British Crown Jewels

[Prince of Chota]

They looked pretty darn real to me.

The question is, what are the stones, then? It's pretty hard to replicate the correct reflection of light. For example, the crown of Louis XV in the Louvre has glass now instead of gems, and it's painfully obvious.

 

[PrinceOfCanada]

Well, honestly, I didn't much believe it. Would make sense of course to keep them hidden--the Tower isn't so impregnable that a dedicated team couldn't get the Jewels out. And that would be quite the blow to national pride.

 

[Prince of Chota]

I think, though, that rather than replace the real pieces with fakes, the government takes care to install the latest security features to ensure the safety of the crown jewels. The same is true for pieces like the Hope Diamond and Empress Marie-Louise's tiara, which are on display in the Smithsonian Museum in Washington DC.

 

[Lord Glencairn]

UK Crown Jewels.... legislation preventing removal from the country

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d78/Mountbatten/Crown%20Jewels/imperialcrownofindia.jpg

I recently tried to make enquiries concerning the legislation that apparently prevents the UK regalia from being removed from the UK... the reason supposedly why the Imperial Crown of India was created for the Delhi Durbar in 1911.

All usual sources refer to "ancient English law" - or other such vague terms. I have tried looking up the specific Act of Parliament on the Government's Statute Law Database (which is usually very reliable!) and have also emailed both Parliament's Legislation Archivist and the Curator at the Tower of London... who both oddly??? can not be specific (which I felt was really amazing - and frustrating!!)

Can anyone here please assist or make any sensible suggestions please... as Im doubting if there really is any active/current legislation.

Many thanks,
Glencairn

(PS - my 1st post!)

 

[GillW]

Well, honestly, I didn't much believe it. Would make sense of course to keep them hidden--the Tower isn't so impregnable that a dedicated team couldn't get the Jewels out. And that would be quite the blow to national pride.

....and when exactly was the last time you visited the Vault (literally) where the jewels are on permanent display? - with doors several feet thick and surrounded by absolute state of the art security, armed soldiers & guards....and more that we can't even see or detect. It would take not simply a "dedicated team" but more like a huge Army of well rehearsed crack troops. Getting anything out of the Jewel House at the Tower is about as likley as getting a ton of gold bars out of Fort Knox....

Also, they are so very obviously stunningly beautiful and priceless gems that any one seeing them would have no doubts at all of their genuine-ness (if there is such a word!!)

I think, though, that rather than replace the real pieces with fakes, the government takes care to install the latest security features to ensure the safety of the crown jewels. The same is true for pieces like the Hope Diamond and Empress Marie-Louise's tiara, which are on display in the Smithsonian Museum in Washington DC.

I've been to the Smithsonian & seen their breathtaking collection of jewels - but security there seems almost non-existent compared to the Tower of London (OK, the Museum's armed guards have very visible guns, but apart from that it seemed more like a sweetie shop than a secure environment)

I'm not detracting from the Smithsonian - I loved every minute of my visit and truly appreciated being able to not only see but even PHOTOGRAPH their awesome jewel collection (try getting a camera out in the Jewel House of the Tower of London and see what happens.....)

 

[PrinceOfCanada]

I've been to the Smithsonian & seen their breathtaking collection of jewels - but security there seems almost non-existent compared to the Tower of London

The best security is invisible. If you can't see it, it's harder to evade.

 

[Lord Glencairn]

UK Crown Jewels.... legislation preventing removal from the country

I recently tried to make enquiries concerning the legislation that apparently prevents the UK regalia from being removed from the UK... the reason supposedly why the Imperial Crown of India was created for the Delhi Durbar in 1911.

Anyone got any ideas please??? Ive even emailed Collins & Sons (The Crown Jeweller) and got no reply!!!! Surely with all this wealth of knowledge - there must be someone who can help????

 

[PrinceOfCanada]

You might do better to call the Tower of London or Buckingham Palace. I'm trying to dig through stuff online to find the actual law.

Actually, better: call Westminster. The archives there should be able to help.

 

[qui mal y pense]

In this pic (source: hola) is Her Majesty the Queen Elizabeth II wearing the miniatures of her parents? I am sure one is King George VI, but I'm not sure if the other is herself or the late Queen Elizabeth the Queen Mother?
http://i3.tinypic.com/wk0mqf.jpg

I believe the Queen wears miniatures of her father and grandfather.

 

[Thomas Parkman]

If my memory serves me she is wearing Queen Alexandria's kokoshnik tiara, the family orders of her father George VI and her grandfather George V and the star and sash of the Order of the Garter. You cannot get more bedecked than that. The only thing that is about as grandiose and magnificent is the Queen of Denmark bedecked in tiara, jewels, etc and the Order of the Elephant, the oldest order of chivalry in Europe I believe. Cheers.

 

[Lady Marmalade]

I could not agree more, Thomas. She just drips in the jewels. WOW!!!

 

[Lord Glencairn]

You might do better to call the Tower of London or Buckingham Palace. I'm trying to dig through stuff online to find the actual law.

Actually, better: call Westminster. The archives there should be able to help.

I have already tried the Parliamentary Archivist, the curator of the Tower of London and have asked the question via Royal Insight (on the Royal website). No one seems to know. In fact the curator of the Tower asked if I found out, could I let them know?????

Ive looked through the on-line UK Legal Database - and nothing... which makes me think, is it the law or not????

 

[Elspeth]

Well, one of the sites on a Google search says that "by ancient custom" the Crown isn't supposed to leave the country. So there may not actually be a law.

Have you tried e-mailing the Palace?

 

[Thomas Parkman]

Ah, but Elspeth, Most Noble, Oh She Who Must Be Obeyed, do you not, oh Noble One, understand that Great Britain does not have a written constitution, that is a single document in one written form. There are numerous laws on the books which serve as the constitution along with "ancient custom" and established custom. It is simply understood that this is how things are done and certain things are "just not done." Lovely. One of those things is that the regalia do not leave the shores of the kingdom. That is about as ironclad as any law in written form on the books. Cheers.

 

[Lord Glencairn]

About the State Regalia leaving Britain...

Can anyone help PLEASE - its driving me wild with frustration!!!!!

Well I tried ALL recognised sources... so then I thought I would email the Crown Jeweller (H Collins)... his reply is as follows (which I thought I would share with you all):

"I have done some research into this and had no luck, so I asked Sir Hugh Roberts, Director of the Royal Collection, who found the following:

As often is the case with such matters, it seems there is no hard and fast Law or Statute that one can put one's hand on. I have always assumed that the 'custom and practice' (for such I think it really is) of not allowing the State Regalia to leave the country arose at the time of the deposition of James II, when, I think there was a real fear that he might make off with the Regalia. Certainly by the time that the Delhi Durbar was being thought about, the King's Private Secretary (Sir Arthur Bigge) was in no doubt that a new crown would have to be made: 'Nor is it possible' he wrote to the Viceroy 'to take the State crowns out of England (9 Feb 1911).

This opinion was not questioned by the Viceroy and on 27 March 1911 the Private Secretary wrote to the Viceroy again: 'As no Regalia can be taken from England, the King has ordered a crown...from Garrard'. Three days after he telegraphed the Viceroy: 'There are two indisputable facts, viz., a crown must be available and none of the Regalia can be brought from England' (30 March).

I do hope this helps with your enquiry, please do not hesitate to contact us if we can be of any further assistance.

Yours sincerely

Harry Collins

Crown Jeweller"
​

Hope you found this interesting.

Glencairn.

 

[Warren]

** HM Presents the Imperial State Crown **​

Credit for this wonderful find goes to Alex G at RJOTWMB.
It was filmed in conjunction with the Royal Heritage book in 1976.
The clip finishes with a rousing version of Zadok the Priest.​

YouTube - The Imperial State Crown by Queen Elizabeth II​

 

[rubies]

Warren, just .........Extrodinary!!! Thank You.

 

[bartholomeus]

Do you think when Charles is crowned that Camilla will wear the Queen Mum's crown or one of the older ones like Queen Mary's? I know she has a lot of the Queen Mum's other jewels like the Honeycomb tiara.

My guess is that HRH The Duchess of Cornwall will not be crowned. It is not necessary to crown the consort, HRH will become Queen anyhow, unless parliament passes a bill. On the occasion of the coronation of current heir apparent HRH will probably wear the diamond diadem made for George IV that HM wears on her ride to and from the palace of Westminster for the opening of parliament.

 

[Catherine Helvin]

In this pic (source: hola) is Her Majesty the Queen Elizabeth II wearing the miniatures of her parents? I am sure one is King George VI, but I'm not sure if the other is herself or the late Queen Elizabeth the Queen Mother?
And one more question: What is the name and history of the tiara?

No, the person depicted in the pic on the blue ribbon is her grandfather King George V.

 

[October]

I'm not sure if this is the proper place for this, but I wanted to show a pic I found when I was researching the York dynasty (my fave dynasty) it's the crown of Edward IV's sister, Margaret.

Excerpt from wiki: Margaret of York - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
"Margaret's crown (made in about 1461) was adorned with pearls, and with enamelled white roses for the house of York set between red, green and white enamelled letters of her name, with gold C's and M's, entwined with lovers' knots (it can still be seen in the treasury at Aachen Cathedral. The removal of the crown to Aachen was significant, since it allowed its survival from the ravages of the later English Civil War which involved the destruction of all the main English Crown Jewells. It thus remains the only medieval royal British crown still surviving."

I know wiki got the underlined bit wrong, because an earlier post in this very thread by ysbel was a pic of a tiara belonging to the daughter of Henry IV, therefore there are at least two crowns still in existence worn by English royalty.

It's so small to fit over a conical headdress or a hennin. The link below leads to a site where you can see the crown on the left, unfortunatly I can't find a better pic.

Lady Margaret Plantagenet

 

[Thena]

In this pic (source: hola) is Her Majesty the Queen Elizabeth II wearing the miniatures of her parents? I am sure one is King George VI, but I'm not sure if the other is herself or the late Queen Elizabeth the Queen Mother?
And one more question: What is the name and history of the tiara?

I think the tiara question has been addressed, so I'll discuss the miniatures. They are awards from the Royal Family Orders of various sovereigns.

The Royal Family Order is a personal memento issued to female members of the family, usually as a thank you for their service to the monarch. The custom is to wear the most recent one towards the top. Queen Elizabeth II wears the order of her father, George VI, and her grandfather, George V. So that would be her grandfather in that second one with the blue ribbon.

Queen Alexandra had her own personal order that she bestowed upon those in her service, but it was an unofficial order. Queen Elizabeth the Queen Mother did not have an order of her own. She wore the order of her daughter, her husband, and her father in law.

It's also interesting to note who receives the Queen's order and who doesn't. Diana received one, but Sarah, Duchess of York did not. Camilla and Sophie have both received it, as well as Zara Phillips. The Duchess of Kent and Gloucester have it as well, as does Princess Alexandra. Princess Michael of Kent does not have it.

It's not something that gets announced, either, so the only way to see who has it is to see who is wearing one at formal events.

ETA: Whoops! When I started digging a little deeper to see if there were photos of Zara wearing the order, I found that Wikipedia lied to me!

 

[Warren]

ETA: Whoops! When I started digging a little deeper to see if there were photos of Zara wearing the order, I found that Wikipedia lied to me!

This strange furphy of "Zara has the RFO" has been an ongoing issue at Wiki. The Zara reference is removed by someone only to be reinstated by (I assume) someone else. This to and fro on the Wiki RFO page has been a regular occurrence for at least two years, maybe longer. No substantiation of this "Zara has the RFO" claim has ever been made.

 

[Lady H]

This beautiful piece of jewel is made in diamonds and pearls. The circular diadem is decorated with four crosses-pattées, set with diamonds, representing St. George, the front one with a wonderful honey-coloured diamond in the centre. The four bouquets of flowers in diamonds include roses, thistles and shamrocks, representing England, Scotland and Ireland. Wales, being a principality, was not represented. Below, two rows of pearls with diamonds in the middle make it one of the finest pieces of jewellery of the royal collection. It is part of the Crown Jewels since the death of HM Queen Victoria, who left it to the Crown in her will.

The picture is scanned from an old magazine and hosted by myself.​

wonderful !
an other view
Royal Collection - The Diamond Diadem
more informations on our Facebook !

 

[Lady H]

And a video (2006): all is in the title

YouTube - Queen's Speech 2006

also on our FB

 

[mezzamay]

Thank you ! I enjoyed that video clip

 

[mezzamay]

Prince of Wales Crown 1911

Hello!
I have only just started to become interested in Royal Jewels so I was excited to join this group!
...I am interested in finding out more about the "Prince of Wales 1911 Crown". I'm not even sure if this is the correct name for it which makes searching for information quite difficult.
It looks like there are some extremely knowledgeable members in this forum so I was hoping that somebody could give me some information about it?

This is what I'm referring to (I couldn't find a decent colour image, maybe somebody has one they could post?):

Does anybody know the correct name for this crown?

 

[Duchessmary]

I think so. The one used at the Investiture of the Prince of Wales?

 

[Warren]

The Prince of Wales 1911 Investiture coronet had no arches. See here.

mezzamay, there is an image of your crown/coronet here, identified as "British Coronet HRH Prince of Wales" but the date, "circa 1895" confuses the issue. Maybe it is more stylised than real, or the date is incorrect.

However, the Prince of Wales (later George V) wore an arched coronet at the coronation of his father Edward VII in 1902. I can't find a photo but there's a "representation" here. Note the difference in the arches, but without a picture or accurate description it's impossible to tell if it is correct.

What we do know is that Edward VIII as Prince of Wales wore his father's coronet with arches detached at his Investiture in 1911, which leads us back to first picture above.

 

[Wayne]

...the Order of the Elephant, the oldest order of chivalry in Europe I believe.

Actually I think that the Order of the Garter is the oldest order of chivalry in Europe.

 

[Warren]

Order of the Garter: established 1348
Order of the Elephant: established 1693