Charles and Camilla: Visit to Japan, Brunei & Indonesia - October 27-November 4, 2008

[Skydragon]

That is absolutely absurd. They've visited many muslim countreis as a couple and Camilla has never been "limited" in terms of what she does.
The idea that she would be there is pretty insulting to the Indonesians imo.....

So you are saying that if they went to Iran, as a woman she would be treated differently from other woman?

Actually that's not entirely correct. It's partly for insurance purposes but primarily because of the fact that smokers are never really viewed as fully "recovered".

It has nothing to do with insurance in the NHS, it is because the damage done is, in some cases irreversible. I have many friends in the 60+ age bracket who gave up smoking within the last 5 years and very few, despite being riders or walkers, can cope with heat.

 

[Skydragon]

So, then, then only post should be wow, what a great couple. There really doesn't need to be any discussion, just an overwhelming amount of posts saying how wonderful, how great, how grand.

Not at all, but do there need to be posters ready, willing and able to see the worst in every step Charles or Camilla make? It is a very sad and disturbing insight into how judgemental some people are, whilst writing anonymously on a forum! I have said before, how many would live up to the expectations they have of the royals, none I would expect.

Camilla's trip is being funded by taxpayers, but by being honest and declining the Indonesian trip, she has saved the taxpayer any cost. Charles is paying for her return flight and as the taxpayer does not fund either Charles or Camilla, those that do pay tax in the UK, have very little to complain about.

 

[Little_star]

So you are saying that if they went to Iran, as a woman she would be treated differently from other woman?

I'm not sure if you realise this but Indonesia isn't Iran, muslim countries aren't all like Iran or Saudi Arabia...coincidentally Saudi was one place Camilla visited previously and did most of the activities Charles did.

It has nothing to do with insurance in the NHS, it is because the damage done is, in some cases irreversible. I have many friends in the 60+ age bracket who gave up smoking within the last 5 years and very few, despite being riders or walkers, can cope with heat.

Having worked in the insurance industry in the past Im not going to argue with you when you're convinced you are right.

 

[Little_star]

Not at all, but do there need to be posters ready, willing and able to see the worst in every step Charles or Camilla make? It is a very sad and disturbing insight into how judgemental some people are, whilst writing anonymously on a forum!

Couldn't the same be said about some posters views on other royals...say Diana?

 

[tommy1716]

The days of the royal family being shown deference for no reason are over, Camilla, like EVERY OTHER member of the royal family must earn this and the respect of the public. She needs to show willing, and i don't think she is doing that here.
And anyone who thinks I am going to say that Camilla shouldn't perform a decent number of engagements because she use to smoke is living on another planet. In all honesty there is no, public at least, reason why Camilla can't go on this entire trip. The Queen went on an overseas trip to Eastern Europe before Peter Phillips wedding and yet didn't need to return half way through for a rest. This is our future Queen (i'm not going into that, i have NO opinion on that issue) and she needs to show that she will be a good representative for us overseas.
As for posting annomously, send me a private message and I'll tell you who i am.

 

[Al_bina]

So you are saying that if they went to Iran, as a woman she would be treated differently from other woman? ... [snipped].

Crown Princess Mathilde of Belgium joined Crown Princess Phillipe in Qatar and Bahrain. Women don in abayas in both countries. Crown Princess Mathilde was treated as the wife of a foreign dignitary. There were no problems with official engagements. Brunei is the Muslim country as well. Duchess of Corwnall does go to Brunei, but not Indonesia. How is visiting Brunei different from visiting Indonesia in this respect? Except for the fact that Prince Charles and Sultan of Brunei are friends.

 

[Skydragon]

Having worked in the insurance industry in the past Im not going to argue with you when you're convinced you are right.

The NHS is not involved with the insurance industry as such. I have many friends and acquaintances who work within the NHS and many who have undergone bypasses, who would tell you of the added risks of a smoker or an ex smoker. Do you think the pictures of diseased lungs happen after they are dead?

Couldn't the same be said about some posters views on other royals...say Diana?

I base my comments regarding Diana on either personal knowledge, the facts that are widely available from a vast range of sources, age and experience. If Camilla started pulling the same 'stunts', co writing a book whilst denying any involvement for instance, then she would receive the same condemnation from me, but so far she has behaved impecably, IMO.

 

[Skydragon]

By the way, Brunei is the Muslim country as well,

Really, I would never have guessed. As I am sure you know, the fact that Brunei is a Muslim country is well known. However the acceptance of women differs drastically from country to country and I did only say MAY BE a factor.

 

[Menarue]

The lesson we can learn from this thread seems to be "Don´t Ever Ever Smoke or you won´t be able to stay long in the kitchen".

 

[tommy1716]

The attitude shown by some people on this board to others is disgusting.

 

[Skydragon]

The lesson we can learn from this thread seems to be "Don´t Ever Ever Smoke or you won´t be able to stay long in the kitchen".

Not quite, just if you do smoke or have smoked, you might not be able to enjoy many of the pursuits non smokers do in later life. It is quite distressing to see once active friends who smoked, struggling. Who wants to stay long in the kitchen anyway, get someone else to deal with that!

 

[Skydragon]

The attitude shown by some people on this board to others is disgusting.

Do you mean like this remark?

And anyone who thinks I am going to say that Camilla shouldn't perform a decent number of engagements because she use to smoke is living on another planet.

 

[tommy1716]

I was referring to some people inability to accept others view points and people who think anyone who disagrees with them is wrong.

 

[Skydragon]

I was referring to some people inability to accept others view points and people who think anyone who disagrees with them is wrong.

As I believe I am the only one who has pointed out the problems with ex smokers, I object to being told I live on another planet! I can fully accept other peoples reasoned views and fact based comments but, IMO, some of the presumptions and comments on here are neither.

Of course if you have one view and someone else has another you will think they are wrong!

 

[Al_bina]

In the end of the day ... I do not care whether or not Duchess of Cornwall cuts the trip short. She can do whatever she wants:call the visit off or go to Indonesia and beyond. It is only the British, who should care since they are to pay the bill.
The main thing for me is an opportunity to see the Japanese Imperial family. Duchess of Cornwall will probably get the Order of the Precious Crown or the Order of the Rising Sun (I am not sure about the class though).

The lesson we can learn from this thread seems to be "Don´t Ever Ever Smoke or you won´t be able to stay long in the kitchen".

That is one brilliant conclusion...

 

[Skydragon]

In the end of the day ... I do not care whether or not Duchess of Cornwall cut the trip short. She can do whatever she wants:call the visit off or go to Indonesia and beyond. It is only the British, who should care since they are to pay the bill..

Isn't it wonderful then that she will be saving US money by having her flight paid for by her husband.

 

[Al_bina]

Once again the parties involved can do whatever they deem appropriate.

 

[Jacknch]

If Camilla is as lazy as a number of people seem to think, then surely she wouldn't go on the trip at all and would stay at home? To ask a 61 year old woman - royal or not - to do everything you want her to do is abit much isn't it?

 

[Skydragon]

If Camilla is as lazy as a number of people seem to think, then surely she wouldn't go on the trip at all and would stay at home? To ask a 61 year old woman - royal or not - to do everything you want her to do is abit much isn't it?

Good well reasoned point, IMO!

What people are forgetting is that these trips are planned and agreed by HM, Clarence house and the government and if they see nothing wrong with it, with the facts at their fingertips, who are we to judge?

 

[GrandDuchess]

Why do people in the royal watching community always have to question each other's opinions? Just because some of us don't think everything the royals do and their decisions are fantastic and that they look perfect all the time, we are always jumped at because we don't share the opinions of others. Please, let us all have our opinions. Some may find an excuse for Camilla's decision in this case, others may not. But let us have our opinions to ourselves, we don't need to begin to question each other all the time

About this particular matter, I have always been a supporter of Camilla and have been hoping she will one day be called Queen and not Princess Consort, but that doesn't mean that I cannot sometimes criticize or not share her opinions or disagree with some decisions at times. Just like I have high expectations on my political leaders, I have the same on the royals - especially since they come to their positions on a hereditary basis. And just like normal employers have high expectations on their employees, I have high expectations on the royals. A boss in working life would not accept if a businessman or woman decided to fly home during a tour of the Middle East to negotiate business contracts just because he/she thought a country was too hot and humid, the same goes for the royals.

 

[tommy1716]

Isn't it wonderful then that she will be saving US money by having her flight paid for by her husband.

We wont be saved any money - the same plane that flies them there will fly him home alone. yes we have been saved the extra cost of flying the Duchess home earlier but then thats only fair. We wont be SAVED anything.

I was suggesting earlier that i don't have much sympathy for the arguemnt that as Camilla personally chose to smoke that is an excuse for her not to carry out full royal tours.

If she can't do the time then she should have the crown!!! (or coronet or tiara)

 

[Skydragon]

Why do people in the royal watching community always have to question each other's opinions?

I suppose it happens because of the age difference and experiences.

Just because some of us don't think everything the royals do and their decisions are fantastic and that they look perfect all the time, we are always jumped at because we don't share the opinions of others. Please, let us all have our opinions. Some may find an excuse for Camilla's decision in this case, others may not. But let us have our opinions to ourselves, we don't need to begin to question each other all the time

But isn't that what a discussion is, questioning others views and trying to find out why they have that opinion? What they based their opinion on?

---snipped----A boss in working life would not accept if a businessman or woman decided to fly home during a tour of the Middle East to negotiate business contracts just because he/she thought a country was too hot and humid, the same goes for the royals.

Camilla is not going to negotiate anything though. You might be surprised to know that some employees decline to visit ceetain countries, I know of one who declined a trip to Japan, they just gave the assignment to another employee. Nobody can be forced to engage in foreign trips that they don't want to go on.

 

[COUNTESS]

You are right, they can't be forced to go to anywhere they don't want, but they can be fired or passed over for promotions. That's how the corporate world plays the game.

 

[Skydragon]

We wont be saved any money - the same plane that flies them there will fly him home alone. yes we have been saved the extra cost of flying the Duchess home earlier but then thats only fair. We wont be SAVED anything.

I was suggesting earlier that i don't have much sympathy for the arguemnt that as Camilla personally chose to smoke that is an excuse for her not to carry out full royal tours.

If she can't do the time then she should have the crown!!! (or coronet or tiara)

It certainly costs less for one passenger rather than two, so the cost of the return will save us money!

When Camilla took up smoking, it was considered normal, it was only later that the damage smoking did was discovered and publicised. By then, as you will know, millions were hooked on this drug. She has done incredibly well to give up, but the damage may already have been done. This is a little like the Saudi trip when everyone was complaining that Camilla wasn't pulling her weight and then it was announced that she was to have a hysterectomy and that was why she was so tired.
She should indeed have the crown, on that we can agree.

 

[Skydragon]

You are right, they can't be forced to go to anywhere they don't want, but they can be fired or passed over for promotions. That's how the corporate world plays the game.

No, they can't be fired, in the UK workers are protected from that. If they are already near the top enough to be sent abroad, they will hardly be passed over for promotion and if they are, they can go to an employment tribunal. Thats how the corporate world is controlled in the UK.

 

[COUNTESS]

No, there are two planes involved and they are charters. So, the plane that flies them out will still have to flyhim home and there won't be any difference in the cost. They charge for fuel and by the hour, not by the passenger on chartered flights. So, the cost remains the same to the taxpayer. On the other hand, you are right, if you are not British, you have no right to complain, because it is costing you nothing.

 

[Skydragon]

No, there are two planes involved and they are charters. So, the plane that flies them out will still have to flyhim home and there won't be any difference in the cost. They charge for fuel and by the hour, not by the passenger on chartered flights. So, the cost remains the same to the taxpayer. On the other hand, you are right, if you are not British, you have no right to complain, because it is costing you nothing.

Do we know that Camilla's return flight is a charter or that it is charged by time and fuel? I haven't seen anything to confirm this. I know that when we charter, there is a premium paid for the number of passengers.

 

[NotAPretender]

Wow. Had no idea

You obviously have never been on any kind of "offcial tour" - .

Had no idea that the Duchess posted here.

 

[Skydragon]

I do find it strange that some posters object to having their posts and opinions questioned, whilst questioning other peoples posts and opinions. Can anyone tell me why it is OK to question something I have written, but it becomes 'wrong' if I state my opinion or disagree with them?

 

[BellaFay]

Do we know that Camilla's return flight is a charter or that it is charged by time and fuel? I haven't seen anything to confirm this. I know that when we charter, there is a premium paid for the number of passengers.

She will be flying back with her staff on a scheduled flight according to the Daily Telegraph I think. + She and Charles will also be attending the Remembrance Service at the Albert Hall on Saturday 8th & the Sunday Rememebrance service at the Cenotaph followed on the 11th (Tuesday by attending another Rememebrance service in France. Before getting back to Buckingham Palace the following day for the 1st birthday party being given by the Queen. I can't see why Camilla shouldn't have a few days off before going through all those.