Charlotte Casiraghi's equestrian career


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trepstrep said:
And that's exactly what I meant about the absurd way she is leading her career.
This weekend there's been nearly 20 CSO in France, some of them at the doors of Paris.
Yet, instead of taking part in a national show with riders of her level, she travels to Antwerp to take part in a 1'15 m. competition! That's a low amateur level.
Of course, when you have a look at the startlist you see that nearly every body else taking part in the 1'15 competion is dutch. And that's normal. They are local amateur riders who take part in the event because it's happening close to their homes. A rider in his right mind doesn't travel hundreds of km. to take part in a poor 1.15m competition when he can do it every weekend at home.

And even more absurd, Charlotte places 22 out of 36 riders in such a low level competition. You travel to Atwerp to do that?
Why does she get such poor results with the kind of horses she rides? I know plenty of amateur riders on a budget, who ride cheap 9.000 euros horses and do better than her.
I don't know if Rozier is giving her bad advice, or whether she is very stubborn and thinks that because her mother is so and so she is too good to enter regional and national competions, but she looks kind of silly doing this kind of things.

Edit: because I just realized that she took part in another competion. A 1'25 m. with Troy. Still, amateur level. Nearly everyone else is dutch. And she placed last. 52nd out of 52 riders. Actually she was eliminated. And with such a horse! I don't know if she's ridicouloulsy naif and that Rozier is ripping her off, or if she's so vain and pretentious that she doesn't listen to any advice. But her "career" is starting to look ridicoulous.
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You bring many good points! She passed over the chance to participate in the Barbizon jumping, Granted it was on Rose Ball weekend, but there is an example of a perfectly good Paris-area event. What kind of * is the Antwerpen? 1 or 2*? Could her choice of event have to do with ........ maybe she keeps her horses at Stal Tops unlike where we thought, espace Rozier? hmm

Athina is doing something like this. For some reason, Athina has decided that the small-potatoes events of Italy are her practice ground. She uses the 3* events in Italy to gain experience with her horses and exercise her skills. I guess you could say why does she go to Italy to do this? She could do it in belgium or brazil. But then, I guess it's a little bit different, because unlike Charlotte, she is going for the high stakes. Athina's been jumping from 1m35-60. Just this year she started doing 1m50 and higher for the first time in her life.

I noticed you said Charlotte doesn't earn any euros. It's not entirely true. She has earned a few hundred last year. Maybe 300 euros max for 2009. So after buying her million euro Troy and Tintero, and paying who knows what for everything else, she made a few hundred euros. :D Charlotte had a good result every now in then when the moon is blue. :ROFLMAO: She's inconsistent, but it does happen..... maybe sometimes she rubs against some good luck.

I wonder about Thierry Rozier too. What is his game? Is he just very fond of Charlotte, or of her family, so he does it for...... his affection for them? or the money? or the prestige of the association? His brother seemed to give up on wasting time as a Grimaldi trainer long ago, and Philippe focuses on his own career and does very well at the highest level. I'm sure Thierry could do that too, but maybe he doesn't want to. He'd rather teach? Can you enlighten us further, trep? I enjoy your posts on this topic. Keep teaching us, please.

cdm, thanks for the pictures and the news. I wasn't expecting Char at that event. :lol: Like trep said, Antwerp????:ROFLMAO:
 
I would like to point out that when you train with a top of the line trainer like Rozier, as the STUDENT, you dont get to decide what competitions the barn is travelling to. If the trainer says 'Aachen' or 'Spruce Meadows' or 'Palm Beach' then that is where you are going. At our facility the competition schedule is set a year in advance. My trainer has 2 Olympic medals and a world championship. I go where I'm told and compete in the division I am instructed to, because she has a reason for it long term. www.burrassociates.com for anyone who would like to compare. Lelie Burr Howard and Molly Ashe Cawley
 
^yes

English, and French, and Italian, and probably others

mostly French though, and in any case, that interview for a french tv channel
 
So many things to say!

First, kells, you should learn to ride!

Second, I totally agree with Horseygal. In the old pictures you can see how relaxed and focused Troy is, and he is not even wearing a noseband. It's a horse that's finished with 0 points 1'45m parcours. Yet, with Charlotte he looks estressed and unhappy and she needs I don't know how many devices who's names in english I don't know to control him.
If you go to this link and click on the second picture in the gallery, you can see how anguished the horse looks:
Antwerpen - Dochter van Caroline van Monaco op jumping Antwerpen - Gva.be

Third, casiraghitrio, Antwerp was a CSI****! I don't know what Thierry's game is but I started losing trust on him when I read? heard? (I can't remember) an interview where he said that Charlotte was a such a good rider, was so incredibly talented, and was going to get such good results with her horses, and blah, blah, blah, when everyone can see that's not true. I mean, he's her teacher he's not going to say: "she's bad, she's got bad hands, she has no balance", publicly, but he was so obviously lying and exagerating that it sounded as if he was just sucking up. And the horses he's making her buy when she's not ready for them... There is something that makes no sense at all there.

About Athina, I think that she is different from Charlotte in many levels. First, Italy wasn't probably her choice, but Dado's who is the top level rider and as a professional he must have good reasons to start the season there. Second, her following the Global Tour is totally logical since her husband is one of the main riders there. If she can take part in smaller competitions while he rides Grand Prix and be together, that's kind of a powerful reason. Third, as you pointed out, she is better than Charlotte. My journalist friend told me some things about her. He treated her very little and left under the impression that she was spoiled and very demanding, but as a rider, he said, Athina is not bad. She's this kind of correct rider who knows her limitations, and stays in her place and takes good care not to disturb the horse. As she can afford the best horses in the world, even if she won't be number one or among the really top riders, she can perfectly well ride high level with more than dignity.

Scooter, I agree with you about a student not being the one to decide where the barn goes, but I really don't think this is the case. Thierry Rozier is based near Paris and even if he only wants to go to CSI level competions they are plenty of CSI** taking place around that area during the jumping season that his barn goes to. The Roziers take part in many competitions in Barbizon, Bois le Roi, Fontainebleau, or if you want to travel 50 km or so, Chantilly or Rambouillet. Yet, Charlotte mainly takes part in the more fashionable and up of the scale shows. So it really looks as if it is her personal choice. Last year, once the tour started she only took part in the Global Tour shows, while during those months the Rozier barn was taking part in many national competitions she didn't enter.
Also, if you have a look at the post-competion parties, you can see that Rozier is usually accompanied only by Charlotte and another girl. So, it is not as if it a big barn travelling together. It's just Thierry and his two girls, and none of them is a top rider.
 
trepstrep said:
OMG!
You shouldn't be allowed to ride a CSI when you ride like this:
IMG_0154 on Flickr - Photo Sharing!
IMG_0157 on Flickr - Photo Sharing!
IMG_0163 on Flickr - Photo Sharing!
IMG_0165 on Flickr - Photo Sharing!

And, an amateur rider who doesn't attend to her horse even for five minutes after showjumping and leaves it still saddled in the hands of her groom ? Who does she think she is? Liking it less and less.
IMG_0189 on Flickr - Photo Sharing!

This is poor Troy "before" Charlotte, ridden by someone who doesn't hang on his mounth and stays still while jumping. He looked happy and confident. 1st place in a 1.40 m CSI***

Forgive my ignorance but I know absolutely nothing about horses - I am referring to the gallery of the first 4 photos - to ask why was the horse that Charlotte was riding frothing at the mouth before I presume and after, she dismounted - the poor horse to me looked to be distressed
:ohmy::sad:
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debrann said:
Forgive my ignorance but I know absolutely nothing about horses - I am referring to the gallery of the first 4 photos - to ask why was the horse that Charlotte was riding frothing at the mouth before I presume and after, she dismounted - the poor horse to me looked to be distressed
:ohmy::sad:
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Hi, debrann, the horse IS distressed!
Frothing, per se, is not a bad thing. In fact, often, when the horse is relaxed froth is a good sign. To make it very simple, it means that he feels at ease with the iron in his mouth.
In some cases, though, an excess of froth can be caused by an excess of excitement and nervousness, and this seems to be the case. If you have a look at the old pictures of Troy, you will see that, although he is jumping in a higher level, he looks relaxed, focused.
With Charlotte he looks anxious, there is tension in his mouth and his eyes look distressed, even while already in the air. It looks as if he doesn't understand what Charlotte is asking of him.
Horses are very sensitive and a misunderstandign with a rider can make them nervous. Charlotte was eliminated and that means the her horse refused twice to jump. When a horse of that level refuses to take a 1'20 jump, it usually reflects trust issues. The horse doesn't trust Charlotte's guide or more probably he doesn't trust her hand and thinks he's gonna be hurt in the mouth if he jumps.
 
I know Leon Thijssen. And come on, the level difference between them is HUGE.

And mind you when I say that nearly every jumping rider has a bad posture? And I mean every. And I have seen horses been ridden worse. A whole lot worse. And those riders ride nationally and internationally.

Don't overexegarate.
 
I don't over exagerate.
The difference between them is huge, of course. But the girl wasn't even able to finish a 1.25 competition with a horse who's proficient at 1'45. Such a horse should fly over 1'20m fences. And she travelled hundreds of km to take part in a low level amateur competition.

I don't agree at all when you say that all jump riders have bad posture (I guess by your words that you are a dressage girl? If it is so, we will never agree ;)), but in any case I never talked about posture. I talked about hard hands and lack of balance.

And yes, I've seen worst as well, much worst. But not in a rider who follows the Global Tour around the world.
When you have Charlotte's riding level you go to competitions near home, and once in a while you jump a CSI to test yourself. And you buy experienced calm horses who can teach you. You don't buy amazing horses that have been ridden by top riders and you can't manage properly.
 
Let's not forget that most horses who are 'careful' (ie dont like to rub the jumps/knock them down) have a bit of a stop in them if they think they might hit the jump. We have one in the barn who is the absolute winner, but you better be right on the distance. If you are 1mm off she will plant you in the dirt.
 
You're right scooter. But that kind of horse is a horse for a really good riders, who can see the right distance.
If Troy is one of them he's not the right horse for Charlotte and her trainer should have known better when they bought him.
 
I'm indeed a dressage girl. And I cringe when I see jumping riders do dressage.
She can buy amazing horses and even ride them properly if she wants to. And that is the problem. If you really want to start competing seriously, it needs her attention 24/7. Simple as that.
 
It's possible the trainer bought her more scope than she needed, thinking that he would show the horse for a while until she grew into it. Also, a very scopey jumper could get her out of trouble when she makes a mistake. But I agree that she needs more of a school master who has done it all and will show her how to get around a big course. This one does not seem to be a match. Sometimes even the nicest jumper isn't the right one if it doesnt have the right temperament.
 
GI Joe and Troy are both very powerful and perhaps too much for Charlotte to handle. Maybe Tintero is a better fit, but she doesn't seem to do much better with Tintero. Tintero is young, but has potential to do very well. I think Empress hit it: Charlotte just doesn't practice enough. If she worked with her horses more, spent more time with them, we might see much better results.

You guys are all so right, about horses and sensitivity. It's amazing what they pick up, isn't it? The smallest bit of fear in a person makes a horse so anxious.
my mom works for a horse rescue and I have been to see the horses and I am constantly too nervous to go too close, because I haven't really learned how to 'please' the horses, and I won't risk doing something to make the horses uncomfortable. It makes me sad because I can see they are so hungry for the human contact, but I am scared to do something they don't like. :ermm:
 
trepstrep said:
Hi, debrann, the horse IS distressed!
Frothing, per se, is not a bad thing. In fact, often, when the horse is relaxed froth is a good sign. To make it very simple, it means that he feels at ease with the iron in his mouth.
In some cases, though, an excess of froth can be caused by an excess of excitement and nervousness, and this seems to be the case. If you have a look at the old pictures of Troy, you will see that, although he is jumping in a higher level, he looks relaxed, focused.
With Charlotte he looks anxious, there is tension in his mouth and his eyes look distressed, even while already in the air. It looks as if he doesn't understand what Charlotte is asking of him.
Horses are very sensitive and a misunderstandign with a rider can make them nervous. Charlotte was eliminated and that means the her horse refused twice to jump. When a horse of that level refuses to take a 1'20 jump, it usually reflects trust issues. The horse doesn't trust Charlotte's guide or more probably he doesn't trust her hand and thinks he's gonna be hurt in the mouth if he jumps.
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Thanx Trepstrep for the explanation, I think horses are beautiful animals, but it pains me to see any any animal under stress - surely Charlotte with all her years of riding should have sensed her mount was not happy:sad: I appreciate your comments:flowers:
 
:previous: Yes. Dressage, three day eventing and show jumping in both team and individual categories comprise the Olympic equestrian sports.
About Charlotte's equestrian abilities, I have to say I'm a little shocked to see some the results she's been posting lately. One would suppose, after so many years in the sport that she would at least a proficient rider, particularly with the caliber of the horses she's riding. But I agree with trepstrep that Charlotte and Troy are mismatched. I think every rider has had at least one horse that was either too fresh or too experienced (mine was my first - which is a blessing in that I got over it early but it doesn't do much for your confidence as a rider). There also seems to be a lack of a bond between rider and horse - if Charlotte is just taking him out to train and compete and them leaving him to the groom when she's done, then of course Troy isn't going to understand Charlotte or what she's asking of him. In my opinion, the more time you spend with your horse, the more it will understand you and the cooperate with you because you have a real connection. Just like if you look at Zara Phillips and Mark Todd (they're my favourites :D) they have a real connection with their horses. Knowing how to jump is only going to get you so far, when it comes down to it, it is a sport like any other and it takes time and dedication, not to mention a real passion for the sport.
 
I've noticed a very good connection between Athina and AD Ricardo 500. I haven't seen anything like this between Charlotte and any horse. I guess she was good enough with GI Joe, but I wouldn't say that was any great connection. I used to think it's good for her to do this if she enjoys it, but I'm starting to think she doesn't enjoy it that much. She just doesn't have that much to do with her time and, to her credit, she wants to do something. But she half-a--'s it. What's the point if you're going to compete once every three months, except when you're being the Global Champion Groupie :lol: (love it, trep) and so you do it once a month for half the year? And you make all these horses try to figure you out, becoming nervous wrecks because they don't know WTH to do to please you? I'm sorry, but I'm losing respect for her. She is a joke in this sport. You can see that she acts like she is all that too. She totally has attitude. She is beautiful and rich, but where is her character?
If she would show some character, some honesty, integrity, I could cut her slack. If she would just act like she knows she is just a hobby rider, if she could be humble and not act like a Champion rider.... She's a poser and that's what I find hard to get over.
 
How does one decide if she has attitude or not? Charlotte has the money, so she competes in the GC instead of just going to the small competitions in the region of Paris. She isn't the first to do so, and won't be the last.
 
Yeah...um, how do you tell by those pics (or any others of her competing) that she has attitude?:ermm: All I can ascertain is that she was happy to be there (from the smiling pictures). I'm not sure anybody could accurately comment on her "attitude." For the longest time--judging from pics--I thought she was the snobby, dainty type. Then I saw that vid of her leaving Stella McCartney's show last year and that Monaco jumping video she came off as quite confident albeit a little shy. So unless you know her personally, I don't think it's fair to say "she's got an attitude."

However, I think you can infer quite a lot from someone's actions. I don't know why she's traveling such a distance to compete at levels and in competitions obviously above her capability, but it does look, at best foolish and misinformed, and at worst, overconfident and self-important. I won't make a judgment either way, because you never really know, but what I will say is that I hope she starts making better results and training harder. It makes absolutely no sense for her to have been jumping this long and still be this poor at it. I mean, I can understand if you don't have a talent for something. I don't think anyone expects her to be Athina or Doda, but 52 out of 52?!!:ohmy: I mean, it's a waste of time if she's just doing it just to be doing it.
 
No. It's not a waste of money if you are last of the whatever division that you are tryng to move up to. Show jumping isnt like pole vaulting that it's you against your personal best only. If you are trying to improve to the high divisions, you may absolutely be last at the very begining sometimes . Regardless of ones $ wallet or one's title, neither the horse, nor the course care what other advantages you have. And guess what? Sometimes disaster strikes, even if you are the Olympic Champion. We all come out on any given Sunday to try our hardest. And someone will win and someone will lose and the rest will be in between. Just my life experience on the subject:)
 
scooter said:
No. It's not a waste of money if you are last of the whatever division that you are tryng to move up to. Show jumping isnt like pole vaulting that it's you against your personal best only. If you are trying to improve to the high divisions, you may absolutely be last at the very begining sometimes . Regardless of ones $ wallet or one's title, neither the horse, nor the course care what other advantages you have. And guess what? Sometimes disaster strikes, even if you are the Olympic Champion. We all come out on any given Sunday to try our hardest. And someone will win and someone will lose and the rest will be in between. Just my life experience on the subject:)
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I would totally agree with you if this were an occasional happening, but her results are repeatedly low. Not just sometimes. Sometimes she receives good results, but usually they are low. Which seems to suggest she's not putting in as much as effort as she could---in which case, if this is true then it IS a waste of time and money. Let me put it like this---there are much better things she could be putting her money toward (like the numerous starving kids out there) than jumping if she's not going to give it her all. Moreover, this is not the "beginning" for Charlotte. She's been jumping ever since was like nine or ten. She's twenty-three going on twenty-four now. I know she took a hiatus, but with that many years under her belt, one would think she'd be doing at least a little better by now.
 
Gosh, I really can't believe the discussion going on whetever she should be travelling or even doing jumping if her results are low.

Let the girl be. It's her life, her money and her decision. She is an adult and perfectly capable of making her own choices. And if she chooses to travel half the world for jumping, that's her. Part of it could be to keep up with social contacts in her circle of horseback riding friends or just the fun of competing. Clearly she doesn't see it as a waste of time. Not everyone rides to win. Some just ride because it's fun. Some ride just to ride.
 
Empress Merel said:
Gosh, I really can't believe the discussion going on whetever she should be travelling or even doing jumping if her results are low.

Let the girl be. It's her life, her money and her decision. She is an adult and perfectly capable of making her own choices. And if she chooses to travel half the world for jumping, that's her. Part of it could be to keep up with social contacts in her circle of horseback riding friends or just the fun of competing. Clearly she doesn't see it as a waste of time. Not everyone rides to win. Some just ride because it's fun. Some ride just to ride.
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Totally agree - although, I also agree w/some of the technical arguments made by Trep Step and others. I have never ridden "professionally," but more for the love of the sport - but, now that I have kids and will be going to grad school some day, I don't have as much time to devote; but, doesn't stop me from riding here-and-there. Just because Charlotte isn't going for the Olympic team (like Zara Phillips) doesn't mean she can't enjoy the sport. Caroline rides but never turned professional, either. Once you ride, it's in your blood, so however you can stay active in the sport (even if it means a hack w/friends now-and-then), you look to stay in it. Maybe that's what Charlotte is doing - not intending to turn pro, but just keeping her skills up so she can stay active for many years to come.
 
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Ok, she can ride just because she likes it and not to be a professional. But, if that's the case, why does she travel so far just to compete? Why does she ride such strong and expensive horses, if they are too much for her? They could be with better riders who would use them (the horses) in higher competitions and perhaps make them shine, as they deserve.
 
Because she has the money. Let's face it, girls. If you had all the money and you could choose between an amazing horse with an incredible background of family or a nice horse, but not very special? I'd know it.
 
Empress Merel said:
Because she has the money. Let's face it, girls. If you had all the money and you could choose between an amazing horse with an incredible background of family or a nice horse, but not very special? I'd know it.
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DITTO! :lol: If I had the means and phenominal horses, trainers at my disposal, I'd still take full advantage whether I intended to go pro, or not.
 
Excuse me if I don't agree with every decision she makes because she's rich. :whistling: That's like buying a convertible because I can afford it---only to go 40 miles per hour on the highway.

If she was really "riding just to ride" why doesn't she also participate in smaller competitions and not just the more popular, media-highlighted ones? Like I said before, she could just be hoping to draw attention to the sport, but I suppose my main gripe is she seems so willfully (or naively) out of her league and doing nothing to make it better. But whatever. I'll always adore her equestrian style. Here's hoping the sleeveless white blouse look makes a reapperance this summer.
 
I think Charlotte is just accustomed to doing things at the top. It's like...... when her aunt Stephanie wanted to be a model, she went straight to the top of the game. There was no, Well, let's start at the bottom and work the way up. When you're in the GRimaldi family, you do it at the top, even it seems if you're not technically in the top league. It's not good, for them it's not good. Because there's nowhere to go when you start at the top. She never had to work very hard to attract sponsorship, because well, they came running to her. She can buy the coolest horse on the block, no problems; here's the money for it. Who cares if she doesn't get to know the horse because she had that fashion show yesterday, and then tonight,she has the film premiere, and then the art show.....

With school, it was totally different. She wasn't automatically at the top in school and she had to work, and she did for a long time, and she didn't (after all the hard work) make the grade for the school she wanted, so she quit that. She does stuff wherein she can be at the top, no questions asked.
 
I really don't see the problem you all are making. But hey, that's just me. We don't know her, stop acting like you do.
 
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