibiza as well.

Restoration is the most difficult in Germany. The Land Mecklenburg-Vorpommern back to a Duchy of Mecklenburg? But what with the original Prussian parts of Pommern? Splitting the Land Nordhrein-Westfalen into a dozen principalities again? And that in wealthy and mighty Germany? Falling back in Kleinstaaterei? It will not happen.

 

[Frozen Royalist]

I suppose I should've just reworded my previous post, about 25% of Germany would like to have a King/Emperor again, I suppose this just means that it should just be one dynasty in the whole country rather than a simple federation of German monarchies like the 1871-1918 one. Honestly at this point, if there ever is a restoration ever, it would be between either the Hohenzollerns, because they were the Prussian/German Imperial Royal Family after all, or the Wittelsbachs, because they at least have a rather good reputation and history.

-Frozen Royalist

 

[Frozen Royalist]

Okay considering how the Prince William and Duchess Kate wedding resulted in some increased support in restoration Germany how do you think the wedding between Prince Harry and Meghan Markle will affect the German monarchy restoration movement? More support? Less support? Or just the same amount of support?

I should note the purpose of this post is to get predictions, not the usual one fifth of youths support blah blah blah and so on. Just predict.

-Frozen Royalist

 

[Pranter]

I figure those who are pro-monarchy will continue to be pro-monarchy...those who are anti-monarchy will continue to be anti-monarchy. Very few of the fence sitters will care.


LaRae

 

[Kronprinz]

I would love to see a restoration of course but it's unlikely.

I think Wilhelm II didn't go down well in history and that plays a part. To this day he comes across as authoritarian and a bit of a mad man. I'd say most Germans still blame him for the defeat in the First World War and that has huge implications.

However, President Woodrow Wilson suggested the monarchy be kept in German under a reformed constitution.

The Emperor should have stayed out of politics during the war and should have distanced himself a bit from the military operations. He should have played George V's role and that was all.

 

[Mbruno]

There was never "a German monarchy". There were dozens of German monarchies.

Technically, the Second German Empire was actually a federation of monarchies, so there were multiple kings (of Bavaria, Württemberg, Saxony) and many other sovereign princes (grand dukes, dukes, etc.) under the German emperor, who was also of course the king of Prussia.

There is still some support for a monarchical restoration in Germany?

Near zero chance IMHO.

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

[....]

The Emperor should have stayed out of politics during the war and should have distanced himself a bit from the military operations. He should have played George V's role and that was all.

In contrary to the Anglo-American cartoonesque imago of the Kaiser being an all-powerful dictatorial madman, he was pretty as sidelined as his cousin George V.

During WW I Germany was essentially governed by a military junta. The Oberste Heeresleitung (Supreme Army Command) held the reins of power. Of course the officers' ranks of the Heer, the Kriegsmarine and the Luftwaffe were full with aristocrats. That is also why the ruling class (royals and nobles) fell so deep in Germany, Austria and Russia, after (then) the biggest bloodshed ever in human history.

The ultimate "Chief" of all this was the Emperor. And the saying goes: the higher someone is, the deeper the fall. This was not justified. The Oberste Heeresleitung took all power over the armed forces, the economy, etc. and degraded the Reichstag (Parliament) and the Kaiser (Emperor) to powerless rubber-stamps of their Militardiktatur.

The real Emperors were the Generalstabchefs of the Oberste Heeresleitung, all were aristocrats: Helmut von Moltke, Erich von Falkenhayn and Paul von Hindenburg.

 

[Mbruno]

In contrary to the Anglo-American cartoonesque imago af the Kaiser being an all-powerful dictatorial madman, he was pretty as sidelined as his cousin George V.

During WW I Germany was essentially governed by a military junta. The Oberste Heeresleitung (Supreme Army Command) held the reins of power. Of course the officers' ranks of the Heer, the Kriegsmarine and the Luftwaffe were full with aristocrats. That is also why the ruling class (royals and nobles) fell so deep in Germany, Austria and Russia, after (then) the biggest bloodshed ever in human history.

The ultimate "Chief" of all this was the Emperor. And the saying goes: the higher someone is, the deeper the fall. This was not justified. The Oberste Heeresleitung took all power over the armed forces, the economy, etc. and degraded the Reichstag (Parliament) and the Kaiser (Emperor) to powerless rubber-stamps of their Militardiktatur.

The real Emperors were the Generalstabchefs of the Oberste Heerssleitung, all were aristocrats: Helmut von Moltke, Erich von Falkenhayn and Paul von Hindenburg.

I agree in part that Anglo-American accounts at the time tended to exaggerate the Kaiser's role in the war. However, I don't think his position could have ever been comparable to George V' s. For starters, the civilian ministers in the UK had political control over the military, as did also the POTUS by the way. In Germany, there wasn't even the equivalent to a civilian government in the Anglo-American sense as its closest counterpart, the German Chancellor, was not responsible to the Reichstag and did not reflect the political party composition of the federal legislature.

 

[Cory]

The German Monarchy had also the King's,Grand Dukes,Dukes and Princes that reigned in the Empire. It would be difficult to restore them without restoring the whole Empire.

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

The German Monarchy had also the King's,Grand Dukes,Dukes and Princes that reigned in the Empire. It would be difficult to restore them without restoring the whole Empire.

These Fürsten and their states in the Kaiserreich were, in practice, subservient to "Berlin". It was nice to be Fürst von Lippe, Herzog von Mecklenburg or Markgraf von Baden but in essence they were puppets which were a heavy burden on all the Budgets of all the states. The Germans have ended these monarchies in a more or less prudent manner, look at all these former Fürsten who still have their ancestral castles and patrimoniums. We can not say that the same favourability was done to the royals and nobles in Austria, Russia or the countries which endured Communist rule. I think no one of these German Houses: Bayern, Waldeck und Pyrmont, Hessen, etc. is thinking about a restoration at all. Many of these Fürsten have a good life, they have a position in society and that is it.

 

[Cory]

These Fürsten and their states in the Kaiserreich were, in practice, subservient to "Berlin". It was nice to be Fürst von Lippe, Herzog von Mecklenburg or Markgraf von Baden but in essence they were puppets which were a heavy burden on all the Budgets of all the states. The Germans have ended these monarchies in a more or less prudent manner, look at all these former Fürsten who still have their ancestral castles and patrimoniums. We can not say that the same favourability was done to the royals and nobles in Austria, Russia or the countries which endured Communist rule. I think no one of these German Houses: Bayern, Waldeck und Pyrmont, Hessen, etc. is thinking about a restoration at all. Many of these Fürsten have a good life, they have a position in society and that is it.

It would be difficult to believe the Princes of these Houses do not believe in Monarchy. Restoration is certainly not easy and can't be done only in parts of Germany.

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

It would be difficult to believe the Princes of these Houses do not believe in Monarchy. Restoration is certainly not easy and can't be done only in parts of Germany.

A pretty simple example: in 1868 the Kingdom of Prussia usurped the Kurfürstentum Hessen, the Herzogtum Nassau, the Freie Stadt Frankfurt and formed the Prussian province of Hessen-Nassau. In 1929 also the Fürstentum of Waldeck and Pyrmont was usurped and added to this Prussian province.

So a German restoration in which big boy Prussia simply bullied away the Elector of Hessen, the Duke of Nassau, the Free Citizens of Frankfurt and the Fürst von Waldeck und Pyrmont?

After 1945 the Allied Powers redrew the map of Germany. The present Bundesländer in Germany were created out of the former principalities, not always with an eye on history and with some misdrawings.

That task is so immense, that a return to the monarchy (which one?) would be alike opening Pandora's Box. And why? Germany is a powerful and wealthy state, directing the tone in the European Union and a mayor player at the world stage. Why would the honourable Bundespräsident in Schloss Bellevue ever make place for an unelected great-grandson of the last Emperor?