Duke and Duchess of Windsor (1894-1972) and (1895-1986)

[Russophile]

Last of the off topic: reading bio. on Pam Churchill "Reflected Glory". In 1938 she went to Paris and Munich for finishing school. When Lady Digby (Pam's mother) objected to her hostess, a certain Countess something or other, about the anti-Semetic propaganda, she told her to hush, lest somebody was there listening. An english gal named Sarah Norton, I believe WAS sent home from Munich as she was caught taking down anti-Semetic material.
You can't tell me that people didn't know something awful was going on. There just weren't enough Sarah Norton's to go around. And I don't believe Wallis and Edward were any different. People always SAY they would react differently, however, unless faced with the decision to ACT we do not know what they would do.
David was not King, he never had to ACT on any rumors or confirmation of the Holocaust.

 

[Blackadder]

It might have been easier if one was a foreigner. You mustn't forget that people in Germany, and after the annexation Austria too, weren't living in democracy or monarchy. They were living in a dictatorship. They didn't have TV, their papers were controlled by the party, listening to foreign radio stations like BBC could have brought you to prison very easily. When my father once went to a party in Vienna, he was famous for being outspoken, and said that he thought "this Hitler is a miserable ***hole", someone came to him and replied: "Say this again and I'll tell it to the Gestapo." Some knew, some didn't, some didn't want to know. I think it depends on where you lived, if you lived in a large city, like Berlin or Vienna, you could have known certain details. A lot of the not so interested, not so well educated people on the countryside, far away from concentration camps, supposably didn't know. I've heard stories of people who said that their Jewish friends disappeared and yes, they knew something awful was going on, but they never thought they'd be killed. And I know Jews who tell me they believe the Americans knew what was going on, but they didn't help them. It's an endless and complicated story, I was born in 1946 and I'm questioning and studying this time for more than thirty years now.

Back on topic. I think someone like Edward could have known what happened in Germany if he had wanted to. But I'm not too sure, perhaps he wouldn't have believed those rumours either.

 

[Lumutqueen]

The royal jewel thieves: The REAL story behind the gems given by a besotted Duke of Windsor to a grasping Wallis Simpson - which this week fetched record prices | Mail Online

There is a TV show on Channel 4 called Any Human Heart, it details the life of Logan Mountstuart and how he looks after The Duke and Duchess of Windsor in the Bahamas and Spain.

It portrays them as very vindictive, talks a lot about the Duke laundering money from countries and even that he tried to have someone murdered.

The Duke is played by Tom Hollander.
The Duchess is played by Gillian Anderson.

 

[AnnEliza]

I have question for everyone, do you think that if allowed following the abdication and the marriage, do you think it was possible for the Windsor to come back to England and assume roles as junior members of the Royal Family.

From what I have read about them, no. They effectively held a court wherever they were, and I think they would never have wanted to appear "second best" to the King and Queen. They showed no tendency (until Wallis left part of her estate to charity) to do any charity work, and isn't that pretty much what junior members of the Royal Family do? I think it's likely there would have been a lot of squabbling and jostling for place, and two competing courts. And supporters would have surrounded them who believed he was still the rightful King. Wasn't that the carrot Hitler dangled in front of them, that he would put Edward back on the throne, and they found that idea attractive? I think it would have been a disaster if they had been allowed to live in Britain after abdicating.

 

[Lenora]

Those times there wasn't a tendency to do charitywork at all,so we cannot blamae the Duke and Wallis for this matter

 

[Zonk]

Those times there wasn't a tendency to do charitywork at all,so we cannot blamae the Duke and Wallis for this matter

During those times, there was VERY much a tendency to do charity work. There were quite a number of royal ladies (and non royal ladies as well) who did charity work. And really, that is just an excuse IMO. IF you want to do something to help people, does it matter if no one else does it? You should do it anyway.

 

[Lenora]

Yes,maybe Wallis didn't think about it or wasn't serious enough.As I've understood Wallis had a very sad life after the death of her husband,as she had no children or close relatives.

 

[AnnEliza]

Yes,maybe Wallis didn't think about it or wasn't serious enough.As I've understood Wallis had a very sad life after the death of her husband,as she had no children or close relatives.

I have never been much of a fan of Wallis, but the photo of her sad face in his funeral procession did touch my heart -- she looked so lost, and I know what it is like to be widowed. I never hated her or anything, but that doesn't mean I think she and Edward would have made a good King and Queen.

 

[Zonk]

Yes, it is sad when a husband/wife leaves a spouse. But the same thing happened to the Queen Mother.

And both of them had relatives, its just thru their actions...they became the everything to each other. Wallis didn't even attend her Aunt Bessiewallis 100th birthday celebration...and she was there for her thru thick and thin.

 

[Lenora]

I have never been much of a fan of Wallis, but the photo of her sad face in his funeral procession did touch my heart -- she looked so lost, and I know what it is like to be widowed. I never hated her or anything, but that doesn't mean I think she and Edward would have made a good King and Queen.

I think if Wallis and Edward had had a child ,he would have probably claimed his rights to the throne

 

[Zonk]

I think if Wallis and Edward had had a child ,he would have probably claimed his rights to the throne

That is not true.

When Edward abdicated the throne, he also abdicated the throne for any children he might have had with Wallis. According to the Act of Abdication:

Any future descendants of Edward VIII would, however, not have a claim to the throne and would not be bound by the Royal Marriages Act 1772.

 

[Russophile]

Those times there wasn't a tendency to do charitywork at all,so we cannot blamae the Duke and Wallis for this matter

Do not forget your Queen Mary quote: "You are a member of the British royal family. We are never tired, and we all love hospitals."

 

[AnnEliza]

Yes, it is sad when a husband/wife leaves a spouse. But the same thing happened to the Queen Mother.

And both of them had relatives, its just thru their actions...they became the everything to each other. Wallis didn't even attend her Aunt Bessiewallis 100th birthday celebration...and she was there for her thru thick and thin.

You're right, it happened to the Queen Mother too -- and sooner than it happened to Wallis.

Yes, now that you mention it, I do remember reading about that once, that Wallis did not visit her Aunt Bessiewallis at that time. I have always had this impression that Wallis and Edward(David) were very self-absorbed.

 

[Lenora]

You're right, it happened to the Queen Mother too -- and sooner than it happened to Wallis.

Don't forget that Queen Mother had 2 daughters ,Wallis had no children and just few friends,the Duke was her breath and sense of life

 

[gfg02]

Iconic couples: Wallis Simpson and Edward VIII

Iconic couples: Wallis Simpson and Edward VIII - hellomagazine.com

 

[Jeniann]

Check out this interview with the Windsors from the BBC.

There's some interesting things they talk about.

 

[CordeliaFitzgerald]

So I was browsing the "Royal House of Fashion" section looking for a topic on Wallis and was surprised to discover there wasn't one available there for her. I may just have to create one!

 

[ladongas]

Why not Wallis?

Apparently Churchill said, "why shouldn't the King marry his tootsie?" and a courtier (or someone) replied, "because the British public does not want a Queen tootsie".

Another story is that if a man said in a pub, "I slept with the Queen of England," that every other man there would beat him senseless. Whereas, with Wallis, who had two ex-husbands, no similar rejoinder would be possible.

I don't know if these stories are other than apocryphal, and I can't produce links, but I have read them in more than one place. Does anyone else recall these anecdotes?

 

[Zonk]

I have heard of the first one...though my version had the term cutie. Because the British public doesn't want a Queen Cutie. I recall reading that in the Royal Fued.

 

[ladongas]

I have heard of the first one...though my version had the term cutie. Because the British public doesn't want a Queen Cutie. I recall reading that in the Royal Fued.

Thanks, I knew tootsie didn't sound exactly right. I'm still looking for a link for the other comment; I suppose it could have been in a movie or a novel.

I agree with all who believe that Wallis did the country a favor when she got "David" out of the picture. But I did have a bit of sympathy for her when I read Wallis and Edward by Michael Bloch, a book of letters between the two of them. It was obvious that he loved her more than she did him, and it seemed that she really didn't want to marry him. She sort of got stuck and had to follow through, regardless of her own feelings. Oh, well, she stuck with him to the end, anyway.

Did you know that their country home outside Paris is now available as a vacation rental property? I rather think they would have hated that!

Rent the Duke & Duchess of Windsor’s Country Retreat

 

[ladongas]

"slept with the Queen"

I did find a source of the man in the pub comment, although I don't believe I ever read the book. I googled Wallis and "slept with the Queen" and got a view of several pages of the book:

Sex with Kings: 500 Years of Adultery, Power, Rivalry, and Revenge
By Eleanor Herman

Here's the quote:

"Agreeing with the age-old adage that the bedded can't be wedded, a patron of a London pub reportedly said, "It just won't do. We can't have two other blokes going around saying they've slept with the Queen of England, can we?"

And another:
"Like a triumphant cat bringing home the carcass of a vanquished chipmunk to his horrified owner, Edward dumped the sacred gift of his abdication in his mistress's lap."

And yet another:
"Like cracked and peeling portraits of their former selves, they became yellowed by tobacco, dried up by alcohol."



There seem to be some chapters about Charles and Camilla as well; I don't know if they are as snide as the parts about the Duke and Duchess.

http://tinyurl.com/4hyqunb

 

[Vasillisos Markos]

I love it!! I wonder if some wag thought it up, then attributed the statement to some "anonymous" patron in a pub.

 

[Osipi]

I love it!! I wonder if some wag thought it up, then attributed the statement to some "anonymous" patron in a pub.

I am definitely putting this book on my "to read" list. It really sounds like an interesting read.

 

[CarolinaLandgrave]

Was the marriage of a king to a twice divorced American really the issue the British government had with Wallis... or was it her know pro-German/Nazi sympathies....?
Churchill's government had a win-win situation here to get rid of Wallis and in turn get rid of David...
Not a big fan of the late Duke and Duchess.... I think David was selfish, spoiled, and immature and Wallis was a gold-digging, manipulative, evil woman.... like I said -just my opinion...
But Heaven was certainly shining on the English when David abdicated... they dodged a MAJOR bullet!

 

[scooter]

There is 'Sex with Queens' by the same author as well.

 

[Iluvbertie]

The government certainly had other reasons for getting rid of David - including his own lack of propriety with top secret documents.

Churchill had nothing to do with it. He was a great supporter of David and actually advised him to stick it out. Churchill was out of office at the time - the 1930s were 'The Wilderness Years' for Churchill. He doesn't come into the picture as a major player in the history of resistance to the Nazis until 1940s when he becomes PM, after Chamberlain who succeeded Baldwin - who was the PM who wanted David gone, as did the Archbishop of Canterbury.

Wallis was a great excuse but there were a number of reasons to do with David himself.

 

[CarolinaLandgrave]

David was very taken with Adolph Hitler was well, wasn't he? Wasn't it he who supposedly leaked out that the Allies had cracked Hitler's codes?
FDR had the FBI watch the Duke and Duchess closely when they were in America as well, correct?

 

[Iluvbertie]

David was very taken with Adolph Hitler was well, wasn't he? Wasn't it he who supposedly leaked out that the Allies had cracked Hitler's codes?
FDR had the FBI watch the Duke and Duchess closely when they were in America as well, correct?

David, like a lot of British aristocrats in the mid-30s was taken with Hitler's economic recovery in Germany. He was also slow to change his opinion. George VI and the Queen Mum were also of the same mind in the mid-30s - but changed their views in either 37 or 38 whereas David takes until about 1940 to become anti-Nazi to an extent.

As the Allies were still reading the top secret German codes at the end of the war without the Germans having the knowledge that the Allies had cracked the codes I don't think David told the Germans that at all. The Germans simply didn't know the British had an enigma machine and thus had the means to read all German codes.

 

[CarolinaLandgrave]

I'll have to dig out that National Geographic episode I recently and get the details from it.... I was quite sure they reported that David had leaked info about the codes and also leaked info that caused Hitler to change the direction of his invasion of France.... and also that Churchill was instrumental in getting the Duke and Duchess to Bermuda and out of the goings on in Europe... where the Duke and Duchess were to controversial.
Having visited Germany on Hitler's dime... having the Fascist friends/supporters in Spain and Portugal....

 

[Royal Fan]

not to be Political but as a FORMER Monarch could he have been tried as a War Criminal