Bowing and Curtseying


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Yesterday I saw a video of the wedding of HGD Guillaume with Stéphanie de Lannoy. And I noticed this strange thing. For each Royal or Princely couple arriving they were stopping in front of the flag / military Corp, and bowing, both gentlemen and ladies. CP WA and Maxima both bowed, CP Frederick and Mary both Bowed. Even Princess Caroline of Hanovver arriving alone, she stopped, turned in front of the military Corp and bowed the head.
Only exceptions: Princess Lala Salma of Marrocco, she did not stop at all.
Also CP couple of Norway, Haakon bowed and MM CURTSEYED.
Same for royal couple of Bulgaria. King Simeon bowed, but Queen Margarita CURTSEYED. Does anyone know the reason of these 3 protocol exceptions?
 
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fandesacs2003 said:
Yesterday I saw a video of the wedding of HGD Guillaume with Stéphanie de Lannoy. And I noticed this strange thing. For each Royal or Princely couple arriving they were stopping in front of the flag / military Corp, and bowing, both gentlemen and ladies. CP WA and Maxima both bowed, CP Frederick and Mary both Bowed. Even Princess Caroline of Hanovver arriving alone, she stopped, turned in front of the military Corp and bowed the head.
Only exceptions: Princess Lala Salma of Marrocco, she did not stop at all.
Also CP couple of Norway, Haakon bowed and MM CURTSEYED.
Same for royal couple of Bulgaria. King Simeon bowed, but Queen Margarita CURTSEYED. Does anyone know the reason of these 3 protocol exceptions?
Click to expand...

That is normal protocol in some countries, greeting the regimental standard of the Guard of Honour presenting it to them. For the own Sovereign the standard is lowered: http://www.algemenewaterschapspartij.nl/uploads/glazen-koets-buiging-vaandel-binnenhof.jpg

For not the Sovereign, the standard is not lowered: http://www.adelinnederland.nl/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/Zuylen-6.jpg

The curtsey by Mette-Marit and Margarita is gracious and an option. Lalla Salma probably simply forgot to greet the regimental standard.
 
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Thanks a lot @Duc_et_Pair.
I just thought that maybe the Morocco protocol does not prevail for a non accompagned woman to bow in front of a military Corp.
 
Mette marit is too fond of bending her knees. She curtseyed to Camilla, Obama and probably to you and me.. The standard protocol for flag at guard of honour is salute if wearing headdress uniform, otherwise bow. Unisex..
 
I wonder do royals from the middle east bow or curtsy to European royals ?
and vise versa?
 
vkrish said:
Mette marit is too fond of bending her knees. She curtseyed to Camilla, Obama and probably to you and me.. The standard protocol for flag at guard of honour is salute if wearing headdress uniform, otherwise bow. Unisex..
Click to expand...
I had exactly the same thought when I saw her. She is fond of curtsey and despite than she is not my cup of tea, I should accept that she does it very graciously.
But when I saw QMargarita doing the same, I thought it might be a reason.
 
I remember them all stopping at that standard and paying their respects while watching the wedding.

I think its a wonderful gesture on the part of foreign dignitaries and heads of state and royalty to stop and acknowledge the significance of the country that they're visiting. It puts the wedding into a perspective that this was not only the wedding of Guillaume and Stephanie but first and foremost before any ceremony, they acknowledged that they were at the wedding of Guillaume and Stephanie of Luxembourg.
 
Osipi said:
I remember them all stopping at that standard and paying their respects while watching the wedding.

I think its a wonderful gesture on the part of foreign dignitaries and heads of state and royalty to stop and acknowledge the significance of the country that they're visiting. It puts the wedding into a perspective that this was not only the wedding of Guillaume and Stephanie but first and foremost before any ceremony, they acknowledged that they were at the wedding of Guillaume and Stephanie of Luxembourg.
Click to expand...

With a little correction: not the national flag was greeted but the regimental standard: "Chef de détachement Major Peter Bodé, three chefs de peloton, nine chefs de section (non-commissioned officers) and 63 soldiers formed the détachement d'honneur in front of the cathedral. First lieutenant Yves Van Camp bore the regimental standard and was escorted by two non-commissioned officers and three soldiers."

Luxembourg

Netherlands (QB is excited after adding a cravate to the standard)

United Kingdom
 
Thank you for the correction Duc_et_Pair.

(checking off my "learn something new every day" box.) :D
 
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It does seems like it, with the legs bend like that. Perhaps it is wishful thinking, but certainly at first glance it looks that way. ?
 
I read somewhere that when Kate is with William, almost everyone bows to her, yes. When she is alone, she has to bow to them, yes. My confusion was the part that Harry has to bow to her regardless. That doesn't seem right. With a William, yes, without, no.
 
People confuse precedence with bowing when they are two separate things.

Kate would bow to The Queen and maybe Philip as her consort. Other than that she wouldn't bow to anyone.

As for precedence - public precedence is different to private precedence.

Publicly she takes her precedence as the wife of the Queen's grandson - which technically is behind all of HM's children and ahead of all of her other grandchildren. In practice she takes precedence publicly as the third lady in the land and enters and exits places accordingly.

In private e.g. when the family is together then the precedence is different with born princesses taking precedence over married-in princesses. This in effect means that if Beatrice and Kate arrive at a door at the same time Beatrice enters first. If Kate arrives as that door with William as well as Beatrice then Beatrice enters after William and Kate.

Until 2005 private and public precedence was the same but after Camilla married Charles the Queen changed the rules (allegedly because Anne was refusing to accept that in private she should be behind Camilla). That was extended in 2011 to include Kate of course.

All precedence means is the order of entering and exiting places and where people sit. It has nothing to do with bowing or curtseying - although many people seem to confuse the two things and think that they are the same thing.

We have seen events when Charles and Camilla arrive somewhere separately to William and Kate and not seen them curtsey or bow and yet if precedence = bowing then we should. What we do see in that circumstance is that they enter in the correct order - order of importance.

We don't see Beatrice and Eugenie curtsey to Camilla or vice versa - because they are all princesses. What we do see is Beatrice and Eugenie give Camilla the correct precedence in public but behind closed doors when only women are present (not necessarily Charles - any man in the family) then Camilla takes precedence.

Returning to my scenario with Beatrice and Kate arriving at a door at the same time at say Sandringham - if they know that Philip, Charles, Edward or any male in inside the room then Kate enters first as they then take their precedence based on the males as well.
 
Iluvbertie said:
Until 2005 private and public precedence was the same but after Camilla married Charles the Queen changed the rules (allegedly because Anne was refusing to accept that in private she should be behind Camilla). That was extended in 2011 to include Kate of course.
Click to expand...

Eeek! :sad: Yet Anne accepted to be behind Diana? What is that about?

BTW my family would never survive all of that you said. ;) Nope, can't even imagine it. Courtesy is one thing, letting gramma go first, etc., but all the in-laws stuff. Lordy! Think about it, how would your family fare under such protocols?
 
Iluvbertie said:
People confuse precedence with bowing when they are two separate things.

Kate would bow to The Queen and maybe Philip as her consort. Other than that she wouldn't bow to anyone.

As for precedence - public precedence is different to private precedence.

Publicly she takes her precedence as the wife of the Queen's grandson - which technically is behind all of HM's children and ahead of all of her other grandchildren. In practice she takes precedence publicly as the third lady in the land and enters and exits places accordingly.

In private e.g. when the family is together then the precedence is different with born princesses taking precedence over married-in princesses. This in effect means that if Beatrice and Kate arrive at a door at the same time Beatrice enters first. If Kate arrives as that door with William as well as Beatrice then Beatrice enters after William and Kate.

Until 2005 private and public precedence was the same but after Camilla married Charles the Queen changed the rules (allegedly because Anne was refusing to accept that in private she should be behind Camilla). That was extended in 2011 to include Kate of course.

All precedence means is the order of entering and exiting places and where people sit. It has nothing to do with bowing or curtseying - although many people seem to confuse the two things and think that they are the same thing.

We have seen events when Charles and Camilla arrive somewhere separately to William and Kate and not seen them curtsey or bow and yet if precedence = bowing then we should. What we do see in that circumstance is that they enter in the correct order - order of importance.

We don't see Beatrice and Eugenie curtsey to Camilla or vice versa - because they are all princesses. What we do see is Beatrice and Eugenie give Camilla the correct precedence in public but behind closed doors when only women are present (not necessarily Charles - any man in the family) then Camilla takes precedence.

Returning to my scenario with Beatrice and Kate arriving at a door at the same time at say Sandringham - if they know that Philip, Charles, Edward or any male in inside the room then Kate enters first as they then take their precedence based on the males as well.
Click to expand...


Oh, that Anne, having the attitude that "I don't want to curtsy to my older brother's wife". She didn't get along with Diana either, so why didn't they change the private precedence in 1981?


Sent from my iPod touch using The Royals Community
 
Iluvbertie said:
Until 2005 private and public precedence was the same but after Camilla married Charles the Queen changed the rules (allegedly because Anne was refusing to accept that in private she should be behind Camilla). That was extended in 2011 to include Kate of course.
Click to expand...
1. Do I believe in it? No.

2. Why not? Because it was the British press who said it.
 
Right, lets get back on topic please. This thread is about Bowing and Curtseying not about the order of precedence.
 
You can't really see the York girls on the video because of the angle. There is clear footage of the Wessexes on the right hand side of the door but Peter and Autumn block the view. You only see Kate's hat bob up and down.
 
Lovely pic of Kate curtseying and smiling at the Queen.


LaRae
 
I wonder how young the Royals are when they learn to bow/curtsy? Does Charlotte already know how?


Sent from my iPod touch using The Royals Community
 
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Skippyboo said:
You can't really see the York girls on the video because of the angle. There is clear footage of the Wessexes on the right hand side of the door but Peter and Autumn block the view. You only see Kate's hat bob up and down.
Click to expand...
There are photos in the DM and it appears that neither Beatrice nor Eugenie curtsey as I would expect them to be on the way up as Catherine is at full bend. They stand quite straight smiling at the Queen.
While we saw the Wessex family pay their respects, it is impossible to see if Andrew, Anne, Tim, Peter and Autumn pay their respects or not.

Regardless, everybody seems in really good spirits!
 
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