Future Home for Prince Harry

[Queen Camilla]

Plan failed to include Baby Cambridge who will probably be around 30 years old when William becomes King.

W & K = KP then BP (no need to play musical chairs/houses)
Baby Cambridge = CH (House left vacant until W becomes king.)
Harry = St. James' Palace. By the time Charles is King, Harry will be probably be #6 or so. Baby Cambridge might have several kids.

 

[Elenath]

I think there is a chance Harry (and family) will get Clarence House once Charles becomes king. And if Charles chooses to live in BP of course. I think William and Kate will stay in KP until William becomes king.

 

[Queen Camilla]

No because women usually outlive men & then Camilla will end up in BP or homeless or she will have to evict Harry.

 

[Elenath]

I'm sure they can find her a spot. It's not like they are short of space. Besides, doesn't Camilla still have her own house somewhere in Wiltshire??

 

[scooter]

Plan failed to include Baby Cambridge who will probably be around 30 years old when William becomes King.

W & K = KP then BP (no need to play musical chairs/houses)
Baby Cambridge = CH (House left vacant until W becomes king.)
Harry = St. James' Palace. By the time Charles is King, Harry will be probably be #6 or so. Baby Cambridge might have several kids.

Not necessarily. While the Windsor women are very long lived, the opposite is true for the men. Geo 5, 6, and DoW all died young. Could be that QEII might outlive Charles. In which case, baby Cambridge will be first in line way earlier.

 

[Queen Camilla]

Even if Charles dies Camilla keeps Clarence House.

CH is usually for heir, heir's heir or dowager. Camilla will still fall into the dowager category even if Charles never becomes King. QV's father was never King. (Just because she isn't blood doesn't mean they would throw her out.)

QV's mother lived in CH from 1840 to her death in 1861. It was left vacant until 1866, when QV gave it to her 2nd son. Her heir Edward VII had Marborough House which is larger. The RF no longer has MH as a royal residence so CH is left for the heir, dowager & the heir's heir. If Charles dies before the Queen, Harry still isn't the heir's heir and Camilla still outranks Harry.

Harry is PA (Anne & Andrew). He is lucky to get Nottingham Cottage. Charles was the POW, the heir, a fulltime royal with a charity umbrella organization & until he married he only had 3 room in BP (bedroom, bathroom, sitting room.)

Princess Anne the hardest working royal for decades only had 3 room in BP until she moved to her small quarter in St. James' Palace.

Camilla has claims on CH. It is her current home, she decorated it. (The Morning Room at CH is clearly her room as it was Prince Phillips. It is decorated in her favorited colors. The same colors as her 2nd wedding dress.) She has possession. She has precedence and history on her side.

Why would you think Harry deserves CH?

 

[Elenath]

To me this is not about deserving. It just does not make sense. It all depends on where Charles wants to live when he becomes king. If it's BP or WC and I assume William and Kate will stay in KP, than I don't see why a perfectly good house should remain empty just because Charles might die first. If, before Charles died, Harry has a family of his own, CH could be used for him. It might also not be. He might just get an apartment in KP. Nottingham cottage is to small for a family.

 

[Queen Camilla]

PA has a family, so does Andrew and Edward. They all only have offices or small apartments in BP or St. James Palace.

CH's functions: The Prince of Wales uses it to receive visitors from the United Kingdom and overseas, and for official dinners, receptions and meetings.

CH is not a private residence to be passed on for a 2nd son, especially in this era when the republicans are screaming about every penny spent.

If it is vacant for a few years, it would just be opened to the public more often. Already 1/2 the building is used as offices only the 2 top floors are used by the family.

If Charles dies before Camilla. The 4th floor might be used for storage or offices. That only leaves the 3rd floor vacant and available for Camilla.

 

[Osipi]

No because women usually outlive men & then Camilla will end up in BP or homeless or she will have to evict Harry.

I can see it if Charles does die before Camilla, she'd prefer to retire to her own property of Ray Mill.

 

[Queen Camilla]

If she is still a working royal, she'll need a London base.

Harry can only have rooms in BP while Charles is King & maybe William will let him stay in BP.

 

[scooter]

She doesnt want to be a working royal now, so I can't imagine if she outlives Charles that she would want to continue.

 

[Queen Camilla]

Tsk Tsk Tsk..

I went back & read your previous posts so I know your opinions about Camilla. So I won't take this OT by challenging/correcting you.

Have a good day.

 

[Iluvbertie]

Actually I do think that she cares about the charities she has taken on and will continue to work for them once a widow - because she has taken them on and is committed to them. When she married Charles she knew that she was committing to a life of duty for the rest of her life and has taken that on.

 

[AdmirerUS]

This has been a lovely discussion with lots of excellent, reasoned opinions and I have loved every minute of it. We are, indeed off topic. If someone wants to open a new thread for discussion of Future Residences of the BRF, I think we would all plow our energy there. Let us know.

Really Excellent Discussion (without being the same old things!)

 

[Iluvbertie]

Not necessarily. While the Windsor women are very long lived, the opposite is true for the men. Geo 5, 6, and DoW all died young. Could be that QEII might outlive Charles. In which case, baby Cambridge will be first in line way earlier.

Let's look at the ages of Charles male-line ancestors going back three or four generations and something rather interesting comes out:

Father - already in his 90s.
Grandfathers - George VI (aged 56) - heavy smoker and drinker and a lot of stress due to WWII and the Abdication - generally didn't take care of his health and had stomach problems from childhood
Prince Andrew of Greece - another heavy smoker and drinker, stress due to exile etc (aged 62)
Great-grandfathers - George V of the UK - aged 70 years and 6 months - at a time when being in your 70s was regarded as old
George II of the Hellenes - assassinated aged 67 so we don't really know how long he would have lived
Prince Louis of Battenburg - died aged 67 - another smoker
Earl of Strathmore - aged 89.5 years
Going back 3 generations average age is 73 with Philip still going and an assassination in there to bring it down as well along with a range of bad health decisions such as smoking and drinking - Charles has never smoked and only drinks sparingly.
You also mentioned the DoW - died aged 78 - so hardly young.
Go back another generation though and some more long-lived males come into the picture:
Great-Great-Grandfathers - Christian IX of Denmark (a double ancestor as he is both his great-great-grandfather through Philip and a great-great-great-grandfather through Elizabeth) - died aged 87.5 -
Alexander of Hesse and by Rhine - aged 65 in the 19th C when health care was way lower than it is today
Edward VII - aged 68 - again a very heavy smoker and drinker and eater - no care for his health at all
Francis - Duke of Teck - aged 67 - again like many men of his time he was a heavy smoker
The Grand Duke Constantine of Russia - aged 67 - had a stroke - heavily stressed over the reforms in Russia in the 60s and the assassination of his brother
John Maurice Hauke - now back into the 18th C to early 19th century - aged 55 - killed in an uprising in Poland so no indication here of longevity or otherwise
13th Earl of Strathmore - aged months short of 90
Charles Cavendish-Bentinck - aged 48

When one remembers the medical knowledge available to these men in the 19th century and the fact that two male ancestors in the past 4 generations were killed it is clear that Charles has some long-lived genes in his ancestry particularly having two lines of descent from Christian IX of Denmark and the fact that he has always taken care of his health and has access to the best health care money can buy. The average age over the last four generations for the males is 70 and that is brought down, of course by the 55 year old being shot, the assassination of the 67 year old and the young death of Charles Cavendish-Bentick at 48.

To go back to his great-great-great-grandfathers would be going back well into the 1700s in some lines although Christian IX comes in there again.
Go back even further and a lot of 60s to 70s appear - meaning they were living beyond the average even with the poor health care we have today.

I know that there are people who would like Charles to predecease The Queen - and note that I am NOT pointing the finger at anyone here with the deliberate use of the generic term 'people' - but I personally think that is a very nasty view - to wish that The Queen would have to bury her own very much beloved own first born child.

 

[royal-blue]

I actually agree that rather than the Cambridges automatically being given Clarence House that it could go to Harry instead, especially if he has a family by the time Charles is king.

Harry could also be given Royal Lodge in Windsor Great Park as Andrew will no longer need such a big house.

 

[Iluvbertie]

So you want to kick Andrew out of his home and also force Harry to move from his own home at some point in the future. Whereever Harry is living once he marries (assuming he ever does marry and finding a woman who would take him on won't be easy - as Chelsy will always be there in his past) why should he leave just because his father is King. Why couldn't he do what Andrew and Edward do - live a BP.

Harry has more than enough money to buy his own home so let him do that if whatever rent free place he is given isn't up to his standards.

 

[royal-blue]

So you want to kick Andrew out of his home and also force Harry to move from his own home at some point in the future. Whereever Harry is living once he marries (assuming he ever does marry and finding a woman who would take him on won't be easy - as Chelsy will always be there in his past) why should he leave just because his father is King. Why couldn't he do what Andrew and Edward do - live a BP.

Harry has more than enough money to buy his own home so let him do that if whatever rent free place he is given isn't up to his standards.

I don't think anyone should be kicked out of their home - but it is common for royal residences to be reallocated when the are changes in the family such as a death or new monarch.

If Andrew was given a smaller property, perhaps still within WGP, he wouldn't need residential staff.

 

[Lumutqueen]

I don't think anyone should be kicked out of their home - but it is common for royal residences to be reallocated when the are changes in the family such as a death or new monarch.

If Andrew was given a smaller property, perhaps still within WGP, he wouldn't need residential staff.

We're talking about people's homes here, if there is no reason to relocate then why should they?

 

[Iluvbertie]

I don't think anyone should be kicked out of their home - but it is common for royal residences to be reallocated when the are changes in the family such as a death or new monarch.

If Andrew was given a smaller property, perhaps still within WGP, he wouldn't need residential staff.

It actually isn't common for for royal residences to be reallocated unless it is the monarch moving up and the spouse of the past monarch moving out of BP.

Go back to 1910 - Queen Alexandra left BP and returned to Marlborough House which is where George V and Queen Mary were based in London. Alexandra stayed at Marlborough House for the rest of her life. She also stayed in the big house at Sandringham until her death. She didn't move into somewhere smaller.

In 1936 Queen Mary moved into Marlborough House as it was vacant and remained there for the rest of her life.

In 1952 The Queen Mum and Queen Elizabeth swapped homes - QM going to CH where she lived until her death and QEII moving into BP. QM also moved into Royal Lodge at Windsor and stayed there until she died.

Other than that other royals stay in their own homes.

 

[Elenath]

Frogmore House is available right? That could be used for Harry when he has a family.

 

[muriel]

Frogmore House is available right? That could be used for Harry when he has a family.

I suspect Harry will want a home in London

 

[AdmirerUS]

It actually isn't common for for royal residences to be reallocated unless it is the monarch moving up and the spouse of the past monarch moving out of BP.

Go back to 1910 - Queen Alexandra left BP and returned to Marlborough House which is where George V and Queen Mary were based in London. Alexandra stayed at Marlborough House for the rest of her life. She also stayed in the big house at Sandringham until her death. She didn't move into somewhere smaller.

In 1936 Queen Mary moved into Marlborough House as it was vacant and remained there for the rest of her life.

In 1952 The Queen Mum and Queen Elizabeth swapped homes - QM going to CH where she lived until her death and QEII moving into BP. QM also moved into Royal Lodge at Windsor and stayed there until she died.

Other than that other royals stay in their own homes.

I agree - and another point would be that the last time this handover happened was so long ago, whatever we remember of it just does not apply to today. In 1952, no one knew lead paint or asbestos caused major medical issues. In 1952 renovations and do-overs were not so dearly priced. Heck , in 1952, central heat and air conditioning were not considered normal. Not to mention that no one was worried about the carbon footprints of said systems. That makes the "assignment" of suitable housing a whole different consideration.

Harry will continue to need a home that fits his lifestyle. Security issues alone will continue to be a reason to live in a Royal Residence. It's easy to recommend cousins be turned out, but then consider what a terrorist act against even your personally least-liked member of the family would mean?

Royal Residences will continue to need upkeep - whatever they are used for, closed or open. Options will continue to change based on who is on the throne, which family members continue to "need" residence as they age, children are born and children grow up. Today's reasonable solution may look absurd in 10 years.

 

[ShannyD]

Prince Andrew has a lease on Windsor Lodge. He (although the Queen may or may not of foot the bill) paid for the renovation that was deemed and necessary and the lease. The lease is, I believe, 75 years, and his heirs can still hold the lease if he dies before the lease is over. So for Harry to move into Royal Lodge, Andrew would have to be bought out.

I really don't think Harry will get the same level of lodging that William & Catherine have been given. The other children of Queen Elizabeth (excluding Charles) have been given "small" apartments (I'm not sure exactly how big of these apartments are, but I am sure they weren't as big as Charles & Diana at Kensington Palace, Charles at Clarence House, or William & Catherine at 1a) in Buckingham Palace as a place to live when they need to be in the city and to work out. Their probably all claim their main residences (and homes) as their country houses. And Anne and Andrew were both given country houses after their marriages, when they needed a home for their family.

I personally believe that Harry won't have a huge city residence, like 1A at Kensington or Clarence House. Maybe if the Cambridges move into Clarence House after Charles' accession, Harry will move into 1A because of the expenses of the renovations and it would seem silly to spend all that money and move out after only a few years.

Remember Harry won't have the same "income" that William will have. Yes, he probably has inherited a bit more money than William would have, but he will probably be living on that plus any inheritance from Charles in the future. He doesn't have future Duchy of Cornwall income, and unless he is supported by his brother or his father (which many people look down on Andrew and Edward for having their mother pay their expenses), he will need his inheritance money to create his income for him.

 

[Elenath]

I suspect Harry will want a home in London

Frogmore House could be his country/main residence. For London he will probably be given an apartment in either KP or BP.

 

[Lumutqueen]

There are rumours Frogmore is being left alone for The Duke of Edinburgh or The Queen should one outlive the other.

 

[sobriquet]

Is there a reason why Harry (or Beatrice or Eugenie, for that matter) couldn't have his own house/flat in London, apart from the royal residences? It seemed to work well enough when William and his cousins were at university.

 

[Elenath]

There are rumours Frogmore is being left alone for The Duke of Edinburgh or The Queen should one outlive the other.

I know. I've read that rumor. But somehow I don't think will have a family before they both die which means it would be free.

Is there a reason why Harry (or Beatrice or Eugenie, for that matter) couldn't have his own house/flat in London, apart from the royal residences? It seemed to work well enough when William and his cousins were at university.

Security issues. That's it I believe.

 

[Lumutqueen]

Is there a reason why Harry (or Beatrice or Eugenie, for that matter) couldn't have his own house/flat in London, apart from the royal residences?

Beatrice and Eugenie yes, if they paid for it wholly for themselves and the same goes for Henry. Having an apartment in a palace is easier for them, their staff and their family is literally down the whole. It's traditional to have country retreat and a London base that's about it.

Security issues. That's it I believe.

I don't see how, for all three they'll be protected whereever they go. Photographers will stalk them wherever they live.

 

[ShannyD]

Is there a reason why Harry (or Beatrice or Eugenie, for that matter) couldn't have his own house/flat in London, apart from the royal residences? It seemed to work well enough when William and his cousins were at university.

Like Elenath says, security issues first.

And to go with what Lumutqueen says, they would have to pay for their own house/flat. However homes in London are costly, especially if they want to be in a good neighbourhood and have a lot of room. The cost of a property in London might take a bigger chunk of their inheritances (from the Queen Mother, and I believe they have trust funds from the Queen, and Harry has more inheritance from his maternal grandfather and Diana).

Harry will probably always live in a grace-and-favour apartment in the city because he has a lifetime of royal duties to do. I think Beatrice and Eugenie will continue to live at St. James' Palace until they are married because it a more affordable option (the rent is probably a lot cheaper than something comparable) and it provides them with some security because they are in a secure building. Now once they marry, they will probably have to get their own residences outside the palace, and they probably won't be given an grace-and-favour unless it is decided that they should do royal duties.