General information and questions about Monaco and the Princely Family

[iceflower]

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The 41st and last edition of the Monegasques Annals has been published this month:


** fb gallery ** annales-monegasques.mc **

 

[Elly C]

That is sad if it is the last edition. Why is it stopping? Although it can appear a little dry to those of us whose reading of French leaves a lot to be desired, there have been two lovely photographic editions commemorating Grace and Rainier. I guess the early editions must be collectors' items.

 

[Florestane]

That is sad if it is the last edition. Why is it stopping? Although it can appear a little dry to those of us whose reading of French leaves a lot to be desired, there have been two lovely photographic editions commemorating Grace and Rainier. I guess the early editions must be collectors' items.

My thoughts exactly!

 

[iceflower]

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Monaco Info has created a review of some of the highlights for Monaco in 2017:

 

[Florestane]

Princess Caroline talking about her distant relationship with her mother "We were closer to our nanny", and how she and Prince Albert couldn't eat with their parents until they were 14.

Princess Caroline opens up about her distant relationship with Grace Kelly | Daily Mail Online

Princess Caroline and Prince Albert of Monaco Interview New Book | PEOPLE.com

Trust the Daily Mail to conflate what she actually said into a "distant relationship". I've read the book and the headline isn't quite accurate. Also, they didn't have an upbringing any different from other children of their background and status at the time, with their parents a lot more present than in other royal families.

 

[assia]

Trust the Daily Mail to conflate what she actually said into a "distant relationship". I've read the book and the headline isn't quite accurate. Also, they didn't have an upbringing any different from other children of their background and status at the time, with their parents a lot more present than in other royal families.

I completely agree with you . I have read the book and What she meant was due to the very busy schedule of the parents the nanny was very much in charge with their education as it was common in their social background. It was not meant as if their parents were distant .

 

[capri]

Princess Caroline talking about her distant relationship with her mother "We were closer to our nanny", and how she and Prince Albert couldn't eat with their parents until they were 14.

Princess Caroline opens up about her distant relationship with Grace Kelly | Daily Mail Online

Princess Caroline and Prince Albert of Monaco Interview New Book | PEOPLE.com

In Albert's interview at "People", he says for Caroline:
“She is not the heir to the throne, but she too will have her part of the job to do,” he said. “My sisters do a lot of things, a day will come when they will necessarily be less present, less active. And where someone else will have to assume their responsibilities.”
It sounds that in the future he will not need his sisters's help. Especially Caroline has had a lot for Monaco. Maybe I make a mistake, but I didn't like his point of view.

 

[Florestane]

In Albert's interview at "People", he says for Caroline:
“She is not the heir to the throne, but she too will have her part of the job to do,” he said. “My sisters do a lot of things, a day will come when they will necessarily be less present, less active. And where someone else will have to assume their responsibilities.”
It sounds that in the future he will not need his sisters's help. Especially Caroline has had a lot for Monaco. Maybe I make a mistake, but I didn't like his point of view.

No, he said that there will be a time where they won't be undertaking those duties (they're getting older and aren't part of the Sovereign family, have their own families) so of necessity Gabriella will have a similar role with Jacques that they have had with him. In fact, in the book he (and his sisters) talk quite a lot about how they still work together, and how they support him.

 

[capri]

No, he said that there will be a time where they won't be undertaking those duties (they're getting older and aren't part of the Sovereign family, have their own families) so of necessity Gabriella will have a similar role with Jacques that they have had with him. In fact, in the book he (and his sisters) talk quite a lot about how they still work together, and how they support him.

Oh thank you, Florestane

 

[iceflower]

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Today, July 19, the Princely Palace of Monaco participates in the "3rd edition of PalaceDay, under the theme "A Place at the Royal Table", on the occasion of the European Year of Cultural Heritage".


** fb gallery: PalaceDay: A place at the Royal Table **

 

[eya]

Count Louis de Causans seeks compensation from the French State, because according to his statements his ancestors should have become the princes of Monaco. it requires 350 million euros in damages

https://www.businessinsider.com/ari...or-351-million-euro-over-monaco-throne-2018-8

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6058755/Aristocrat-sues-France-314m-Monaco-throne-row.html

https://www.belgaimage.be/#/gallery/6264979

And if someone wonder... Why Monaco doesn't have kings or Queens?

https://monacowealthmanagement.com/2018/08/19/why-monacos-royal-family-doesnt-have-kings-or-queens/

 

[JR76]

Count Louis de Causans seeks compensation from the French State, because according to his statements his ancestors should have become the princes of Monaco. it requires 350 million euros in damages

https://www.businessinsider.com/ari...or-351-million-euro-over-monaco-throne-2018-8

https://www.belgaimage.be/#/gallery/6264979

What a waste of the French taxpayers money. He doesn't stand a chance. Even if he was in the line of succession he'd be so far down he'd have no official role in Monaco. He talks about the Urach claim without even being descended from them. His claim is so old it's pre-revolutionary.

 

[An Ard Ri]

Has he based his claim on descendancy from Princess Honorine de Monaco daughter of Prince Joseph of Monaco?

 

[JR76]

Has he based his claim on descendancy from Princess Honorine de Monaco daughter of Prince Joseph of Monaco?

Yes, that's right.

 

[Stefan]

Has he based his claim on descendancy from Princess Honorine de Monaco daughter of Prince Joseph of Monaco?

The article says something about the Urach line. But i can't find out he how he is related to the Urach's.

 

[JR76]

The article says something about the Urach line. But i can't find out he how he is related to the Urach's.

He's descended from a granddaughter of Honore III through his second son Joseph while the Urachs are descended from a great-granddaughter through his eldest son and heir Honore IV.
This great-granddaughter, named Florestine, married the first Duke of Urach.

 

[Stefan]

He's descended from a granddaughter of Honore III through his second son Joseph while the Urachs are descended from a great-granddaughter through his eldest son and heir Honore IV.
This great-granddaughter, named Florestine, married the first Duke of Urach.

I know about the Urach-Württemberg marriage. But the article qoutes him as saying bhis ancestor Guillaume II. of Urach which is obviously wrong.

 

[JR76]

I know about the Urach-Württemberg marriage. But the article qoutes him as saying bhis ancestor Guillaume II. of Urach which obviously wrong.

Yes, I know it's a very strange article. I've goggled and found some French articles that I had translated into English which are better written and seems more factual.
That said I have no idea where he thinks his lawsuit will lead.

 

[An Ard Ri]

The claim is laughable ,surely he knows he hasn't a hope in hell!

 

[Kataryn]

I know about the Urach-Württemberg marriage. But the article qoutes him as saying bhis ancestor Guillaume II. of Urach which is obviously wrong.

And even if Wilhelm II. is his ancestor, there are senior male-line descendants of the Urachs alive, so it should be their right (if there was any).


I looked it up:

This count is the son of

Isabelle de Caumont La Force (1952), fille d'Élisabeth de Castellane et de Jean de Caumont La Force, lui-même fils d'Armand de Caumont La Force et d'Anne-Marie Guigues de Moreton de Chabrillan (fille de Félicité de Lévis-Mirepoix et d'Aynard Guigues de Moreton de Chabrillan, lui-même fils d'Anne de Croÿ et de Fortuné Guigues de Moreton de Chabrillan, lui-même fils de Jules Guigues de Moreton de Chabrillan et de Joséphine de La Tour du Pin, elle-même fille d'Honorine de Monaco et de René III de La Tour du Pin) ; mariée à Aymar de Vincens de Causans.


So he is one of the many descendants of the Honorine-line which is second to the Florestine-line of the Urach princes and princesses and their descedants (and there are so many!)


Sooo far removed from the actual throne of Monaco.

 

[An Ard Ri]

Prince Joseph was only a second son,his older brother succeeded his father as Honoré IV of Monaco and he had 2 sons both who became Sovereign Princes of Monaco...his claim is over 200 years late!

The German relatives have a far stronger claim via Princess Florestine of Monaco.

 

[Blog Real]

Aristocrat sues France for €351m in row over Monaco throne
Louis de Causans says relatives were tricked out of line of succession by ‘sleight of hand’.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...ch-state-claiming-family-denied-monaco-throne

 

[Tatiana Maria]

Lately, I have been reading websites about Princess Stephanie and many of them refer to her as Countess of Polignac. Is this correct?

I don't see how she could be. Pierre de Polignac was not the heir apparent of the Polignacs and only used Count as a courtesy title, and furthermore he gave up his last name and assumed the name of Grimaldi by a sovereign ordinance when he married.

So he is one of the many descendants of the Honorine-line which is second to the Florestine-line of the Urach princes and princesses and their descedants (and there are so many!)

The German relatives have a far stronger claim via Princess Florestine of Monaco.

Even if he was in the line of succession he'd be so far down he'd have no official role in Monaco.

The article in Le Parisien says that the Urach line renounced.

http://www.leparisien.fr/faits-dive...ns-d-euros-a-la-france-12-08-2018-7850526.php

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

In 1924 Wilhelm, the son of Florestine Duchess of Urach born Princess of Monaco along with the other adult descendants of his mother, renounced their dynastic rights.But apparently they only renounced with a French cousin in mind, which would take away the objections of France that Monaco would come "in German hands".
The French and the monégasques "out-tricked" these lawful heirs in favour of Prince Rainier's mother.

The comte Louis de Vincens de Causans however has no claim because he indeed is genealogically "higher" but Monaco has a male-preferred succession, so not his mother Isabelle de Caumont La Force but her younger brother Xavier (the claimant's uncle) would have been Prince de Monaco.



Honorine Grimaldi, princesse de Monaco (1784-1879)
x Aynard marquis La Tour du Pin - La Charce (1806-1855)
=
Charlotte La Tour du Pin - La Charce


Charlotte des marquises La Tour du Pin - La Charce (1805-1885)
x Charles Fortuné Guigues de Moreton, comte de Chabrillan (1796-1863)
=
Camille Fortuné Guigues de Moreton de Chabrillan


Camille Fortuné Guigues de Moreton, comte de Chabrillan (1828-1900)
x Anne-Françoise princesse de Croÿ (1831-1887)
=
Aynard Guigues de Moreton de Chabrillan


Aynard Guigues de Moreton, comte de Chabrillan, 10e marquis de Chabrillan (1869-1950)
Le Prince de Monaco 1922-1950
x Félicité des ducs de Lévis-Mirepoix (1874-1948)
=
Anne-Marie Guigues de Moreton de Chabrillan


Anne-Marie Guigues des marquises de Moreton de Chabrillan (1894-1983)
La Princesse de Monaco 1950-1983
x Armand comte de Caumont-La Force (1881-1950)
=
Jean-Bertrand de Caumont-La Force


Jean-Bertrand comte de Caumont-La Force (1920-1986)
Le Prince de Monaco 1983-1986
x Élisabeth-Louise des marquises de Castellane (1928-1991)
=
Olivier-Armand de Caumont-La Force (1949-2003 - no issue)
Isabelle-Yvonne comtesse de Vincens de Causans née de Caumont-La Force (1952) - the mother of the present claimant
Cordélia-Louise de Foucauld de Bodard de La Jacopière née de Caumont-La Force (1955-1995)
Laurence-Marie de Caumont-La Force (1961)
Xavier-Marie de Caumont-La Force (1963)


Xavier-Marie comte de Caumont-La Force (1963)
Le Prince de Monaco (since 1986)
x Corinne des seigneurs Bourru de Lamotte (1954)
=
Henri de Caumont-La Force (1991)
Hadrien de Caumont-La Force (1994)
Antoine de Caumont-La Force (1998)

 

[An Ard Ri]

Wilhelm Karl, Duke of Urach was also offered the throne as King of Lithuania in 1918 but that came to nothing.

By his wife Amalie in Bavaria they had 9 children plenty of heirs and spare for Monaco!

 

[JR76]

I don't see how she could be. Pierre de Polignac was not the heir apparent of the Polignacs and only used Count as a courtesy title, and furthermore he gave up his last name and assumed the name of Grimaldi by a sovereign ordinance when he married.







The article in Le Parisien says that the Urach line renounced.

http://www.leparisien.fr/faits-dive...ns-d-euros-a-la-france-12-08-2018-7850526.php

Yes, they did but the Count de Lausand isn't part of the Urach line. The claim is as absurd as if the Margrave of Baden would sue Sweden for compensation for his ancestors losing Sweden.

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

Wilhelm Karl, Duke of Urach was also offered the throne as King of Lithuania in 1918 but that came to nothing.

By his wife Amalie in Bavaria they had 9 children plenty of heirs and spare for Monaco!

No because he and all his descendants from his mother Princess Florentine de Monaco renounced their monegasque rights, so that the whole Urach line is no longer on the picture. It would have gone to the line of his great aunt Princess Honorine de Monaco. That was their purpose. Instead Rainier's mother came in the picture.

Yes, they did but the Count de Lausand isn't part of the Urach line. The claim is as absurd as if the Margrave of Baden would sue Sweden for compensation for his ancestors losing Sweden.

The Urach line has renounced. The comte has a claim from the Honorine line but he has to give way to an uncle and three cousins, if we apply the male-preferred succesion rules. See the genealogy above.

 

[JR76]

The Urach line has renounced. The comte has a claim from the Honorine line but he has to give way to an uncle and three cousins, if we apply the male-preferred succesion rules. See the genealogy above.

I know, if you read my posts earlier in the thread you'll see that I'm perfectly aware of the intricacies of the Monegasque succession and the descendants of Prince Honore III.

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

I know, if you read my posts earlier in the thread you'll see that I'm perfectly aware of the intricacies of the Monegasque succession and the descendants of Prince Honore III.

But you stated that the claim is absurd because the comte is not from the Urach line. That is correct. But that line is no longer in play since the renouncation of the "German" line in favour of their French cousins. The comte is from the "French cousins" line and therefore his claim is not thát absurd. It has zero chance, but it is not without any reasoning.

 

[Susan D]

This "Causans" case makes the Grimaldi look like usurpers.