Duties and Roles of Princesses Beatrice and Eugenie 1: Discussion Until 2022

[Meadow]

I just figured the Royal Family wouldn't worry about visiting us every couple years and we get visits from just Queen, Princess Anne, Prince Charles and Prince William now. Charles might come visit but it won't be a regular event like it now is. I never said it would have a big impact on the family or the duties just that it would be something less he needs to worry about. Anne goes to Africa for her charity work that doesn't happen here to the same extent at all so we can hardly be compared. Beatrice and Eugenie don't seem to bothered and in time both will marry and have families in some way they may be happy not to have the Royal Duties to worry about. Andrew does a lot of engagements and with those things to look forward too I doubt either of the girls wants to take on his workload. It's a new time the world has changed I think Charles and his plan is well laid out and Beatrice and Eugenie are fully aware by now. Whether it's going to be popular and Charles cut's out various charities is to be seen chances are the press are going to jump on him no matter what he does.

 

[Iluvbertie]

I think they will still come here as often as they do now - simply because the Australian government will still invite the Head of State of a major ally every five or so years. We will also still regularly host both CHOGM and the Commonwealth Games - other reasons for visits. The other reason for visits - natural disasters - still could happen as well (if the government asked for a visit).

When you go back and look at the visits The Queen has made, except for the 63 one there was always a major reason celebrating major events in her reign or our nation and there is no reason why that won't continue.

 

[Roslyn]

I think that once we are a republic and have our own head of state there won't be as many royal visits. Commonwealth Games and CHOGM, of course, but I can't imagine any of them popping over to visit after natural disasters anymore, or if another Opera House is opened, and for occasions like that, unless the Royal in question has a particular connection with the activity in question.

 

[Cynderella]

I think that Charles has let it be known what he is planning. He didn't lead the York Princesses around. He told them straight. It is their father and probably their mother who are not listening and pushing this.

The girls are in a tough spot. Trying to please their parents when their uncle has said no and their grandmother is staying out of it. She is deferring to Charles on this. Don't see how the girls and Andrew are going to win this. The public doesn't want them on the rota, so there is no reason to go out on the limb for them.

Their little contrempts with Kate didn't help things with William and probably Uncle Charles either. That to me is Sarah all the way. ( The outfits for the wedding, setting Harry up with Cressida, forcing her to curtsy to them, and who knows what else that we don't know about.)

The York Princesses chose to go to a Branson wedding over a family event about a year ago at Christmastime. The went to the Eccelstone wedding. WHY? Sarah wanted to go. The Eccelstone connection is from her Paddy days. She wanted to go and be seen there. They invited the princesses and that is how she went as Eugenie's plus one.

A main reason that Charles doesn't want them involved is because he can't trust that they won't show up at ROYAL engagements or events without mummy in tow. She chose to leave the family and won't leave. He has to do what he has to do, so that he can sleep at night and not worry about what kind of headlines come from Royal Lodge.

That is my two cents worth. Don't mean to offend anyone.

 

[Lumutqueen]

I think that Charles has let it be known what he is planning. He didn't lead the York Princesses around. He told them straight. It is their father and probably their mother who are not listening and pushing this.

When did he tell them straight?

ITheir little contrempts with Kate didn't help things with William and probably Uncle Charles either.

Curtsying is a non issue, you should pop over to the precedence thread and find out why. Not sure what you mean by the outfits because Bea and Eugenie have had a history of bad outfits, they just don't know where they fit but they're getting better. What exactly does a supposed match between Cressida and Henry got to do with doing royal engagements?

Ultimately however why, if anything happened between Catherine and the York girls, would that effect the best outcome for representing this country on a global stage?

IThe York Princesses chose to go to a Branson wedding over a family event about a year ago at Christmastime. The went to the Eccelstone wedding. WHY? Sarah wanted to go. .

You do realise that Prince William missed his cousins wedding to go to a friends wedding in SA? That was because it was arranged before Peter's wedding. Same as the Branson event and the Ecclestone wedding. Beatrice and Eugenie don't seem like the type of girls who go place, who back out on their grandmother because Sarah wants to flaunt her connections. They went because they're friends with Hollie and the Ecclestone girl.

 

[Iluvbertie]

... forcing her to curtsy to them, ...

If this is a reference to the reports relating to private precedence issued by The Queen then you are sadly mistaken.

The Queen changed the private precedence in 2005 when Camilla married Charles to put blood princesses ahead of married in princesses so that Anne and Alexandra were privately ahead of Camilla - but only when there were only women present anyway.

As Beatrice and Eugenie weren't 'of age' at the time they weren't included. By 2011 they were both over 18/21 and so took their precedence according to the 2005 directive anyway which is why they are ahead of Kate. That is nothing to do with them or Sarah or Andrew but a decision of The Queen's made in 2005.

This precedence refers to things like who enters a room first and not necessarily anything to do with curtseying.

As soon as any man is present the precedence reverts to precedence based on the man's precedence with Kate taking her precedence according to William's.

 

[cepe]

I think that Charles has let it be known what he is planning. He didn't lead the York Princesses around. He told them straight. It is their father and probably their mother who are not listening and pushing this.

The girls are in a tough spot. Trying to please their parents when their uncle has said no and their grandmother is staying out of it. She is deferring to Charles on this. Don't see how the girls and Andrew are going to win this. The public doesn't want them on the rota, so there is no reason to go out on the limb for them.

Their little contrempts with Kate didn't help things with William and probably Uncle Charles either. That to me is Sarah all the way. ( The outfits for the wedding, setting Harry up with Cressida, forcing her to curtsy to them, and who knows what else that we don't know about.)

The York Princesses chose to go to a Branson wedding over a family event about a year ago at Christmastime. The went to the Eccelstone wedding. WHY? Sarah wanted to go. The Eccelstone connection is from her Paddy days. She wanted to go and be seen there. They invited the princesses and that is how she went as Eugenie's plus one.

A main reason that Charles doesn't want them involved is because he can't trust that they won't show up at ROYAL engagements or events without mummy in tow. She chose to leave the family and won't leave. He has to do what he has to do, so that he can sleep at night and not worry about what kind of headlines come from Royal Lodge.

That is my two cents worth. Don't mean to offend anyone.

Hi Cynderella. Welcome - I see that you are quite new. I think that it would help your knowledge of the BRF, who does what etc if you have a good read of some of the wide range of posts. It's what I did when I joined last year and I've learnt a huge amount from the experienced posters.

Your comments do not reference any sources and if you are relying in anyway on the British press to guide you, I would advise caution. They are mostly rags full of gossip, mainly developed by the journalists themselves.

However if you do have a sources of the information in your posts, please share it - we would all be interested.

 

[Cynderella]

Thank you cepe.

I have a great deal of information here at my disposal. I guess I will have to post all of it. I have read all of the post for several years before deciding to join in.

 

[Cynderella]

Let me explain.

William has a very secure future within the Royal House of Windsor. He can go to anyone's wedding he wants. I am sure he worked it out with his cousin, Peter.
The York Princesses want a toehold on the working family tree. They decided to go to a celebrity wedding. Maybe, you could see it for Beatrice going to the Branson wedding with Dave, since he works for Mr. Branson, but Eugenie?

Serious working members of the House of Windsor are not celebrities. They don't go to film premieres if there isn't a charity componet for one of their charities. They don't walk red carpets just to get their picture in the paper.

Beatrice and Eugenie are stuck in a gray area trying to include their mother in a life she turned her back on years ago. She isn't going to be included in Royal events, but they get lots of invitations to celebrity events that she can go to, so they do that with her. They shouldn't be doing that if they really want to be working Royals. Their relationship with their mother should be a private one.

 

[Lumutqueen]

The York Princesses want a toehold on the working family tree.

There should not be one rule for William and one rule for Beatrice and Eugenie. In fact it should be the other way around. Also - how do you know they want a toehold? And if they do, why shouldn't they be allowed to contribute to their country?

Serious working members of the House of Windsor are not celebrities. They don't go to film premieres if there isn't a charity componet for one of their charities. They don't walk red carpets just to get their picture in the paper.

Could you tell me the charity components of the 007 event, or the premiere of War Horse for William. The royal family do events that they are asked to do, red carpet or not. You can also deny it all you like but William, Henry and Catherine are also major celebrities.

She isn't going to be included in Royal events, but they get lots of invitations to celebrity events that she can go to, so they do that with her. They shouldn't be doing that if they really want to be working Royals. Their relationship with their mother should be a private one.

You do realise that this is their mother you're talking to? You're expecting them to turn their back on their mother because she doesn't fit in. I haven't seen Sarah out with the girls since possibly the middle of last year. You don't know that Sarah isn't the one invited and asks the girls as company.

I'm still waiting on an answer for when Charles told the girls "straight"?

 

[HRHHermione]

Their relationship with their mother should be a private one.

Their relationship with their mother IS a private one. Sarah does not attend any official royal functions. Or are you implying that they should never be spotted in public with their mother at all? Never have dinner with her or attend any functions where she's present?

Because quite honestly, that's a totally absurd standard to impose on ANYONE.

 

[Iluvbertie]

Serious working members of the House of Windsor are not celebrities. They don't go to film premieres if there isn't a charity componet for one of their charities. They don't walk red carpets just to get their picture in the paper.

When royals attend an event connected to a charity or due to an official position it is mentioned in the Court Circular with the engagement.

For War Horse this was the entry: ST. JAMES'S PALACE:
The Duke and Duchess of Cambridge this evening attended the United Kingdom Film Premiere of "War Horse" at the Odeon Cinema, Leicester Square, London WC2, followed by a Reception at The Queen's Gallery, Buckingham Palace.

No mention of any charity or any position held by either William or Kate. It was simply an outing to wave at the people and walk the red carpet - as the celebrities they are.

Compare that entry to Anne's for the rugby this past weekend: BUCKINGHAM PALACE:
The Princess Royal, Patron, Scottish Rugby Union, accompanied by Vice Admiral Sir Tim Laurence, this afternoon attended the International Rugby Match between England and Scotland at Twickenham Stadium, Middlesex

The reason she was there was because of her official position and it was mentioned in the CC to make that clear.

 

[MichelleQ2]

When royals attend an event connected to a charity or due to an official position it is mentioned in the Court Circular with the engagement.

For War Horse this was the entry: ST. JAMES'S PALACE:
The Duke and Duchess of Cambridge this evening attended the United Kingdom Film Premiere of "War Horse" at the Odeon Cinema, Leicester Square, London WC2, followed by a Reception at The Queen's Gallery, Buckingham Palace.

No mention of any charity or any position held by either William or Kate. It was simply an outing to wave at the people and walk the red carpet - as the celebrities they are.

.

Getting off topic... But the War Horse Premiere was a fund raiser for their foundation

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-16461379

 

[miche]

Getting off topic... But the War Horse Premiere was a fund raiser for their foundation

BBC News - War Horse premiere attended by duke and duchess

Thank you. I know some don't like William and Kate but...

iirc, that was reported in the press release and multiple news site, including the one you link

Here is talk about the foundation on their website

http://www.dukeandduchessofcambridg...cambridge-attend-the-uk-premiere-of-war-horse

 

[Susanna Wynne]

It appears to me that "the bottom line" is this: Andrew is not particularly popular with the British media and public; Sarah is... well, we all know where Sarah stands with public and media opinion. The York girls, who appear to be nice, well-meaning girls, cannot escape being the children of these two. And, unfortunately, they lack the spectacular charisma of William, Harry and Catherine, and their images suffer by comparison. It certainly is not their fault but it is a fact. They smiled sweetly and, I'm sure, did their level best in their recent adventure in Deutchland on behalf of British trade, but neither of them projects that somewhat indefinable "It" factor. So it makes little sense to me that there would be a serious effort on the part of "the powers that be" to elevate their public profiles. And, please note, Lumutqueen, before you take me to task, that this is my opinion and speculation. But it comes from lots of reading, listening and observing.

 

[Lumutqueen]

I And, please note, Lumutqueen, before you take me to task, that this is my opinion and speculation. But it comes from lots of reading, listening and observing.

You will find that I agree with you, because many a time I have asked people to explain to me without using the words "Sarah", "Andrew" or "parent" why these two girls cannot work in the BRF.

William and Catherine have very little charisma to me, they are lucky in their age and timing. Catherine also has the ability to wear beautiful clothes. Henry is far more interesting IMO.

I just think the two girls should be given a chance.

 

[Iluvbertie]

I actually see the York girls as having way more charisma or interest then William, Kate or Harry who are fairly bland. The only interest that these three have is what will be the next scandal?

 

[camelot23ca]

I think that William, Kate and Harry are more inherently charismatic people than the York princesses, but they're also seen as more charismatic because of their ages and their position in the family. They'll be less interesting at 55 than they are now in their late twenties and thirties, and if the situations were reversed and it was Beatrice and Eugenie who were the future monarch and her sister then no doubt they would be the stars of the family.

Charisma and "it" factor can only take you so far, IMO. I wouldn't say people like The Princess Royal or The Wessexes are especially charismatic, but they've all done incredible work for the BRF. Beatrice and Eugenie may never be stars, but if they're nice enough, reasonably articulate and willing to take on some royal duties, I say great! They'll get out from their parents' shadow, IMO, as time goes on and the public sees them independently representing the family.

 

[NGalitzine]

Their relationship with their mother IS a private one. Sarah does not attend any official royal functions. Or are you implying that they should never be spotted in public with their mother at all? Never have dinner with her or attend any functions where she's present?

Because quite honestly, that's a totally absurd standard to impose on ANYONE.

Actually yes, I seriously do believe it would be better for the girls not to be seen publically with their mother with the possible exception of their wedding days. They can see her all they want in private settings. I do believe Sarah would have done them a great favour by following her own mothers example and moving permanently to Argentina or perhaps joining her sister in Australia. It maybe harsh, but their mothers reputation is so bad that being linked so closely with her damages the girls own reputations. It may not be fair but life isnt fair.

 

[Lumutqueen]

Actually yes, I seriously do believe it would be better for the girls not to be seen publically with their mother with the possible exception of their wedding days.

The child is not the parent. Simple.

 

[Irish Eyes]

Actually yes, I seriously do believe it would be better for the girls not to be seen publically with their mother with the possible exception of their wedding days. They can see her all they want in private settings. I do believe Sarah would have done them a great favour by following her own mothers example and moving permanently to Argentina or perhaps joining her sister in Australia. It maybe harsh, but their mothers reputation is so bad that being linked so closely with her damages the girls own reputations. It may not be fair but life isnt fair.

You are entitled to your opinion NGalitzine (isn't that why we all joined this forum), but I find it hard to begrudge the girls their nights out with their Mother. I think dinner with Sarah is completely different to her joining them on a trip such as the one they carried out on behalf of the government recently. Sarah's mother moving to Argentina didn't work out great for her, so she was never going to follow that exampe. NGalitzine I enjoy reading your opinions so please don't take offence.

 

[Zonk]

Let's get back on topic...the duties and roles of Beatrice and Eugenie.

 

[Princess B]

Sarah's reputation has undoubtedly ruined any chances of a royal role for Beatrice and Eugenie.

While they should be given a chance, considering the Kents, Gloucester's, the Queen and Prince Philip may not be able to carry out duties for long ( either due to old age and death). I'm aware that the duties can be split between William, Kate, Harry and his future wife.

There's a reason there are so many people carrying out royal duties at the moment.

I'm suspecting that Beatrice and Eugenie will carry out some official duties like the Prince and Princess Michael of Kent have done, but those won't be significant or too many.

I've heard people say that if they atop using their HRH Princess styles it's going to be easier to get a job. We already know they are princesses. Besides people with experience find it difficult to get jobs, I'm sure it'll be tougher for them!

 

[Iluvbertie]

The Duke of Gloucester is only 4 years older than Charles so will be around for many years yet.

The Duke of Kent and Princess Alexandra did about 350 engagements between them last year - something Kate could pick up on her own and add more as well - she is a senior royal so 500 - 600 is the expectation in about 10 years time by which time the Kents will be hardly ever seen. She is already being groomed to take on many of the Duke of Kent's duties to do with Wimbledon.

Prince and Princess Michael very rarely carry out independent royal duties - last year, for instance, all their duties were in conjunction with other royals such as the Jubilee and they only managed about 20 each in that regard. Bea and Eugenie did about as many last year as did the Micheals and they did some with The Queen (Beatrice and Maundy Service) and Eugenie with her father.

Beatrice already has a job while Eugenie is doing internships to get a job - that is how Beatrice got hers - internships and then some extra study. Being a princess didn't stop Beatrice getting her job and it won't stop Eugenie.

They aren't needed.

What is needed in the short and long term is for William and Harry to leave the military to take on full time duties to take over from The Queen, Philip, the Duke of Kent and Princess Alexandra - the ones over 70 who currently are doing about 12% of all the engagements - The Queen and The Duke of Kent do most of those now.

 

[Meadow]

Is there a difference between Royal Duties and just being at Royal Events? The Jubilee was a public celebration where the whole family joined in I don't count that as Beatrice and Eugenie doing Royal Duties even Zara and Peter and Louise etc where all there too. A Royal Duty is something a Royal has been invited too and is in the Court circular or have I got is mixed up? It the trooping of the family considered Royal Duties you see everyone on the balcony from adults to children? Just trying to get it clear in my own head really. I don't think the girls will ever have Royal Duties as such because if they did they would have to be put on the Royal Payroll and that is what it seems Charles wants to avoid doing and the Queen by not doing it herself seems to concur. Beatrice and Eugenie should just work and if they want to do some charity work off their own bat then great they have done very well out of being Grandchildren of the Queen and have had years of security and even live in a Palace with very cheap rent which they don't even pay for. So giving something back won't kill them. The Queen is doing her duty she want's William to have a life before he get's stuck with doing 500 engagements a year and not being able to spend time with his family etc I don't think there is anything wrong with that. When he is King I'm sure he and Kate will step up but at the moment his father is the Prince of Wales and William has a long way to go before he is King. When he leaves the RAF I'm sure he will do more but he also needs time for his now expanding family. He has a lifetime of duty ahead and if the Queen and his father are happy for him and his wife to take their time then great. They don't seem to be complaining about the number of engagements they have to do.

The Queen could live for another 15 years or more and in that time I see William taking on more responsibilities but not yet. His father is the one who is going to be the next King although it is looking like Charles could be in his late seventies or eighties before he reaches the throne. I think it must be a horrible position to be in he has been waiting his entire life to be King and he may never even get there. Does anyone know when Princess Margaret and the Queen Mother died did all their Patronages etc get covered by other members of the Royal Family or were some dropped altogether? I know Diana dropped a lot of charities and the then Duchess of York would have too. Does anyone know how that worked?

 

[Iluvbertie]

Any duty listed in the CC is an official duty and all HRHs were listed there for the many of the Jubilee events while people like Peter and Zara weren't.

That is what determines an official duty - the CC and the CC is approved by The Queen.

There is on such thing as a 'royal payroll'. What there is is a payment to The Queen. She decides who she will support.

Clearly Charles and William don't want to support the girls and the downside of that is that they will have to step up and to the duties - particularly William and Kate and Harry and Harry's wife in about 25 years time when there is no one else and William is either stepping in for an aging King or is King himself with his own children still in their early 20s and Harry's off course expected to follow Beatrice and Eugenie.

In about 30 years there will be probably William, Kate, Harry, Spouse, William and Kate's two children, - so 6 whereas now there is 15. Of course William and Kate's children will expect to be able to do very little into their 30s like their parents were particularly if they have young children.

There is no need for the girls as there are plenty of royals to do the work into their 80s and 90s now with 3 or 4 to replace the current ones over 60 - (currently 9)

This idea of course also means Harry has to start thinking about when he is going to leave the army as he will be needed in the next 10 years to fill the gap of the aging royals.

 

[MARG]

Clearly Charles and William don't want to support the girls . . . . .

Do you have a reliable reference to indicate that Charles and William do indeed feel this way or are you extrapolating this from the various anti-York tabloid tidbits?

 

[Meadow]

Thank you for that Iluvbertie. I am aware on the Queen and Duke of E get money from the government and the Queen pays for the members who do Royal Duties that is what I meant by Royal Payroll. So the CC is the what to watch. I don't really see things changing for Beatrice or Eugenie or they would off been doing a lot more by now. Charles isn't going to come right out and say he won't include Bea and Eugenie but he has made it clear he wants things streamlined he has done interviews where he has talked about a smaller Royal Family. I don't think he will go into detail out of respect for Queen it's probabaly an awkward conversation I mean he can't do what he wants until she has passed away. And no one likes to talk about that I for one hope the Queen lives till 100. We are also getting a lot of stories about Andrew and his wishes for them to have a Royal role, we all know that some Royals use the press Charles has for years and I'm sure others have too. The stories are coming from somewhere and while the press make up a lot this has been around for several years and Charles has made no effort to show any different. I don't think Harry needs to rush leaving his career, Andrew was in the Navy for years and did duties, raised a family etc. If it makes Harry happy I don't see Charles asking him to give it up especially as eventually he will be down the ladder further when Catherine and William have their 2 kids. Maybe they will have more? Until things change or someone gives an interview clearing things up no one will really know the truth. (sorry for the spelling errors I was in hospital yesterday! Not 100 per cent but getting there)

 

[Mirabel]

Beatrice already has a job while Eugenie is doing internships to get a job - that is how Beatrice got hers - internships and then some extra study. Being a princess didn't stop Beatrice getting her job and it won't stop Eugenie.

Does Beatrice truly have a job?
In the comments about their latest outing with Fergie, it was said that what both York girls have are only internships; neither has a full-time job yet.

 

[Iluvbertie]

When she went to Germany it was said that she was using her holiday time to go and her employer was ok with her doing that and that Eugenie has an internship.

It was reported last year that Beatrice had a job with a venture capital firm in London but the name of the firm has never been announced.

Internships are full-time - unpaid.

My understanding is that Beatrice has a full-time paid job and that Eugenie is still doing internships.