Duke and Duchess of Windsor (1894-1972) and (1895-1986)

[Denville]

I suppose he grew up in the days of the upper-classes and the (for lack of a nicer expression) nouveaux riches doing the Season and then going from one house party to another … he was only around 20 when the First World War broke out, and that lifestyle began to die out then, but it was still going in the 1920s. He just stuck with that sort of life, even though society was changing.

of course yes it was the lifestyle of the upper classes Edwardian and Victorian - but at least some of them had some duties.. managing estates, being in Parliament, charity things. David had had 20 years of doing royal duties, which he did fairly well but with a lot of complaining abuot how boring it all was. but I think that when he abdicated, he WAS bored... and while he didn't mind the social life, I think that was more Wallis' thing than his. If he had been a reader, he might have put in the empty hours studying or reading.. He had his garden but it seems that that was about it.
there Is that well known story of his telling some American Lady how he had put In the day, waiting for Wallis to finish her French lesson, watching American soldiers playng football, and clearly feeling miserable.

 

[Denville]

I dont think that was the case though? I understood that Wallis received everything and it was her own property absolutely.. Because Im sure I've read that Mountbatten tried to persuade her to leave her property back to the RF or in some way, but it was her property and she could choose to do what she liked with it..

Having looked at some stuff, it appears that Mountbatten did try to persuade hr to leave stuff back to the RF and/or England but after a while, Wallis grew annoyed at his pushing and wrote to him to say that she didn't want to discuss her Will or where to leave her things, and that he was to stop it..

 

[Furienna]

David just looked very sad as an older man - it's in his eyes. I'm not saying he regretted abdicating, but no matter how he acted, no matter what kind of dilettante he was, I'm sure down deep he still loved and missed his family. I don't think he ever expected that he'd essentially never see them again. Of course he behaved badly, but by the time he was an old man, weakened with age, those days were a long time ago. It's a rather pathetic life.

Yeah... I don't really agree with all the hatred, that David gets from some people. Rather, I feel sorry for him.

 

[Furienna]

Sadly he seemed to spend his entire life buying expensive trinkets to keep Wallis happy. Sadly, a cache of letters discovered in the late 20th century proved once and for all that she didn't love him, never had and had never intended to divorce the love of her life, Earnest, whilst for him she was the love of his life.

Right... But if Earnest was the love of her life, why did she have an affair with David?

 

[Denville]

Right... But if Earnest was the love of her life, why did she have an affair with David?

He was rich and the Prince of Wales..

 

[Betsypaige]

Yeah... I don't really agree with all the hatred, that David gets from some people. Rather, I feel sorry for him.

Believe me, David’s actions bother me a great deal - his selfishness as a younger man was outrageous, ever after his brother had become king. I do feel sorry for the old man he became ...

 

[Denville]

Believe me, David’s actions bother me a great deal - his selfishness as a younger man was outrageous, ever after his brother had become king. I do feel sorry for the old man he became ...

I woudlnt waste any sympathy on either of them. They led a life of luxury, even during the War when Britain suffered privations. Then after the War they led a very comfortable life, with no taxes, In France...

 

[Durham]

I woudlnt waste any sympathy on either of them. They led a life of luxury, even during the War when Britain suffered privations. Then after the War they led a very comfortable life, with no taxes, In France...

Privations continued after the war as well. For many years in fact. Some rationing remained until 1954. So, no it's hard to feel sorry for them although at the same time there is so much pathos in the sight of a former British monarch leading an empty existence in cafe society.

 

[Curryong]

But as we've discussed here, that was the choice both he and Wallis made, at least when they were both younger and in good health. Nothing was stopping either of them from doing good in the world, taking up some charity work instead of filling their days with luncheons and dinner parties and trans-Atlantic jaunts on the big ocean liners. They just weren't interested.

 

[Denville]

But as we've discussed here, that was the choice both he and Wallis made, at least when they were both younger and in good health. Nothing was stopping either of them from doing good in the world, taking up some charity work instead of filling their days with luncheons and dinner parties and trans-Atlantic jaunts on the big ocean liners. They just weren't interested.

I think that David at least got worse and more selfish as he got older. He did do a respectable job at the Tours and so on as POW and he was involved In charities for ex servicemen, wasn't he? But I think he got fed up with it all and just wanted to have no "duties" in his post King life. Or maybe he followed Wallis' lead. I don't think she was ever interested in charity wrok, I don't know if it was an American tradition among "society ladies" in the US in her time, to do charity wrok (I am not disparaging American women, just that I don't know much about "high Society" in the US)…
I think if there was anything "sad" about it, it was that David DID probably feel very bored with nothing planned for him. He was used to someone organising his life and giving him thngs to do.. but IMO He had no strong interests of his own, it seems except gardening. So when he lost his work, as POW, he didn't have anything to do or the initiave to sort out a new life for himself....
I think Wallis was happy enough running her house, organising parties, traveling, buying clothes, going to parties etc... but he wasn't all that fond of it. I got the feeling that while he liked a life of leisure, he didn't want to go out dancing and dining.. he fancied a quiet life of leisure...

 

[Denville]

Was Edward VIII concerned for the ceremonial and symbolic responsibilities of kingship?

He walked out on being King less than a year from his father's death. Does that sound like someone who was concenred about Kingship?

 

[Denville]

Was Edward VIII concerned for the ceremonial and symbolic responsibilities of kingship?

He walked out on being King less than a year from his father's death. Does that sound like someone who was concerned about Kingship?

 

[Betsypaige]

deleted post

 

[Durham]

He walked out on being King less than a year from his father's death. Does that sound like someone who was concerned about Kingship?

Well no it doesn't. Although the sentence does come across as rather blunt. I'm sure it wasn't meant to was it??

 

[Prinsara]

When he was the Prince of Wales, did not Edward speak about any future accomplishments he would like to be involved with when he was the King?

His famous quote was "Something must be done", after seeing the unemployment in the Welsh mining valleys.

Now it's early 20th century royal speak and I'm sure even David was moved by the poverty and privation he saw, however he did not say the "something" needed to be done or headed by him. ?

 

[Denville]

When he was the Prince of Wales, did not Edward speak about any future accomplishments he would like to be involved with when he was the King?

No I don't believe he did. He was very ambivalent about being King..

 

[Denville]

His famous quote was "Something must be done", after seeing the unemployment in the Welsh mining valleys.

Now it's early 20th century royal speak and I'm sure even David was moved by the poverty and privation he saw, however he did not say the "something" needed to be done or headed by him. ?

As I recall he was King then.. but was considering abdication.. so his Something must be done, was hardly any serious plan to be of help to the poor..

 

[Durham]

As I recall he was King then.. but was considering abdication.. so his Something must be done, was hardly any serious plan to be of help to the poor..

Yes he was king & as you say already thinking about going. So, in retrospect a pointless thing for him to say. Not to mention annoying for the government
as well as overstepping his constitutional remit.

 

[Denville]

Yes he was king & as you say already thinking about going. So, in retrospect a pointless thing for him to say. Not to mention annoying for the government
as well as overstepping his constitutional remit.

Yes it was.. and was qute empty as well, because he was planning on leaving.. and he did not do very much after his abdication in the charity line.

 

[sndral]

When he was the Prince of Wales, did not Edward speak about any future accomplishments he would like to be involved with when he was the King?

From what I’ve read he was pretty involved in certain causes while POW, so much so that there were concerns that he was too outspoken/political. He definitely wanted to modernize the monarchy. This article summarizes some of his work as POW https://www.historyextra.com/period/20th-century/real-edward-viii-nazi-sympathiser-reformer-soldier/
He was a complex character.

 

[Denville]

From what I’ve read he was pretty involved in certain causes while POW, so much so that there were concerns that he was too outspoken/political. He definitely wanted to modernize the monarchy. This article summarizes some of his work as POW https://www.historyextra.com/period/20th-century/real-edward-viii-nazi-sympathiser-reformer-soldier/
He was a complex character.

Not realy. His ideas of modernising the monarchy were mostly concerned with saving money (getting rid of staff) and reducing ceremony.. His "political" remarks were not of any significance, since he was already on his way out of the monarchy when he made them. After his abdication he showed little interest In doing anyting to help others or improve the world.

 

[MARG]

^^^^^ Too true. He and his wife spent a life of useless excess. They did not involve themselves with the little people just the cafe society and general titled riff raff that swamped Europe and France after WWII.

 

[CyrilVladisla]

Would you say that Edward wanting to step down was a great disappointment to Queen Mary?

 

[Prinsara]

Would you say that Edward wanting to step down was a great disappointment to Queen Mary?

If you are at all familiar with Queen Mary, you know her name is shorthand for "doing one's duty".

She was horrified, baffled, and yes, tremendously disappointed. She could not comprehend how on Earth her son, and more importantly the nation's king, had gone so wrong.

Despite their somewhat difficult relationship even pre-Abdication, she did still love David. There's something in her diary to the effect of "David is here, I have not seen him for eleven years". And while she never met Wallis, she did receive a placatory letter from her during the war with news of David, and wrote back to him saying approx "I send my regards to your wife."

No, she never got over or understood the Abdication or forgave the Duke for doing that, yes, disappointed is probably an understatement – but she did care quite a bit about her son and hoped he was well.

 

[sndral]

Not realy. His ideas of modernising the monarchy were mostly concerned with saving money (getting rid of staff) and reducing ceremony.. His "political" remarks were not of any significance, since he was already on his way out of the monarchy when he made them. After his abdication he showed little interest In doing anyting to help others or improve the world.

I do remember that in one of the biographies I read (which I can’t access at the moment since most of my books are at my other house than the one I’m hunkered down in) in the less than a year he was King he was downsizing the staff at either Balmoral or Sandringham to ‘save money.’
He was very focused on money, he reportedly was upset that unlike his brothers he did not receive a bequest when his father died and he lied about how much he had saved to George VI when he abdicated.

 

[Denville]

I do remember that in one of the biographies I read (which I can’t access at the moment since most of my books are at my other house than the one I’m hunkered down in) in the less than a year he was King he was downsizing the staff at either Balmoral or Sandringham to ‘save money.’
He was very focused on money, he reportedly was upset that unlike his brothers he did not receive a bequest when his father died and he lied about how much he had saved to George VI when he abdicated.

yes, that's true. He talked abuot modernising, but a lot of it was about cutting staff in order to save money. He got rid of staff, he saved up a lot of money and then pleaded poverty to George VI.

 

[Prinsara]

yes, that's true. He talked abuot modernising, but a lot of it was about cutting staff in order to save money. He got rid of staff, he saved up a lot of money and then pleaded poverty to George VI.

The question about the money focus is was it shared, triggered, or just encouraged by Wallis, since she had very strong feelings about money?

Was he so obsessed with it prior to becoming obsessed with her?

 

[Denville]

The question about the money focus is was it shared, triggered, or just encouraged by Wallis, since she had very strong feelings about money?

Was he so obsessed with it prior to becoming obsessed with her?

Im not sure. I haven't read a biography in a long time. But possibly, he didn't think much about money when younger because he had always had it...had never had to earn it... But when he thought of leaving the throne, he wanted to ensure that he had his own money to finance his new life and to give Wallis the sort of luxury she wanted/expected. I would imagine he suddenly became scared that he might not have enough and became a bit unscrupulous about the money issue.

 

[Prinsara]

Has anyone ever seen "Edward & Mrs. Simpson"? I'm almost tempted to start a thread for it.

It was very, VERY well done, with a tastefulness and restraint (and lack of romanticizing) I don't think you would ever get these days.

Unfortunately it's absolutely not available online.

 

[Durham]

Has anyone ever seen "Edward & Mrs. Simpson"? I'm almost tempted to start a thread for it.

It was very, VERY well done, with a tastefulness and restraint (and lack of romanticizing) I don't think you would ever get these days.

Unfortunately it's absolutely not available online.

There's bits on youtube. There's also a very interesting interview with Diana Mosley on youtube where she talks about about a biography she wrote of the duchess.