Charles and Diana

[Skippy]

I believe that - despite being ill-matched - Charles and Diana did love each other, but not in the way they needed from each other. Subsequently, a truckload of grief. The only good "things" that came out of it are William and Harry.

That's all I'm going to say about this subject.

 

[Sandy345]

Diana was also 12 years younger and not in the same "set" as Charles. She would not be familiar with the ethos and "nuances" that Charles and his friends were used to. I think she sincerely believed Charles thought she was the One because he wanted to marry her and she was besotted with him. I don't think she knew it all before the marriage, that Charles was still interested in Camilla and was not going to stop seeing her and they did indeed keep in touch. She thought Charles "amazing" according to what she said in the engagement interview and she said "of course" when asked if she was "in love." Diana already had associated with royals, going to birthday parties of Andrew and Edward. She wanted a husband and children and a happy marriage. I don't think she saw Charles as a "big fish." Diana was sought after as a good match because she came from a noted family, the Spencers, and had royal blood.

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

[...] Diana was sought after as a good match because she came from a noted family, the Spencers, and had royal blood.

Lady Diana certainly was not a nobody on the marriage market of the us-knows-us but she had no royal blood, to be fair. Or we must see anywone with a spot of royal blood as such.

Diana was her husband's 16th cousin once removed. All of it flowing from illegitimate unions. Four of her ancestors were maîtresses to English Kings. Three of these with King Charles II (1630-85), whom produced more than a quarter of the 26 dukedoms in Great-Britain and Ireland (this is where Diana's connection is, via Henry Fitzroy and Charles Lennox). The fourth maîtresse, Lady Arabella Churchill, was a favorite of King James II (1633-1701) and bore him a daughter.

 

[Claire]

It is sad - but we have the benefit of hindsight and distance. Fate and history often turn on a coin toss. If Charles had taken more time and deliberation in finding a wife he love and admired, if Diana wasn't so taken in the prospect of position. Their lives might have been completely different or we can never really know might have ended out relatively the same.

 

[Mirabel]

It is sad - but we have the benefit of hindsight and distance. Fate and history often turn on a coin toss. If Charles had taken more time and deliberation in finding a wife he love and admired, if Diana wasn't so taken in the prospect of position. Their lives might have been completely different or we can never really know might have ended out relatively the same.

Many say that Charles and Diana should simply have taken more time.
But, they forget what it was like back then.
The press was like a howling mob; they were hounded wherever they went.

Diana would get phone calls at all hours and was followed to work. Even the Queen couldn't get the press to back off, and said she couldn't put up with much more.

Charles thought (wrongly) that once they were married things would calm down, but that never happened.

 

[TLLK]

Lady Diana certainly was not a nobody on the marriage market of the us-knows-us but she had no royal blood, to be fair. Or we must see anywone with a spot of royal blood as such.

Diana was her husband's 16th cousin once removed. All of it flowing from illegitimate unions. Four of her ancestors were maîtresses to English Kings. Three of these with King Charles II (1630-85), whom produced more than a quarter of the 26 dukedoms in Great-Britain and Ireland (this is where Diana's connection is, via Henry Fitzroy and Charles Lennox). The fourth maîtresse, Lady Arabella Churchill, was a favorite of King James II (1633-1701) and bore him a daughter.

And with the somewhat recent availability of commercial DNA testing, I believe that many, many people in the UK and the rest of the world would have royal ancestry similar to the late Diana, Princess of Wales. The difference being that the Spencers had the means and the ability to keep written records of these liaisons over the largely illiterate population of the 17th century.

 

[Pranter]

Many say that Charles and Diana should simply have taken more time.
But, they forget what it was like back then.
The press was like a howling mob; they were hounded wherever they went.

Diana would get phone calls at all hours and was followed to work. Even the Queen couldn't get the press to back off, and said she couldn't put up with much more.

Charles thought (wrongly) that once they were married things would calm down, but that never happened.

I think this was the Queens thought too...after the marriage the media would settle down and things would go more smoothly.

So much pressure from the media at the time, Charles could barely speak to a woman and they started speculating. I think no matter who he married it would of been a frenzy. A shame he didn't just get on with things when he was dating Camilla.



LaRae

 

[Denville]

I think this was the Queens thought too...after the marriage the media would settle down and things would go more smoothly.

So much pressure from the media at the time, Charles could barely speak to a woman and they started speculating. I think no matter who he married it would of been a frenzy. A shame he didn't just get on with things when he was dating Camilla.



LaRae

There woudl have been interest in whoever he married and a lot of media attention.. but Diana was a special case. She had an x factor that aroused a lot of popular and press attention.. so her relationship with Charles did set them of to chase after her and make their courtship stressful...I think that the RF were pleased that the press loved her so much but assumed that in a year or so, she'd settle inot married life and the press attention would cool down, because she was a familiar figure.. but she didn't settle into married life and the Press continued to chase after her because she just was so popular that they knew they had a winner every time they had a picture or story about her..
[...]

 

[Heavs]

Many say that Charles and Diana should simply have taken more time.
But, they forget what it was like back then.
The press was like a howling mob; they were hounded wherever they went.

Diana would get phone calls at all hours and was followed to work. Even the Queen couldn't get the press to back off, and said she couldn't put up with much more.

Charles thought (wrongly) that once they were married things would calm down, but that never happened.

The press was still a howling mob at times. I remember the pictures of Kate being chased down the street by a literal mob of Paparazzi several times and on "significant" dates it was even worse. However times and society had changed a little so actual dating was easier. And also partly *because* if what had happened to Diana they put their foot down about rushing things and got the agreement of the press not to bother the boys at uni so they actually had time to get to know each other.

It also helped that they were in more remote Wales for a few years pre and post marriage.

 

[TLLK]

The press was still a howling mob at times. I remember the pictures of Kate being chased down the street by a literal mob of Paparazzi several times and on "significant" dates it was even worse. However times and society had changed a little so actual dating was easier. And also partly *because* if what had happened to Diana they put their foot down about rushing things and got the agreement of the press not to bother the boys at uni so they actually had time to get to know each other.

It also helped that they were in more remote Wales for a few years pre and post marriage.

Very true Heavs and IMO the past experiences that Diana faced during her courtship and early years of her marriage definitely impacted how her sons later conducted their own personal relationships with their previous girlfriends and later their wives.

 

[Denville]

No, I think they'd have married because they both had reasons for wanting to marry.. and they would have blinded themselves to any signs that they weren't that suitable... and one of the problems was that in so many ways, Diana was very suitable... She was charming and sweet, she was beautiful, warm towards kids and old people.. She charmed everyone..and if she hadn't had the neuroses, which were made so much worse by her difficult marriage and the ongoing press attention, she would have been an ideal Princess of Wales.

 

[REAL COUNTESS]

I just like to say, the POW was to old for her. Charles was set in his way. She was a 19 year old girl with big dreams. Her popularity didn't help either, because this put Charles some what in the shadow. I read somewhere Philip pushed Charles into this marriage, this was no help either. Every time Pss Diana made a sad face on cameras, it automatically was Charles fault. She had lot's of insecurities maybe even depressions I don't really know, no one does, but may I dare to say she was a bit unstable. The press was no help either, they liked to cause trouble and did. She loved her son's and had lots of compassion for others, This made her what she was the Peoples Princess. She had a terrible accident which took her life way to early, this is the 24th year of her death. I think it is time to let her rest in peace. I really believe she wants to be remembered as mother and Pss of Wales and want the people and her family go on with their lives and not hang around the passed.

 

[Sandy345]

Philip really did not "push" Charles into the marriage The letter Charles carried around from his father came into the public domain, its contents revealed. Charles was advised to drop her if he did not want to marry her. Which to me is wise advice. Charles admitted in 1994 that he did not love Diana. Charles also had no trouble breaking up with other serious contenders and at least two women turned him down. DIana to me was Not "unstable." She was in a very complex situation and she and her sister Sarah had a predisposition to eating disorders. I always thought it unfair that Diana was labeled that way. She did get the bulimia under control by seeking counseling. Charles was not perfect and had his own weaknesses. I don't recall Charles being blamed when Diana made sad faces. I did read that even after there were problems she and Charles kept up appearances of being happy. I don't think Diana will ever be airbrushed. And William said every day he thinks about is mother. ANd Harry said the same. She was a very iconic individual IMO.Charles could not marry anybody close to his age, since the ones close to his age were mostly already married or had had relationships. He even turned down the lovely Davina Sheffield because her ex spoke to the press. I don't think DIana really had "big dreams,: Like many women she wanted a happy marriage and a family. Charles was interested in another woman and should not have married Diana under those conditions. The other issue was that the public took to Diana, she was warmly welcomed on the first tour she did with Charles, of Wales, She wanted to do well for Charles but I think he had insecurity issues and got jealous early on.

 

[TLLK]

I just like to say, the POW was to old for her. Charles was set in his way. She was a 19 year old girl with big dreams. Her popularity didn't help either, because this put Charles some what in the shadow. I read somewhere Philip pushed Charles into this marriage, this was no help either. Every time Pss Diana made a sad face on cameras, it automatically was Charles fault. She had lot's of insecurities maybe even depressions I don't really know, no one does, but may I dare to say she was a bit unstable. The press was no help either, they liked to cause trouble and did. She loved her son's and had lots of compassion for others, This made her what she was the Peoples Princess. She had a terrible accident which took her life way to early, this is the 24th year of her death. I think it is time to let her rest in peace. I really believe she wants to be remembered as mother and Pss of Wales and want the people and her family go on with their lives and not hang around the passed.

I definitely agree that Charles was definitely set in his ways and over time resented his wife's popularity. However, it was ultimately Charles' decision to propose and her choice to accept. While there was pressure on Charles to marry, I can't say that Phillip pushed him into proposing to Diana.


[...]

 

[Sandy345]

Would it have been better for her if she was not moved into Clarence House, then Buckingham Palace? Maybe closer to her family or friends would have been better.

 

[TLLK]

Would it have been better for her if she was not moved into Clarence House, then Buckingham Palace? Maybe closer to her family or friends would have been better.

On one hand yes I believe that it would have been better for her to stay with family ie: The Fellowes or friends who could provide some emotional support. On the other hand I do believe that there were genuine concerns for her safety from the IRA threats etc...


Still staying with friends or CH/BP would have changed the sad fact that Charles and Diana were not well suited to each other and should not have married each other.

 

[Sandy345]

Once she moved in it was difficult for her to end the engagement. Had she been away from living with the royals it might have been possible for her and Charles to agree not to marry. He was reassuring her though, even leaving a note on her pillow the night before the wedding, an affectionate note.

 

[Sandy345]

[...]

Diana was besieged by the media and handled it as best she could. She did want to marry Charles and was on the 'list' of prospective brides for the Prince of wales. If Amanda Knatchbull or Anna Wallace had said yes to Charles proposal, Diana would not have been in the picture. If Diana said no he'd have found another young aristo to court. No matter what Diana wanted, Charles had to be the one to court and propose to her.

How did Diana "manipulate him" into marrying her? She could not force him. And at some point was prepared for him not to propose. She was an unsophisticated young woman with romantic notions. If she wanted to be Princess of Wales so badly and keep the title, she would have turned a blind eye to Camilla. Charles needed heirs and wanted them so when he found a young woman besotted with him and he was attracted to her and she had no experience, he felt she was the one. Could Charles have "manipulated her?" Sweet talking and all that.

Women of Diana's class were expected to "marry well." They generally did not go to University back then. Diana was far from lazy she could have lived off her inheritance but held down two jobs, one as a nanny and the other as an assistant at a Kindergarten. She certainly had a work ethic and went right out doing tours and royal work. As far as her schooling, DIana related that she had issues taking tests, she would "freeze up" while taking exams. Diana was praised for her royal work. Charles was lucky to have found her but IMO never appreciated her.

The royals always looked for "bloodlines" back then to marry in. Diana filled the bill, since she was from an old and established family, and related to Winston Churchill. That was part of the reason DIana was on the list of eligible brides for Charles.

 

[TLLK]

IMHO Diana was young and naive and wanted to be the glittering "Princess of Wales"-title and Charles slowly needed a wife and kids, so she could manipulate him into marrying her. Since her childhood, any advance in her status had been good for her and found her new friends - when she became "Lady" Diana, when her father inherited Althorp and the Spencer money and they moved there. She had been too lazy to look for a more advanced education, but she loved London life and being married to an influential man was something she could imagine. Of course there would be love, too! That was exactly what the late 70ties and early 80ties were all about - a miraculous, bubbly, wonderful time for the lucky ones.

Keep in mind that Diana with her academic record would have certainly never qualified for admission to a British university so I can't say it was that she was "too lazy" to look for more advanced education. I'm not familiar with the necessary requirements to apply to a training college to become a secretary or administrative aide. Also her homesickness meant she also didn't complete her term at her Swiss finishing school. So she was limited as to where she could find employment. She seemed content with her various part time jobs: nanny, teacher's aide, dance instructor, and house cleaner and it allowed her freedom for the weekends to attend house parties etc...


I do agree that the Spencer's plan for all three of their daughters was to have all married to influential men who would provide them with a safe and comfortable life among their social set.

 

[QueenMathilde]

I remember when they got engaged People magazine wrote an article about how she was a "commoner". You got the impression they met at a local mall rather than she had royal blood as well.

 

[Denville]

I remember when they got engaged People magazine wrote an article about how she was a "commoner". You got the impression they met at a local mall rather than she had royal blood as well.

She was a commoner... She came from an upper class family but in the UK only the holder of the title is considered noble. and the next bride to marry into the RF came from a family which had "good blood" but no title and not much money....

 

[Heavs]

I remember when they got engaged People magazine wrote an article about how she was a "commoner". You got the impression they met at a local mall rather than she had royal blood as well.

I've seen some articles from the UK press at the time that imply the same sort of thing, emphasising that she was a nursery teaching assistant and lived in a flat with the girls rather than being a Princess. Technically she was a commoner but some really emphasised the "normal, average girl". No, or barely any mention of the fact that she was an Earl's daughter with close ties to the family.

 

[Denville]

I've seen some articles from the UK press at the time that imply the same sort of thing, emphasising that she was a nursery teaching assistant and lived in a flat with the girls rather than being a Princess. Technically she was a commoner but some really emphasised the "normal, average girl". No, or barely any mention of the fact that she was an Earl's daughter with close ties to the family.

Compared to previous ladies who had married into the senior RF, she was something of a girl next door... of course she met Charles because of her family connections, she was an Earl's daughter, and lived on a big estate.. but she did have an "ordinary" little job, as a nanny/nursery helper... She lived in a flat in London, she shared with other girls, and did her own housework.. Earls' daughters did by then lead that sort of ordinary life, and didn't necessarily do the Season or lead a glittering social life...or spend their time at balls and buying expensive clothes.. but it was the first time that someone like this had married a senior royal...

 

[AristoCat]

I've seen some articles from the UK press at the time that imply the same sort of thing, emphasising that she was a nursery teaching assistant and lived in a flat with the girls rather than being a Princess. Technically she was a commoner but some really emphasised the "normal, average girl". No, or barely any mention of the fact that she was an Earl's daughter with close ties to the family.

It was for the sake of the 'fairytale,' that there was this normalcy silliness. For some reason everyone wanted a fairytale, not a simple union of two people who came from the same background and found each other.

How did Diana "manipulate him" into marrying her? She could not force him. And at some point was prepared for him not to propose. She was an unsophisticated young woman with romantic notions. If she wanted to be Princess of Wales so badly and keep the title, she would have turned a blind eye to Camilla. Charles needed heirs and wanted them so when he found a young woman besotted with him and he was attracted to her and she had no experience, he felt she was the one. Could Charles have "manipulated her?" Sweet talking and all that.

Diana did go along with a media campaign that put huge pressure on Charles to propose. The media was ape over Diana and Diana saw it as a useful way to help her aspirations along. She wasn't entirely simple; she was from a family that had generations of aspirations towards a legitimate royal connection, via marriage.

 

[Curryong]

Diana gave no interviews prior to her engagement to Charles, neither did any of her family. As she had no Press or Comms Secretary as a single woman it's hard to see how she 'went along with the media campaign' in order to marry the Prince of Wales. What was she to do? Deny that they were dating? She said nothing or next to nothing to the reporters who were besieging her daily.

If Charles objected to all the speculation about any coming engagement reaching the level it did all he would have had to do would be to break it off with Diana (and we know he had doubts) and let the Press know that through discreet communications from BP. He was far more able to deal with the British media at fever pitch than a young girl who wasn't used to it, but he did nothing.

So are we to take from his inaction that Charles went along with the Press campaign as well, rather than trust his instincts that he and Diana would be a mismatch and act on them.

 

[Roslyn]

If Diana really wanted out of the relationship pre-engagement, all she had to do was talk to the media or someone else who would quote her, like her sister did. She had plenty of opportunites to do so as the reporters and cameramen were chasing her everywhere. She could also just have behaved a bit oddly or inappropriately in front of the cameras.

 

[Curryong]

Diana wanted to marry Charles. She didn't have another love tucked away in the background. It wasn't Diana who doubted the love she had for her future fiance/husband but Charles was filled with doubts and misgivings about their future match. He didn't love Diana [...]but he just passively went along with things when he could have changed them had he wanted to.

 

[Osipi]

Diana wanted to marry Charles. She didn't have another love tucked away in the background. It wasn't Diana who doubted the love she had for her future fiance/husband but Charles was filled with doubts and misgivings about their future match. He didn't love Diana, [...] but he just passively went along with things when he could have changed them had he wanted to.

Therein lies the difference between Charles and Diana. With Diana being only 19 and of a mind that said she would "keep herself tidy", Diana not only had no idea of what a strong physical relationship involved but also what a strong *emotional* and *mental* close relationship consisted of.

I do believe Charles and Diana had a strong physical pull towards each other and from what I understand, they were very compatible in that area at the beginning of their marriage. Diana found herself pregnant soon enough. What didn't work was they were totally in different worlds emotionally and mentally as, really, they hadn't been involved with each other long enough to form a good, healthy and strong emotional and mental connection.

Perhaps Diana expected Charles to be the knight with undying love always at her side forevermore that worshipped the ground she walked on. Perhaps Charles figured that eventually, with time, Diana would "get" him and come to understand his life, his roles and duties and be everything he ever needed in a consort. Neither one of their expectations were met by that other. Their wants and needs they expected from each other outside of a physical attraction meshed like oil and vinegar

 

[Curryong]

Diana was a very young 19. However, Charles was in his early thirties by the time he became engaged to Diana and presumably [...] did know what a strong mental and emotional relationship, where one is completely in tune with one's partner, is all about.

Yet Charles still passively let himself be carried off towards disaster by others, including the media, seemingly incapable of acting on instincts that must have said to him 'This girl is wrong for me. This doesn't feel as it should when you choose a possible future partner in life.'

Charles really could have broken it off with little trouble but negative articles in tabloids about his being an eternal bachelor before it even got to the stage of an engagement.

And I'm not so sure they were physically compatible even early on. In biographies on Charles there are passages about his saying to friends that the wedding night was quite strange, that Diana was 'a poppet, lovely but still a child', and her inexperience with sexual relations might in fact have made things awkward.

 

[Osipi]

And I'm not so sure they were physically compatible even early on. In biographies on Charles there are passages about his saying to friends that the wedding night was quite strange, that Diana was 'a poppet, lovely but still a child', and her inexperience with sexual relations might in fact have made things awkward.

There was an amusing anecdote in "The Housekeeper's Diary" where Diana and Charles were getting busy and Diana's foot accidentally hit the silent alarm button in the bedroom. Seems like a couple of RPOs got quite an eyeful when they burst into the room that day.

I think there were good times and there were bad times between the two of them during the marriage but they just didn't have the staying power to actively work together to sort things out and compromise. In a marriage you either grow together or you grow apart. With no real solid foundation for a marriage, they didn't have much stability to build on to begin with.

It's all water under the bridge now and Diana is at peace and Charles has moved on and is happy and content in his second marriage.