Bowing and Curtseying

[Pranter]

Yeah but we are Americans and we generally don't do that whole curtesy thing anyway. It's not a custom found in a Republic.



LaRae

 

[ROYAL NORWAY]

Why on earth should the British PM curtsey to foreign royals? Many of the other heads of states/governments and their spouses doesn't bow/curtsey to royals (not even to the QEII).

 

[Yashal]

Well, it seems only logical that a head of state doesn't bow down to another one. They are both on the same level, no matter if one of them is "only" elected or if one has been in charge for 40 years and the other one only for four months.

As for the prime ministers, I remember Margaret Thatcher curtseying to Juan Carlos.

 

[Rudolph]

Would the Belgium PM bow to the Duchess of Cambridge?

 

[wyevale]

Personally I think it appropriate for Ministers and officials to bow/curtsey to any and all reigning Monarchs... in recognition of their office and of their nation..

 

[Moonmaiden23]

Well, it seems only logical that a head of state doesn't bow down to another one. They are both on the same level, no matter if one of them is "only" elected or if one has been in charge for 40 years and the other one only for four months.

As for the prime ministers, I remember Margaret Thatcher curtseying to Juan Carlos.

So do I. I remember it well.

 

[tommy100]

Well having watched todays's events the British PM did curtsey to both the King & Queen of the Belgians (only a tiny dip as such but no less than Camilla does) so I don't think she has anything against curtseying to foreign royals in all circumstances. I guess like anything it just depends.

 

[COUNTESS]

Such an archaic and foolish custom. No one is better than the other.

 

[royal rob]

Such an archaic and foolish custom. No one is better than the other.

I agree and if I attempted one with my condition I would finish up in a heap at their feet

 

[MARG]

Such an archaic and foolish custom. No one is better than the other.

I agree and if I attempted one with my condition I would finish up in a heap at their feet

I think referring to a custom that does not apply to your country as "archaic and foolish" is both rude and arrogant. Just like paying compliments to a senior officer in the military does not mean he or she is better than me. I would be saluting the Queen's Commission not the person holding the rank. Nobody is going to make you bow or curtsey and in this century it is mostly up to the individual as to whether they do or don't. Personally, I do and have.

As to creaking bones, most royals would be the last people to expect let alone insist that one bow or curtsey should you either be unable or unwilling to do so. However, I find the necessity to denigrate other countries traditions because they clash with yours, narrow-minded and insulting. Can they not be quaint and interesting and just make you happy they are not your customs?

 

[royal rob]

She is my Queen so I am allowed to have an opinion

 

[wyevale]

referring to a custom that does not apply to your country as "archaic and foolish" is both rude and arrogant

Amen.. but fairly typical from inhabitants of a Nation that pays 'lip service' to equality. but deprives MILLIONS of adequate Health care..

 

[JR76]

Amen.. but fairly typical from inhabitants of a Nation that pays 'lip service' to equality. but deprives MILLIONS of adequate Health care..

Please, lets not drag US politics into this part of the internet aswell.

 

[Jacknch]

Indeed, let's keep politics out of the discussion. Let us also be respectful of one-anothers' opinions when we disagree and be mindful of the fact that bowing, curtseying etc is more so in respect of the office held, rather than the person as an individual.

 

[Minea]

Curtseying in old times looked dignified and smooth, but with modern clothes it looks a bit awkward. Seeing the bended legs somehow destroys the illusion. But it's fine by me if someone wants to curtsy as long as it's done voluntarily. I wouldn't do it.

 

[Mbruno]

Curtseying in old times looked dignified and smooth, but with modern clothes it looks a bit awkward. Seeing the bended legs somehow destroys the illusion. But it's fine by me if someone wants to curtsy as long as it's done voluntarily. I wouldn't do it.

My impression is that Americans in particular tend to exaggerate the meaning of bowing/curtsying, somehow equating it to one person acknowledging his/her inferiority to another. To me, it is just a socially acceptable form of greeting someone who holds a certain rank or title. In other words, in the same way it is appropriate for an active military person to salute another person in uniform, or for a Catholic to kiss the hand of a bishop, it is equally appropriate to bow/curtsy to a king/queen or a prince/princess. In any case, as you said, bowing/curtsying is always voluntary and it is not like you will be thrown in the Tower of London and have your head chopped off if you don't do it !

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

Let us all keep in mind that, also in the UK, a révérence is always optional. No one is obliged to do so. Great that the Prime Minister went down through her knees. It was equally great for the Belgian King and Queen when she "just" offered a hand.

I have the idea the royals themselves (outside the UK) often make an impression: "No, no, please, I am honoured to meet you", a hidden sign of 'just a handshake is very fine'.

 

[vkrish]

How much ever a fan of curtseying, I do not appreciate a Prime Minister curtseying the Duke and Duchess of Cambridge. Curtseying the Queen is a must, and maybe Prince of Wales.. but not anyone further. She is the person who really rules the country in the name of the Queen. So she need not pay homage to the lesser royals.. A polite handshake would suffice. Thatcher would have never done that. Just the Queen and the mister. And if I remember correctly, none of the other male PMs head bobbed to anyone other than the Queen and DoE

 

[Princess Bobbi]

I've been lurking for years and have only asked one or two questions before. I do I have a quick question. I am disabled and not able to curtsy to anyone. If I ever met a Royal, would it ever be appropriate for me, as a woman to bow to royalty and if you have a link showing that, I"d really appreciate it.

 

[Pranter]

How much ever a fan of curtseying, I do not appreciate a Prime Minister curtseying the Duke and Duchess of Cambridge. Curtseying the Queen is a must, and maybe Prince of Wales.. but not anyone further. She is the person who really rules the country in the name of the Queen. So she need not pay homage to the lesser royals.. A polite handshake would suffice. Thatcher would have never done that. Just the Queen and the mister. And if I remember correctly, none of the other male PMs head bobbed to anyone other than the Queen and DoE

Thatcher curtsied to the Queen Mother, I've seen a pic of that. ETA just found one of her curtseying to Diana too.



LaRae

 

[Osipi]

I've been lurking for years and have only asked one or two questions before. I do I have a quick question. I am disabled and not able to curtsy to anyone. If I ever met a Royal, would it ever be appropriate for me, as a woman to bow to royalty and if you have a link showing that, I"d really appreciate it.

I see that you're from the US like I am. I believe that it is totally optional whether or not to bow and curtsy to anyone. Even in countries where they do have royalty. I'm sure that if you were to meet a royal, the best thing for you to do is what you're comfortable with. If you were to meet a royal though and knew about it in advance, you might want to check what is the protocol. One thing I know with the British royals is that with the Queen, its "Your majesty" the first time you address her and "Ma'am (as in ham) after that. One does not initiate the conversation but waits to be addressed.

I'm sure I'll be corrected if I'm wrong about things because there are people far more knowledgeable than I on this matter.

I know that if I were to even attempt to do a curtsy, I'd be kissing shoes right quick.

Welcome to posting in the forums Princess Bobbi!

 

[duchessrachel]

I am American but I would gladly curtsy to any of the working royal family members because I am such an admirer of them and of their commitment to service. However, it hurts my knees so I am afraid they would have to pick me up off the floor afterward.

 

[duchessrachel]

How much ever a fan of curtseying, I do not appreciate a Prime Minister curtseying the Duke and Duchess of Cambridge. Curtseying the Queen is a must, and maybe Prince of Wales.. but not anyone further. She is the person who really rules the country in the name of the Queen. So she need not pay homage to the lesser royals.. A polite handshake would suffice. Thatcher would have never done that. Just the Queen and the mister. And if I remember correctly, none of the other male PMs head bobbed to anyone other than the Queen and DoE

I saw that picture too and Kate looked a little surprised by it to me.

 

[Marchesina]

My impression is that Americans in particular tend to exaggerate the meaning of bowing/curtsying, somehow equating it to one person acknowledging his/her inferiority to another. To me, it is just a socially acceptable form of greeting someone who holds a certain rank or title. In other words, in the same way it is appropriate for an active military person to salute another person in uniform, or for a Catholic to kiss the hand of a bishop, it is equally appropriate to bow/curtsy to a king/queen or a prince/princess. In any case, as you said, bowing/curtsying is always voluntary and it is not like you will be thrown in the Tower of London and have your head chopped off if you don't do it !

This reminds me of those Jane Austen's book tv adaptations where ladies and gentlemen do greet each other by curtsying and bowing, no matter their status. Of course with royalty ranking is involved and they do not respond to the greeting by bowing/curtsying in return...but nowadays it is perceived as a submission to another person. If it is an act of submission..I would say it is more to the institution/role/authority they represent, rather than the person per se.

 

[Ish]

How much ever a fan of curtseying, I do not appreciate a Prime Minister curtseying the Duke and Duchess of Cambridge. Curtseying the Queen is a must, and maybe Prince of Wales.. but not anyone further. She is the person who really rules the country in the name of the Queen. So she need not pay homage to the lesser royals.. A polite handshake would suffice. Thatcher would have never done that. Just the Queen and the mister. And if I remember correctly, none of the other male PMs head bobbed to anyone other than the Queen and DoE

This is a little... I can't find the right word, but I feel like it's a bit bit picky and derogatory - both towards May and the Cambridges.

William is the second in line to the throne. He's not some "lesser" royal. In some ways he is less than the Queen's younger children, but in other ways he is more than them.

For the Prime Minister to curtesy to a man and woman who are her future King and Queen is not inappropriate, not if the PM does not feel so. May is at times a bit off in her following of protocol - she seems to be more for the display, even when it's unnecessary - but it seems silly to critique her for curtsying to the Cambridges.

 

[carlota]

i also do not find it necessary for mrs. may to curtsy to william and kate. she is the PM after all, and although she owes respect to the queen (and, okay, to the heir, charles) i doubt she is required to curtsy to anyone else. the sooner we know, she will be curtsying to george and that is just not right.

i found this picture explaining who kate needs to curtsy to when she is alone, and who curtsies kate always. in the picture, it says the sophie, zara and harrys wife must curtsy to kate always. WHAT?! i have never seen sophie or zara curtsying to kate. wonder if the chart is incorrect?

http://www.macleans.ca/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/curtseykate.jpg

 

[COUNTESS]

I think referring to a custom that does not apply to your country as "archaic and foolish" is both rude and arrogant. Just like paying compliments to a senior officer in the military does not mean he or she is better than me. I would be saluting the Queen's Commission not the person holding the rank. Nobody is going to make you bow or curtsey and in this century it is mostly up to the individual as to whether they do or don't. Personally, I do and have.

As to creaking bones, most royals would be the last people to expect let alone insist that one bow or curtsey should you either be unable or unwilling to do so. However, I find the necessity to denigrate other countries traditions because they clash with yours, narrow-minded and insulting. Can they not be quaint and interesting and just make you happy they are not your customs?

No, it indicates that doing such makes the person to whom you are bowing or curtseying superior than you. It is a tradition that needs to be lost. There are lots of customs in many nations that lauded one person over another, it should have gone like hoop skirts.

 

[cepe]

All of you democracy, equality determined types have to understand that it is NOT demanded of anyone. It is personal choice.

And who are we to decide that someone shouldnt do what they wish, whixh doesnt hurt any individual?

 

[O-H Anglophile]

All of you democracy, equality determined types have to understand that it is NOT demanded of anyone. It is personal choice.

And who are we to decide that someone shouldnt do what they wish, whixh doesnt hurt any individual?

I agree, I don't think US residents/citizens have any right to criticize a custom that is a mark of respect, especially since it is not required.

It is really no different than a soldier saluting an officer, other than that IS required. You are saluting the rank, not the man/woman.

 

[XeniaCasaraghi]

IMO a salute is a sign of respect from one soldier to another, soldiers are people who have actually accomplished something more than just being born. If Americans don't have a right to their opinion then I guess this should just be a EU board or an EU only thread.
I will say I will not state that curtseying is stupid and will try to refrain from criticizing the custom in a condescending way.