Elizabeth I (1533-1603)

[Cadiva]

I've just found this thread which I find very interesting. I believe that Elizabeth was married to Leicester (compelling evidence to support this) and that Elizabeth was the biological mother of the great Sir Francis Bacon and the Earl of Essex whom she ultimately had executed. She was a great Queen and, like all successful, great rulers, put her obligation to the state above everything else. Or so I believe.

As for the painting, it's highly possible that it is Elizabeth. Whoever it is is certainly pregnant as Tudor fashion in Elizabeth's day was for tightly fitted clothes, all waisted, at least in every picture I've ever seen.

Sorry Polly but I'm another doubter of the "compelling evidence" that Elizabeth was married to Leicester. The only places anything remotely connected to this theory appear are on websites and in books dedicated to Sir Francis Bacon, and he seems to gather a whole load of theories including being the true author of Shakespeare's plays!
I've never seen any true Elizabethan scholar make mention of Elizabeth and Leicester being legitimately married or her producing children. In fact, there's often a school of through put forward to indicate Elizabeth may have had Amy Robsart murdered just so she could never marry Leicester.

 

[persian85033]

I certainly believe she probably had that poor woman murdered.

 

[Zonk]

What are the sources that support a theory that Elizabeth had Amy Robsart murdered? Wouldn't Leceister have more of a reason to have his wife killed?

 

[lady of hay]

I did read somewhere that Robert Cecil could have had Amy murdered so it would have been impossible for Elizabeth to marry Leicester, but I cannot remember where ! As Cecil was pushing for Elizabeth to make a foreign marriage , to remove Leicester from the picture would have suited him. Of course , poor Amy could just have fallen, as some historians believe, I think she may have been suffering form some form of cancer, but I will have to try and research this.

Further to my above post, the information came from Elizabeth and Leicester by Sarah Gristwood

 

[Furienna]

I'm afraid I've missed something here. Who was Amy Robsart, and how would her dying have made it impossible for Leicester to marry Elizabeth?

 

[Zonk]

Amy was Leicester's wife. She basically died after falling down the stairs and breaking her neck (if I recall w/out looking at Wikipedia). Maybe people thought that either Leicester or Elizabeth had Amy murdered so that the two could marry. Never happened.

 

[Anne-fan]

A friend of mine took this picture in Portsmouth I guess. I'm wondering now, whether the one on the left hand side, is the monogramm of Elizabeth I? Cause of the I between the E and R...and what das that sign on the right hand side mean?

 

[betina]

has there ever been painted a picture of Elizabeth when she was a child? Several has been made of her brother as a baby, so I wonder if some have been made of her too, and maybe her sister.

 

[Duchessmary]

Not that I'm aware of. The earliest portriat of Elizabeth was done when she was about 12.

 

[KittyAtlanta]

I don't think I've seen the portrait when she was about 12. I'm looking for it. My favorite is a painting of her playing the lute or similar instrument. She was older in that one.

 

[LordMountbatten]

I think most royalties have a lot of skeletons in their closets. But I don't think dragging them out now would be in everybody's best interests. Just a thought....But, it's a very interesting topic of those interested in conspiracies and other related things (like me). Don't you think?

 

[Anne-fan]

I think most royalties have a lot of skeletons in their closets. But I don't think dragging them out now would be in everybody's best interests. Just a thought....But, it's a very interesting topic of those interested in conspiracies and other related things (like me). Don't you think?

Yes true, well at least I condsider them interesting as well. But what precisley are you referring to?

 

[kbear87]

was elizabeth really a virgin?? maybe not because they did have birth control back then. it isn't well known but they did have condoms made from pig/sheep bladders, they had herbs that prevented pregnancy and they also soaked sponges in vinegar and made a crude diaphram. there were probably other methods too. i have read that elizabeth was pregnant by thomas seymour and miscarried but that is pure speculation, not fact. would a healthy attractive woman with many men wanting to court her stay a virgin? seems doubtful..

 

[Furienna]

I guess we'll never know for sure.

 

[LadyNemesis]

452 years ago today was the ascension of Elizabeth I to the Throne of England

 

[Lenora]

Question about Elizabeth I Tudor and her supposed child

I have a serious question based on facts and not my fantasy.Elizabeth I Tudor was called Virgin as was impossible in those times an independent queen without a husband and she told from childhood that she would never marry(the cause being probably the fear of be beheaded by husband as her mother was).She was said to have some lovers (Robert Dudley for sure).I've read some books of historians and watched the documentary "The Secret Life of Elizabeth I",so I've concluded that it was possible that she could have given birth to a child.Agree that maybe we'll never know exactly as we didn't live near her in those times .So I wonder:if she gave birth to a child,how could we find the name of this child and how could we trace her genealogy till nowadays.I've read this suggstions as well in Caroli Eriksen's book.The most likely candidate it could be Artur Dudley,her lover's son.

 

[HM Queen Catherine]

I have a serious question based on facts and not my fantasy.Elizabeth I Tudor was called Virgin as was impossible in those times an independent queen without a husband and she told from childhood that she would never marry(the cause being probably the fear of be beheaded by husband as her mother was).She was said to have some lovers (Robert Dudley for sure).I've read some books of historians and watched the documentary "The Secret Life of Elizabeth I",so I've concluded that it was possible that she could have given birth to a child.Agree that maybe we'll never know exactly as we didn't live near her in those times .So I wonder:if she gave birth to a child,how could we find the name of this child and how could we trace her genealogy till nowadays.I've read this suggstions as well in Caroli Eriksen's book.The most likely candidate it could be Artur Dudley,her lover's son.

I do not believe that "Arthur Dudley" was an illegitimate son of Robert Dudley, 1st Earl of Leicester.

The only proven illegitimate son is Sir Robert Dudley, whose mother was Douglas Howard. This Robert was born in 1574, and his mother could not possibly have been Queen Elizabeth I. Sir Robert left his wife and daughters in 1605, "married" his lover and went to Italy. He lived quite a colorful life, having 13 more children with his "wife" Elizabeth Southwell. He never returned to England and died in Florence.

While anything is possible, I believe that Elizabeth was childless, although I seriously doubt she was truly a virgin. There are several rumors and speculations that she may have had a child with Dudley, but the evidence is very vague and relies on dubious contemporary witnesses and other unreliable material.

As a Queen, she was virtually never alone at court, and as a female ruler who was legally illegitimate herself, she would have been under intense scrutiny. Under such circumstances, I do not think she could hide a full-term pregnancy or keep such a thing a secret.

She did, however, have more freedom during the reign of her brother Edward, and this is the time frame for additional rumors.. which say that she had a child by Thomas Seymour, Baron Seymour of Sudeley. He was the 4th husband of Queen Katherine Parr after the death of Henry VIII.

"Arthur Dudley" was thought to be an English spy, and he was arrested and imprisoned in Spain in 1587, where he told this story of being the son of the Earl of Leicester and the Queen. In 1590, a report to England mentioned a man purporting to be Leicester’s son being imprisoned in Alcantara, but Arthur is never mentioned again after this.

Current thought on the matter is that this man was an agent of Sir Francis Walsingham, who was probably sent to discover the movements of the Spanish fleet and whether they were preparing for war. It is thought that after he was released from prison, he probably returned to England and resumed his real identity, since he is never mentioned again. It is a fact that this man existed.. but "Arthur Dudley" is not believed to have been his real name.. and unfortunately, he is lost to history after 1590.

 

[Morrobay59]

Genuine Clothing of queen Elizabeth the 1st

I searched and finally found the perported Christining gown of baby Elizabeth, Just google this....

Elizabeth I's Christening Gown, Sudeley Castle

Good luck and I still would be so excited to see any of the amazing gowns from her rein.

 

[Grandduchess24]

The daughter of king Henry viii and Anne boelyn seemed to have been the son that henry always wanted and England must be proud to have had a queen like elizabeth I except that she hated her cousin Mary in Scotland.

 

[Zonk]

I wouldn't say that Elizabeth hated Mary, Queen of Scots as so much as she didn't trust her. I think a lot of people (in Elizabeth's shoes) would think the same ---- Mary believed that Elizabeth was a bastard and an usurper with no right to the British throne, and that she (Mary) was in fact the rightful Queen of England.

Add to that the constant plots (those contrived by Mary as well as others on her behalf) to take the throne from Elizabeth and crown Mary in her stead.

Well, I am not sure I would trust her as well.

 

[Furienna]

Yeah, considering how things were back then, Elizabeth had no choice but to execute Mary to protect herself.

 

[Vasillisos Markos]

And don't forget that Elizabeth agonized over signing the death warrant because it was a difficult decision to make and Elizabeth also believed in the divine right of kings -- how would it be to execute one whom God had elevated to such a high position? If she executed a fellow queen, how would others react to this?

 

[Chris77]

Yes, I remember reading how she agonized over signing the death warrant and didn't do it for quite some time. Elizabeth's advisors kept persuading her to execute Mary.

 

[IloveCP]

What was her relationship like with her sister?

 

[Vasillisos Markos]

What was her relationship like with her sister?

The sisters had a tenuous relationship, due to the circumstances in which they lived. Elizabeth supplanted Mary and Edward supplanted both of them in the eyes of the court. After Edward's death, and the failure of Lady Jane Grey's reign, Elizabeth rode by Mary's side when Mary came to London to be acknowledged as the rightful ruler. Mary sought to quash protestantism and Elizabeth played the role of a good Catholic, at least outwardly.

After Wyatt's Rebellion ended, Elizabeth was imprisoned in the Tower of London and interrogated, then placed under house arrest. I am sure that during this period of time, she feared Mary would have her executed but Mary was persuaded by advisors that there was no hard evidence against the princess. I think too that Mary would have been very reluctant to kill her sister; as proof, I point to Mary's vacillation on having Lady Jane Grey executed and Elizabeth's reluctance to sign the execution warrant for Mary Queen of Scots.

So their relationship, strained by external events, was prickly to say the least. And initially Mary had to be lady-in-waiting to the young Elizabeth while Anne Boleyn was Henry's wife. This must have galled and irritated the young woman who had been in her father's good graces for so long.

 

[Tsaritsa]

Elizabeth's virginal state probably sprung from her close contact with royal marriages and the knowledge that a royal wife was ever in a very precarious position, Always subservient to her husbands' whims, she lived in danger of divorce, decapitation or dying in childbirth as had Katherine, Anne and Jane. Having managed to stay alive by using her formidable wits, when she finally gained the relative safety of the throne, I imagine she determined never to hand over to any man the power she had waited so long to achieve. However, even brilliant minds require a little diversion from time to time, so I hope she managed to enjoy a few dalliences to take her mind off the burdensome affairs of state.

 

[Furienna]

Mary sought to quash protestantism and Elizabeth played the role of a good Catholic, at least outwardly.

Elizabeth had no problems with Catholicism, until she found out, the the Catholic Church still considered her illegitimate, with no right to the thrown. She might not have found out about that until after she already had become queen though.

 

[IloveCP]

Does anyone have a say in what england would look like if Elizabeth never was monarch?

 

[LadyGrinningSoul]

Does anyone have a say in what england would look like if Elizabeth never was monarch?

Well I would assume that England would be certainly Catholic and the language would be more more Spanish tilted if Mary I and Phillip II had children. Of course William Shakespeare (whom as we all know was the greatest of influences on the English language) was of the Elizabethan era, and I am unsure what the Catholic monarchs would of made of his work. So the English language would not be what it is today.

In the circumstances of England being more Spanish and Catholic, I believe that England would not have the Empire/commonwealth or power it had and has. It would be shared with Spain.

In the likely event that there would be civil conflicts due to the Spanish influence in England, this would most probably weaken England evermore.

I could be wrong about all this, but we of course will never know. Thank God we did have Elizabeth, that's all I can say.

 

[HM Queen Catherine]

Personally, I would like to believe that if Elizabeth were never Queen, Edward VI lived to grow up and produce heirs of his own (in which circumstance, Mary would never have been Queen either).

If Edward had lived and had children, England would have avoided the reigns of Bloody Mary and the Stuart dynasty.. and since Edward was a Protestant, the Reformation would have continued under his reign and (presumably) the reigns of his heirs.

Scotland and England would have perhaps remained separate countries.. but could have joined their families into a single heir at some point (through marriage) and still become Great Britain and/or the United Kingdom.

If Elizabeth never reigned, we could still have Tudors on the throne today..