Crown Prince Frederik - A Candidate for the IOC?

[UserDane]

As I pointed out with the Norwegian royals attending (and as the Danish PM seems to agree with me on, in an article) - as long as the official Denmark sends athletes, the channels of diplomacy and trade remain open - Frederik would step outside his role as an apolitical figurehead, if he alone were to boycott it. Any diplomatic activity/negotiations with China from the official Denmark happens through the elected channels as it is today. If the Danish delegation were to withdraw, I'd agree that Frederik should do so as well, but as it is he's there primarily because of the Danish athletes.

I couldn't agree more Norwegianne
I find the ongoing discussion in DK about royal attendence or not very weird - why send sports delegations to the games and then require the royals to take a differenct political stand - doesn't make sense IMO.

 

[Lilla]

I couldn't agree more Norwegianne
I find the ongoing discussion in DK about royal attendence or not very weird - why send sports delegations to the games and then require the royals to take a differenct political stand - doesn't make sense IMO.

I agree. If you say yes to the one you must say yes to the other as well. The problem isn't the royal attendance - Denmark should have decided not to send any sport delegation at all. Doing this is a complet contradiction to our fundamental views regarding human rights and freedom of speach.

 

[Empress]

and yet again, The Olympics were created in order to keep a friendly non political channel open between all nations. It would be terrible for any country not to send a delegation.

Think of it this way, by the Olympics occuring in China, they have all that more attention thrown on the human rights violations than would have ever been the case. And, additionally, the Games offer the chance for people to come together and show that you do not need to violate human rights to have an orderly society.

The games should not be boycotted, because then the games themselves becoem an instrument of politics, and that would completely debase them.

 

[GlitteringTiaras]

Hm, well typically I'm alone here on this forum when it comes to my feelings about this situation and public figures attending these OG. I refuse to turn a blind eye; now I know how Prince Charles must be feeling.

Clearly the DA is playing the "game"/let's not upset anyone so we'll play the diplomatic card. Furthermore, the Olympics are filled with politics. Doesn't anyone find it strange that the Olympics promote the idea of "Peace and Harmony..." all warm fuzzy feelings towards each other...and this time it will take place... in China!?

Ohhhh the irony...

 

[marmi]

Hm, well typically I'm alone here on this forum when it comes to my feelings about this situation and public figures attending these OG. I refuse to turn a blind eye; now I know how Prince Charles must be feeling.

Clearly the DA is playing the "game"/let's not upset anyone so we'll play the diplomatic card. Furthermore, the Olympics are filled with politics. Doesn't anyone find it strange that the Olympics promote the idea of "Peace and Harmony..." all warm fuzzy feelings towards each other...and this time it will take place... in China!?

Ohhhh the irony...

Yes, I definutely see the irony - and am greatful that the issue has been given attention - it needed to IMO. But why "punish" the atheletes?

 

[UserDane]

The thing we should really object to I think is that China was awarded the games in the first place.

 

[Drottning]

The thing we should really object to I think is that China was awarded the games in the first place.

Hear, hear.

 

[Jo of Palatine]

and yet again, The Olympics were created in order to keep a friendly non political channel open between all nations. It would be terrible for any country not to send a delegation.

Think of it this way, by the Olympics occuring in China, they have all that more attention thrown on the human rights violations than would have ever been the case. And, additionally, the Games offer the chance for people to come together and show that you do not need to violate human rights to have an orderly society.

The games should not be boycotted, because then the games themselves becoem an instrument of politics, and that would completely debase them.

Hm, the Nazis used the 1936 games to show the world an ideolized picture of the "new" Germany, including removing all signs of the violation of Human rights of the jews and that worked so well that the other European nations continued with their appeasement politics, giving Hitler the time to prepare for WWII. So I am against the Olympic Games in China, because they do the same.

 

[T4phage]

Frederik gave an interview to Danmarks Idræt-Forbund.

OL i Beijing 2008 - Kronprins Frederik

Anyone able to summarize what he's saying?

 

[UserDane]

Frederik gave an interview to Danmarks Idræt-Forbund.

OL i Beijing 2008 - Kronprins Frederik

Anyone able to summarize what he's saying?

He states his delight in being approached by the Danish sports organisation and encouraged to seek an IOC membership - being an active sportsman himself and very interested in sports generally. As to the political aspects and any inconsistencies with the traditional Danish stance of the apolitical royals, he says that he will be engaged in matters relating to sports and leaving politics to others.
Asked about IOC's somewhat tainted reputation he says that this is changing and that IOC today is very different from what it was in the '90s.

He is asked which games made an impression in him and he mentions **surprise surprise *** the games in Sydney in 2000 because of the very strong enthusiasm about the games which the Australian displayed everywhere.

Finally, he is asked which sports he is looking forward to watch in the upcoming games and he mentions the Danish male handball team (the new European champions) and that he knows that most of Denmark will be following them too. He also mentions all the sailing sports, rowing and wrestling.

He speaks differently I think; more slowly - very deliberately. It seems to me he is really making an effort not to speak too fast, too enthusiastically, so he avoids running into the unfinished sentences he is prone to

 

[GlitteringTiaras]

Interesting article. Thank you, Userdane, for giving us a summary of the article. We appreciate it very much.

It would be interesting to see what happens in the future. My guess is that he will become a member in the future, and a good one... I hope.

Asked about IOC's somewhat tainted reputation he says that this is changing and that IOC today is very different from what it was in the '90s.

Hmm, I'm not so sure I can agree with him. The IOC has been corrupt for a long time, way before the 90's, and I highly doubt the organization did a 360* in eight years.

 

[Tricota]

He speaks differently I think; more slowly - very deliberately. It seems to me he is really making an effort not to speak too fast, too enthusiastically, so he avoids running into the unfinished sentences he is prone to

He does speak quite differently, I would say almost rehearsed, which might indicate that he is finally getting some media training. And lets be honest, he really needs it. He often mumbles along, fighting for the words to come out and digging himself deeper and deeper into a hole. We have all seen it, turned our head and though Oh my god...There is no reason to deny that. His mother warent much better in her early years, so maybe it comes with age (although she still makes some tarrible blunders at time)

Frederik's main problem is that he simply is so paralised by speaking that he doesnt realice what he is saying. Remember the speach he gave at the Copenhagen Cityhall just before the wedding? He had 3 cards and started with the 2nd insted of the first (or was in the 3rd when he should have read the 2nd) and didnt seam to realise it untill the end.

I would be glad if he is getting some media training, since he clearly needs it. And his helpers arent doing him any fawors but not pointing it out, or by plauing it down to him. I mean, someday soon he is going to be King, and then he really needs to do a lot better....

 

[T4phage]

It does look like he's trying to do better, but he still mumbles from time to time, and says the occasional "erm" or "um"....I think he has serious problems speaking, and he needs to get them taken care of, before he becomes King...otherwise...he's going to have HUGE problems...

 

[Empress]

Hm, the Nazis used the 1936 games to show the world an ideolized picture of the "new" Germany, including removing all signs of the violation of Human rights of the jews and that worked so well that the other European nations continued with their appeasement politics, giving Hitler the time to prepare for WWII. So I am against the Olympic Games in China, because they do the same.

I see what you are saying, but hopefully we've learned something in the time that has passed.

There is also the media machine that broadcasts everything, which is something that did not happen then. I did not say that I agree with the Games being held in China, far from it. But since they are being held there, I would hope that something good might come of it. And I agree with "why punish the athletes sentiment." They are there in the spirit of the Games.

None the less, I nearly fell off of my chair when I heard China would host the Games. Still, let's just hope the ridiculous media machine that we deal with nowadays turns their considerable resources and dubious talent towards uncovering the mess there.

 

[GlitteringTiaras]

None the less, I nearly fell off of my chair when I heard China would host the Games. Still, let's just hope the ridiculous media machine that we deal with nowadays turns their considerable resources and dubious talent towards uncovering the mess there.

I concur. Unfortunately, journalists have better reporting access in North Korea than in China.

Back to the IOC discussion, it seems the debate regarding Frederik, the IOC, and his outlook when it comes to being neutral in IOC politics has led some to wonder if he should really be involved. Essentially, it's heating up.

The bottom line: The IOC is filled with politics. If he honestly believes he can seperate the two makes me not only look at him with one raised eyebrow, but also his advisors.

Here are some interesting articles. One is from Berlingske Tidende, [URL="http://www.berlingske.dk/article/20080211/sport/702110035/"]here[/URL]. The other is from the colorful, and always entertaining paper, BT, [URL="http://www.bt.dk/article/20080212/sport08/80212016/"]here[/URL].


These next two stories are interesting. The basically state that sports and politics are one. Click [URL="http://www.berlingske.dk/article/20080212/sport/802120371/"]here [/URL]and [URL="http://www.berlingske.dk/article/20080211/sport/702110040/"]here[/URL].

Critics are really giving it to Frederik who call him "naive" and yes, that is what they say. This is very interesting and includes comments from regular Danes who voice their opinion. [URL="http://blog.politiken.dk/mogensen/2008/02/11/kronprinsens-vej-ud-af-ioc-problemet-bliv-konge/"]Click here[/URL] and [URL="http://blog.tv2.dk/morten.ankerdal/entry198816.html"]here [/URL]from TV2.dk

Dr.dk has a clip of Fredrik speaking, click [URL="http://www.dr.dk/odp/player.aspx?guid=DR1200802081830&surl=http%3A//geo.dr.dk/findLocation/%3Fid%3D287601%26ListType%3Dnyheder%26location%3DNone%26uri%3Dhttp%3A//www.dr.dk/extention/playWindowsMediaODP.aframe&mt=newstab&st=news_TVAvisen&furl=default.aspx%3Ftemplate%3Dnyhed%26guid%3DDR1200802081830%26autoplay%3D1%26back%3Ddefault.aspx%253ftemplate%253dnyheder%2526day%253d0&template=se_seneste&guid=tvavisen"]here.[/URL] His segment comes on a bit later, but in the meantime watch the Danish news.

 

[ysbel]

China may be expecting to pull the wool over people's eyes by hosting the Olympics but really after a few years, the only thing people remember about them is the sports.

Even after all the propaganda that Hitler used, what people most remember the Berlin games for was when Jesse Owens won the gold medal.

I know some athletes that never got a chance at the gold medal because Jimmy Carter pulled the US out of the Moscow Olympics; that's a whole lifetime of training down the drain.

 

[T4phage]

Anyone know Mary's take on Fred's candidacy for the IOC? Is she supporting him? Or gently hinting for him to back down?

An even better question is, if Mary told Frederik to back down, would he? I mean she is his wife. Or would he go against her wishes?

Fred seems like the submissive kind to me.

 

[Lilla]

Anyone know Mary's take on Fred's candidacy for the IOC? Is she supporting him? Or gently hinting for him to back down?

An even better question is, if Mary told Frederik to back down, would he? I mean she is his wife. Or would he go against her wishes?

Fred seems like the submissive kind to me.

If he were the submissive kind, he would have backed down by now - considering the pressure layed on him by several danish politicians and some newspapers.

 

[T4phage]

I meant in the marriage. A man can be submissive in a marriage, but be extremely headstrong around others.

To me, Frederik seems like the submissive type in his marriage.

 

[Marengo]

I think there is no way we can know who is submissive, if anybody is submissive at all and Mary certainly isn't going to tell the press (or many others) how she feels about the IOC business. The most logical thing to assume is that she supports her husband, as most spouses do.

 

[GlitteringTiaras]

I imagine that Mary is his greatest support during this odd and tense time for him regarding the IOC candidacy.

Honestly, I feel bad for him. He wants to participate in a something he's interested in, and as an avid sportsman, perhaps he feels that he can contribute something postive. Unfortunately, it seems that his advisors are, well let's be frank, not advising him all that well.

Who knows what the outcome will be in the end.

 

[Lilla]

I imagine that Mary is his greatest support during this odd and tense time for him regarding the IOC candidacy.

Honestly, I feel bad for him. He wants to participate in a something he's interested in, and as an avid sportsman, perhaps he feels that he can contribute something postive. Unfortunately, it seems that his advisors are, well let's be frank, not advising him all that well.

Who knows what the outcome will be in the end.

His advisors are the Danish Ministry of State - and yes I agree - it does seem the Minestry doesn't advise him all that well.

 

[Marengo]

Well, is it known what advice the ministery gave? And some self reflection would come in handy too I suppose. Frederik probably knew he has difficulties in speeching, press conferences and such, so to apply for such a position wasn't the best thing to do.

 

[Lilla]

Well, is it known what advice the ministery gave? And some self reflection would come in handy too I suppose. Frederik probably knew he has difficulties in speeching, press conferences and such, so to apply for such a position wasn't the best thing to do.

The advise the ministery gave was that he should go for it! The dream - for lots of politicians and the present government in particular - is that Denmark could one day be the host of the OL.

The discussion and what might become a huge problem in Denmark - isn't how articulate the CP is or is not - but the fact that you can't separate sports from politics. If Frederik becomes a member of the IOC, he will have to deal with political issues and this is out of touch with the traditions of the danish constitutional monarcy. Royals in Denmark do not mingle with politics - not even on the level Prince Charles does when it comes to enviromental issues.

There is no doubt that Frederik wants to become a member of the IOC - but unfurturnatly this might end up in a discusion about the role of the danish monarcy in a modern state. In my oppinion the advise of the minestry is very short-termed and it might be the advise - that will end a one thousand year old monarcy.

 

[GlitteringTiaras]

Lilla is right. The Ministry gave Frederik their support, as they should because, I think, the key point they are trying to make: support the Danish athletes first, worry about international politics and the aftermath later.

Moving to something a tad different, but should be addressed: It seems that there are some, not on TRF, who are seriously confused regarding IOC politics, Frederik, and the Games in China. Let me say that although the three are essetially tied together there are two seperate issues at hand.

First, Frederik will attend the Games later this summer. He will be there to support the Danish athletes. Unfortunately some, perhaps not on this board nor singling him out in particular, will view his actions as being "political." How? The answer is obvious. By going it demostrates to some that he isn't too bothered by what is happening in China and to the people of Tibet. If he doesn't go, he's making a political statement that would be viewed (similar) to Prince Charles, and it would look like he was turning his back on the Danish athletes. The poor guy is in a Catch 22 situation.

Second, his wish to be apart of the IOC, and how he will apparently try to avoid it's infamous internal and external (to a point) political handlings.

Here are two interesting articles that may be a beginning stepping stone to understand this odd situation: [URL="http://www.iht.com/articles/2001/07/14/t16_18.php"]Here (this is an old article, but still a valuable read)[/URL]
Here and [URL="http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2008/feb/15/olympicgames2008.foreignpolicy"]here[/URL].

One of the most famous photos when it comes to the OLG and politics can be seen [URL="http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k69/KateGT/CRsmithT3.jpg"]here[/URL]. Who can ever forget that day and/or photo. No words are needed to describe what's going on.

 

[Marengo]

We had that debate in The Netherlands too, when the Prince of Orange became a member of the IOC. If I remember correctly it focussed on 3 points:

1) IOC is (was?) corrupt, should the crownprince be involved with such a associatin?
2) It might be politically sensitive (China etc)
3) Nepotism, aren;t there former sporters who are more capable or deserve it more to be in this position.

In the end an agreement was worked out that the Prince would cease to be a member as soon as he would become King and that he could actually be an asset to change the IOC and make it less corrupt etc.

Now, 10 years later, everybody recognises that the Prince did a good job, the IOC has changed and no problems came from it. So maybe in Frederik's case the opposition will stop as soon as he shows that he functions well as a member of the IOC and that he makes an effort in the anti-corruption, human rights etc. things.

 

[Lilla]

One of the most famous photos when it comes to the OLG and politics can be seen [URL="http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k69/KateGT/CRsmithT3.jpg"]here[/URL]. Who can ever forget that day and/or photo. No words are needed to describe what's going on.

I love that photo. It is the essence of how sport can be manifested into a political statement.

 

[Lilla]

Now, 10 years later, everybody recognises that the Prince did a good job, the IOC has changed and no problems came from it. So maybe in Frederik's case the opposition will stop as soon as he shows that he functions well as a member of the IOC and that he makes an effort in the anti-corruption, human rights etc. things.

I will very much hope, that this will happen in Denmark as well, and I have no doubt that Frederik - given the space - will be an assed to the IOC and in this new role (if he becomes a member) will be able to contribute to his own country in a new and valuable way - just like the Prince of Orange.

 

[GlitteringTiaras]

I love that photo. It is the essence of how sport can be manifested into a political statement.

I do too. It's pretty amazing. To connect the image with Frederik's possibility as an IOC member this is something similar that he may have to deal with in the future. IOC members at the time (and after) dealt with it both secretly and non.

If Frederik could follow in WA footsteps there may be a chance. Of course, I would hope that he would carve his own path unique unto himself, but keeping in mind the strategy that WA used.

 

[Tricota]

Bottem line is, they guy need a job. It could be 5-10 years easily before the queen retires, and he cant spend that time in limbo, trying to pass the time sailing and doing a few arrengements. He needs something that can tie him up and utelize a larger portion of his time.

And for that, the IOC is perfect. Most of the work takes place outside Denmark and so he wont have thye whole country looking over his shulder, as I am sure it feels like he has now. It will be good for him to get out and not always have to deal with the people, as arogant as that may sound to some.

As for the politics and the fact that the media wants to speak to him...Well, do they really? How many times have the current IOC member been in the press even in the last few years (when we have won an IOC congress and started talking about hosting the olympics)? Not a lot. And he really hasnt been sayiong anything that couldnt have been said by anyone else. And who says the royal family cant be political? He cant vote of couse of be involved in day to day danish politics, but that is not what ioc is about. Its the big lines and he could have an opinion there, just like his mother does in the new years speeaches. If he just learned to be a little smoother and a bit more diplomatic, then he would be great...And if only the media would realice what a great chance this is, insted of focusing on the fact that they will no longer have a hotline to the Danish IOC menber....

Its either this, or sailing for the next 10 years. He is not like the Prince of Wales, he doesnt have a giant farm he can retire to and spend his time on that...