General Questions and Information about the Danish Royal Family

[Somebody]

I looked up the word 'rigsforstander' in Statstidende and it only shows up for twice; both published on February 23. The first one was signed on February 10 announcing that Frederik will "insert (...) Her Majesty Queen Margrethe to, as regent (rigsforstander), lead the government in Our name from today until Our return. " because both he and the crown prince will be abroad. On the one signed on the 18th, his return was announced, including that he took over the leadership of the government again.

Statstidende

I Statstidende optages alle meddelelser, som i henhold til lovgivningen skal kundgøres i Statstidende. Statstidende udgives af Civilstyrelsen under Justitsministeriet. På statstidende.dk kan du søge og læse meddelelser, abonnere på søgninger og dagens udgave, samt anmode om optagelse af...

www.statstidende.dk

There are no results for either 'Regent' or 'Christian', so it seems that when Christian takes over is not included at all - I assume, because it is automatic as soon as Frederik is out of the country, so no special 'bill' needs to be passed/signed.

So, the advice to look it up in practice means that in hindsight (about 2 weeks later, when the king has already returned) you might find out who was acting head of state - but only if a rigsforstander was appointed, i.e., it is not Christian.

 

[Muhler]

Thanks.
Well, that's not particular impressive.

How is it possible to make a mess out of something so simple?
Most people on the planet are able to write an update on a public calendar. Some of us are required to do it in connection with our jobs - simply to make things run more smoothly.
Fortunately it's not long to bedtime, I'm getting a headache from shaking my head.

ADDED: Christian acting as Regent is automatic, and IIRC doesn't have to be announced. But the appointment of a Rigsforstander is exactly that, an appointment, and that must be announced in Statstidende.
Still, if Christian was Regent, why not mention it? It's an unnecessary secret. It's really none of our business why Christian was Regent, if he was, (it could be something as mundane as him making calls to Ullrich in the big phone in the bathroom.) but it is our business to know who formally runs the country at any given time.

 

[Muhler]

Were you not being serious when the beginning of your post said things were being changed for the better, @Muhler?

That's what the DRF has now announced after considerable criticism in the press. (Even DM is running a story about it.) - Let's hope it will change for the better from now on.

 

[polyesco]

That's what the DRF has now announced after considerable criticism in the press. (Even DM is running a story about it.) - Let's hope it will change for the better from now on.

"From now on, it will again be possible to get clarity on who is regent or head of state by looking in the Royal Household's calendar.
The Royal House informs BT"

So they tried something and learned from it. Good. I always liked when things are listed on calendars, although for many being Regent or Rigsforstander was no big deal. Now we know it is ; )

 

[tommy100]

So they announced the whole family were on holiday only for the flag to reveal that actually they hadn't? And people get in such a state over other royals PR. I'd go as far as to say that the DRF PR office lied, at the very least they knowingly allowed the media to report information that was not correct.

This is shocking IMO. It reflects poorly on the new King but also on the Communications Staff who should have stood up to him and said this simply won't do. I hope that is indeed the message sent to Fred otherwise the Comms team is at fault and needs replacing. No RF is well served by a team of "yes people".

 

[Izzie]

"From now on, it will again be possible to get clarity on who is regent or head of state by looking in the Royal Household's calendar.
The Royal House informs BT"

So they tried something and learned from it. Good. I always liked when things are listed on calendars, although for many being Regent or Rigsforstander was no big deal. Now we know it is ; )

I agree 100%. They tried to revise the way one thing was done when and like you said learned it maybe sounded easier in theory. Or, maybe they gave people too much credit and now realise they have to spell everything out for people. No harm done. So they just said okay we will go back to spelling it out on the calendar. They did not dig in their heels like maybe other RFs would have done regardless of how much people complained and asked questions.

 

[iceflower]

Princess Benedikte has a new lady in waiting, it was announced today:

Udnævnelse af ny hofdame for H.K.H. Prinsesse Benedikte

Den 1. april 2024 tiltræder grevinde, kammerherreinde Mette Louise Ahlefeldt-Laurvig som ny hofdame for H.K.H. Prinsesse Benedikte.Mette Louise Ahlefeldt-Laurvig afløser hofdame, kammerhe...

www.kongehuset.dk

 

[Muhler]

Both her new and former LiW are from old noble families.
The ever present Ahlefeldt-Laurvig family and the Iuel family (pronounced in English like yule as in yuletide).

 

[kalnel]

Isn't that Alexandra SWB's husband's family name?

 

[Henrik]

Isn't that Alexandra SWB's husband's family name?

That is correct. Princess Alexandra's husband, count Michael Ahlefeldt-Laurvig-Bille, and Mette Ahlefeldt-Laurvig's husband, count Christian Ahlefeldt-Laurvig, are first cousins.

 

[iceflower]

Posts about Princess Alexandra have been moved to her own thread at the Non-Reigning Houses subforum:

** Princess Alexandra of Berleburg and Family, Current Events Part 1: April 2004 - **

 

[Somebody]

How should we view Margrethe's status after the abdication? In the Netherlands, as queen Wilhelmina so poignantly explained at some point, a monarch who abdicated is considered constitutionally dead. However, it seems Margrethe is in some ways treated as if she is now in line to the throne again - as she is still stepping in as rigsforstander (acting Head of State). Was this officially approved on January 14 (as it was announced in advance that she would be able to) or was this automatic? For Mary, the Council of State had to officially approve.

H.M. Dronningen vil kunne indsættes som rigsforstander

H.M. Dronningen kan efter statsrådet den 14. januar 2024 indsættes som rigsforstander. Som rigsforstander vil Dronningen kunne varetage forpligtelserne som statsoverhoved, når både D.K.H....

www.kongehuset.dk

Press release: HRH The Crown Princess can act as regent

At today’s Council of State, Her Majesty The Queen got approval so that Her Royal Highness The Crown Princess can function as acting regent, starting today.During the Council of State, Th...

www.kongehuset.dk

 

[Tatiana Maria]

[...] However, it seems Margrethe is in some ways treated as if she is now in line to the throne again - as she is still stepping in as rigsforstander (acting Head of State). Was this officially approved on January 14 (as it was announced in advance that she would be able to) or was this automatic? For Mary, the Council of State had to officially approve.

H.M. Dronningen vil kunne indsættes som rigsforstander

H.M. Dronningen kan efter statsrådet den 14. januar 2024 indsættes som rigsforstander. Som rigsforstander vil Dronningen kunne varetage forpligtelserne som statsoverhoved, når både D.K.H....

www.kongehuset.dk

Press release: HRH The Crown Princess can act as regent

At today’s Council of State, Her Majesty The Queen got approval so that Her Royal Highness The Crown Princess can function as acting regent, starting today.During the Council of State, Th...

www.kongehuset.dk

The law on regency, which dates to 1871, does not in itself require the Council of State to approve the monarch's appointments of regents. The final sentence of section 1, paragraph 1, simply stipulates that when the King and the Heir to the Throne are both unable to conduct the Government, "he [the King] appoints a Rigsforstander [regent]".

LOV nr 25 af 11/02/1871, Statsministeriet

Lov om Regjeringens Førelse i Tilfælde af Kongens Umyndighed, Sygdom eller Fraværelse (* 1)

www.retsinformation.dk

My guess is that the Council of State's approval of the monarch's appointment of a Rigsforstander is related to the current unwritten convention that the King should not execute his powers independently, but only with the consent of the Government.

 

[Muhler]

That's very simple.
She is ex-Queen Margrethe.

And according to the DRF protocol, once a majesty always a majesty.

So she is Her Majesty (ex-)Queen Margrethe of Denmark. (Not to Denmark, because she's had her time.)

Her status and current rank is similar to the late Queen Ingrid.

In order of precedence QMII is now only outranked by King Frederik, Queen Mary and Crown Prince Christian. But as she is Majesty, he will so to speak salute QMII first, and she will normally be accompanied by Christian when going in a procession. Until he gets married, in which case Christian's wife will outrank QMII.
When Isabella turns 18 she too will formally outrank QMII but as a courtesy (and because she is a Majesty) she will still be accompanied by Christian and as such walk before Isabella in a procession.
Had QMII been a mere princess, Isabella would accompany Christian in future processions, until one of them marry.
For the same reason QMII outranks Prince Joachim, even though he is in the Line of Succession, because she is Majesty.
The only time Joachim outranks QMII is when he acts as Rigsforstander.

You will see it very clearly come October at the Opening of the Parliament. The protocol on that day is followed to the letter. QMII will on that day be escorted by the fourth highest ranking member of the Presidium of the Parliament. And that will be a representative from the party with the third highest number of seats in the Parliament. Because the Chairman of the Parliament (and as such also the Chairman of the Presidium) is elected by the PMs from among themselves, while the rest of the members of the Presidium are represented by the parties with the highest number of seats.
On that day the DRF are not received by members of the government, because they are honored guests of the Parliament.

The King can appoint anyone to be a Rigsforstander (among those who have been approved to act as such), provided that person is a Danish citizen, is a member of the State Church and has signed a pledge to obey the Constitution. Who, when and why is not something the Parliament or government will interfere with once the formalities are in order.
If the Parliament and/or government has a problem with a person, that person will simply not be approved as Rigsforstander by the Monarch. Think PH.
King Frederik can appoint Benedikte as Rigsforstander, even if Queen Mary, Joachim and QMII are available. That's up to King Frederik alone.

 

[maria-olivia]

If the whole Royal family goes on holiday , QMII and Benedikte are available. Joachim will never leave Washington. The whole family must be very happy they moved before the Abdication.

 

[Izzie]

That's very simple.
She is ex-Queen Margrethe.

And according to the DRF protocol, once a majesty always a majesty.

So she is Her Majesty (ex-)Queen Margrethe of Denmark. (Not to Denmark, because she's had her time.)

Her status and current rank is similar to the late Queen Ingrid.

In order of precedence QMII is now only outranked by King Frederik, Queen Mary and Crown Prince Christian. But as she is Majesty, he will so to speak salute QMII first, and she will normally be accompanied by Christian when going in a procession. Until he gets married, in which case Christian's wife will outrank QMII.
When Isabella turns 18 she too will formally outrank QMII but as a courtesy (and because she is a Majesty) she will still be accompanied by Christian and as such walk before Isabella in a procession.
Had QMII been a mere princess, Isabella would accompany Christian in future processions, until one of them marry.
For the same reason QMII outranks Prince Joachim, even though he is in the Line of Succession, because she is Majesty.
The only time Joachim outranks QMII is when he acts as Rigsforstander.

You will see it very clearly come October at the Opening of the Parliament. The protocol on that day is followed to the letter. QMII will on that day be escorted by the fourth highest ranking member of the Presidium of the Parliament. And that will be a representative from the party with the third highest number of seats in the Parliament. Because the Chairman of the Parliament (and as such also the Chairman of the Presidium) is elected by the PMs from among themselves, while the rest of the members of the Presidium are represented by the parties with the highest number of seats.
On that day the DRF are not received by members of the government, because they are honored guests of the Parliament.

The King can appoint anyone to be a Rigsforstander (among those who have been approved to act as such), provided that person is a Danish citizen, is a member of the State Church and has signed a pledge to obey the Constitution. Who, when and why is not something the Parliament or government will interfere with once the formalities are in order.
If the Parliament and/or government has a problem with a person, that person will simply not be approved as Rigsforstander by the Monarch. Think PH.
King Frederik can appoint Benedikte as Rigsforstander, even if Queen Mary, Joachim and QMII are available. That's up to King Frederik alone.

Thank you for the clear and concise explanation and breakdown. Makes perfect sense.

 

[polyesco]

Some cute posts from the Amalienborg museum.
On a day like this in 1981, King Frederik 10 had his confirmation
Log into Facebook

and yesterday in 1968, King Frederik 9 was congratulated on the birth of his grandson, prince Frederik

Log into Facebook

Log into Facebook to start sharing and connecting with your friends, family, and people you know.

www.facebook.com

 

[Sister Morphine]

Hmm. Frederik was only 13 when he was confirmed, but both Christian and Isabella were 15. Maybe Muhler can help us out -- has the age of confirmation changed, or did Frederik and Mary choose to have their kids wait a couple of years?

 

[Somebody]

Based on this article by the 'Danish museum' confirmation traditionally took place around age 14. Other sources state 13 to 15 as a common age for confirmation.

Confirmation: Coming of Age in Denmark and the US - Museum of Danish America

www.danishmuseum.org

The Lutheran church website states that most young members take confirmation classes at age 13 or 14 - which take up most of the school year until the confirmation ceremony in Spring, so they might be anywhere between 13 to 15 when they are confirmed.

Church service

The Sunday service is the main service in the Evangelical Lutheran Church in Denmark (ELCD). The Order of Worship is characterized by its two main parts: firstly the service of the word, including readings from the Old Testament, the Epistles and the Gospel as well as a sermon, and secondly the...

www.lutheranchurch.dk

 

[Muhler]

Hmm. Frederik was only 13 when he was confirmed, but both Christian and Isabella were 15. Maybe Muhler can help us out -- has the age of confirmation changed, or did Frederik and Mary choose to have their kids wait a couple of years?

Somebody is right.

Traditionally and that is still so in most of DK, you are confirmed when are 14. But for whatever reason 15 is more common in Copenhagen at least.
Beforehand after your confirmation at 14, your were "of age" (not to be confused with legal age) and that was the time you started to work for real or became an apprentice or started as a young girl in a household. It was next to unheard that a person who had been confirmed wasn't working but merely idling about at home. That was something only the higher middle-class and up could afford.
Confirmation was also for many in Europe at least, the time when boys changed from shorts to long pants and girl began to wear long "adult" dresses or skirts.
The thing about shorts, and especially having bare legs all year round almost regardless of the weather has never really been a Danish thing like it it my understanding that it was in say England. The purpose being to harden the boys. Here it would simply be considered silly not to cover up in winter. Keep in mind that DK is on the same latitude as Scotland and southern Alaska.

Interestingly the nonfirmation, which has I think become just as common, if not more, than a real confirmation (both our children decided not to be confirmed and got a nonfirmation instead. Which is basically a celebration by the family, but without the religious aspect.) usually takes place at normal confirmation time, I.e. around May.

A nonfirmation is de facto out of the question for children of a CP or a monarch, so the twins will no doubt be confirmed, probably when they are 15.

So King Frederik was very young when he was confirmed. And too young IMO.

In DK you are normally confirmed with your classmates. And as such you pose in group-photos. Here is such a very typical photo, it's very similar to the photos made in our local village church. And as you can tell, some of them look like teens, others look like children.

https://auningby.dk/fileadmin/_processed_/7/d/csm_Konfirmanter_1997_2_59be68f313.jpg

Also, again here in DK. If you live in houses on the same street as someone whose child if being confirmed (or nonfirmed) it's considered common courtesy to send congratulation-card. Or if you live in a flat, you send your card to those in the same (what do you call it in English? Those who share the same staircase with you in say #24.) street-number.

 

[Sister Morphine]

Thank you for the information, Muhler! You're a pinch to have around for any Denmark-related questions.

That's an interesting picture. I rather enjoy the feather boa on the young lady on the far left. I was raised Catholic, and if I'd worn a feather in my confirmation photo, my parents would have crapped a brick! LOL

 

[EloiseRuth]

Prince Christian should have been confirmed when he was aged 14 in early 2020 but the ceremony was postponed (twice) due to Covid:

Christian, Isabella, Vincent and Josephine, News Part 3: November 2015 - June 2023

YouTube - only 9 minutes long? I wonder why the rest of the footage is not allowed to be shown on other sites/tv broadcasting company?

www.theroyalforums.com

Isabella was confirmed just after her 15th birthday in April 2022.

Perhaps the timing relates to which school year they are in - Christian is two school years ahead of Isabella.

 

[Muhler]

Congratulations on your first post.

In DK it's usual to be confirmed according to the school level you are in.
Outside Copenhagen that inevitably means seventh grade (with 0 grade being pre-school where you start in the year you turn six) and beforehand that was also when most left school. Seven years of schooling being mandatory. (Today it's nine years.)

 

[iceflower]

The Palace released an announcement concerning the patronages of King Frederik, Queen Mary, Queen Margrethe, Prince Joachim, Princess Marie and Princess Benedikte today:

Changes in the royal patronages

The Royal Family attends to patronages of a large number of organisations and associations, which span a wide range of areas such as education, business, culture, sport, sustainability an...

www.kongehuset.dk

 

[Chimene]

The Palace released an announcement concerning the patronages of King Frederik, Queen Mary, Queen Margrethe, Prince Joachim, Princess Marie and Princess Benedikte today:

Changes in the royal patronages

The Royal Family attends to patronages of a large number of organisations and associations, which span a wide range of areas such as education, business, culture, sport, sustainability an...

www.kongehuset.dk

What are the implications/meaning of this change in practical terms?

 

[Duke of Marmalade]

Thanks, weren't they recently awarded more money by parliament and are doing now even less work for that?

 

[Izzie]

Good that they've chosen patronages that reflect their areas of focus. I also like that patronages will be reviewed every 5 years. I think this will allow them to be able to be more involved with their patronages and in turn those patronages will benefit more.

Also, the number of patronages does not in any way shape or form denote the amount of work a royal does. I mean you see other royals with 100s and 100s if patronages that will be lucky if they get any actual attention from their royal patron. Just because a royal slaps their name in a patronage does not mean they will have any actual relationship with that organization. That is such an antiquated concept. Plus it just seems to be quantity over quality. And a way to prop themselves.

So unlike what some might want to imply, the amount of patronages a royal has listed does not signify the amount of work they will do. That's just silly. A royal with 600 patronages would have to visit at least 2 a day every day in a year and we all know that does not happen. So what do they do in terms of work? I mean patronages equals work right? And yet, one can look as see where increases in funds happened as well. So let's not deflect.

 

[Somebody]

Do we know how many patronages each one had before the reshuffle? It looks like all of it was well thought-through; and I'm happy to see that both Joachim and Marie retain a significant number of patronages. A clear sign that they still have a role to play within the Danish royal family.

 

[Archduchess Zelia]

QMII went from 72 to 20 patronages.

Frederik went from 32 to 27.

Mary went from 32 to 24.

Marie went from 15 to 18.

Joachim went from 41 to 23.

27 and 24 patronages for the regent couple is... unimpressive IMO. QMII accumulated a lot through the years but for the monarch to go from 72 to 27 patronages? Wow.

Among significant patronages lost in the reshuffle: Animal Protection Denmark/Dyrenes Beskyttelse (QMII), LOKK – National organisation of women's shelters in Denmark (Mary), DaneAge Association/Ældre Sagen (QMII – surprised she didn't keep this one), The Danish Swimming Federation (Mary), World Health Organisation (Mary – very surprised to see this one go as Mary seemed very engaged with the WHO).

 

[polyesco]

I'm sure more will be added with time. Christian also in the near future.
I'm sure a thoughtful process is being done.
And a long list is not impressive if nothing is done with that patronage for years.
More to come I'm sure.