Birth of Lilibet “Lili” Diana Mountbatten-Windsor: June 4, 2021

[Archduchess Zelia]

If they had named her Elizabeth Diana, they would've been accused of copying Charlotte's middle names. If they had named her Lili Diana and said Lili was in honour of QEII, they would've been accused of trying to force a connection to the BRF. If they had given her some random name, people would've repeated their mantra from before she was born: That they're not close enough to any family member at this point to give her a family name.

They can't win.

 

[_Heather_]

Truthfully, I fully expect to see a whine on their behalf in the next day or two from Scobie or Gayle or Oprah or maybe all three, that they really don't understand why people are talking about this, etc. even though the choice of name combined with the press release mimicking those issued by the palace and complete with royal monogram was designed to do exactly that. I anticipate the tidbits from this week to be very much like those of the "they're baffled that people are talking about the racism accusation" variety that we saw after the interview.

 

[Heavs]

If they had named her Elizabeth Diana, they would've been accused of copying Charlotte's middle names. If they had named her Lili Diana and said Lili was in honour of QEII, they would've been accused of trying to force a connection to the BRF. If they had given her some random name, people would've repeated their mantra from before she was born: That they're not close enough to any family member at this point to give her a family name.

They can't win.

I do think if they had named her Elizabeth Diana "known as Lily" there would have been accusations of copying Charlotte's names. But there's no reason they couldn't have just done straight up Lily "to honor the Queen".

They could also "win" if they used Betsy, Eliza, Isabel, Elspeth etc.

Lilibet is striking such a cord with some people (obviously including me) because it's a) HM's personal, private nickname, b) at most HM was "told not asked" *at most* and C) because they've spent the last few months trashing everything she holds dear and accusing the family/firm of everything under the sun it's entirely self serving to claim they're "honouring" her and really love her.

 

[ACO]

Harry and Meghan named their daughter Lilibet Diana. People can be mad to the moon and back but it is not changing anything. We have no idea how anyone felt. I mean now there are reports they family knew and HMQ was made aware/asked or whatever in advanced? True? Who knows. No one will.

 

[Prinsara]

It would also all appear a little more consistent and less hypocritical had they given Archie any name with any royal or familial connections, while they were a part of the family, rather than conspicuously quit/trash and then decide to give their daughter the most 'tied to the head', OTT name imaginable.

 

[Anna1519]

[...]In any case, she is healthy and surrounded by love. Her name is her name and we will never know how Harry's extended family feels about it. I hope the Sussexes feel comfortable sharing a picture one day - it would be lovely to see a family photo.

 

[stunking]

Agreed

Thanks! Just a minor correction: "Lord Archie" is the courtesy title of a younger son of a duke. (Had Prince Harry been granted a dukedom without additional subsidiary titles, tradition would be to call his eldest son Lord Mountbatten-Windsor, not Lord Archie Mountbatten-Windsor.)

In a legal document, the heir apparent of a Duke who used his father's earldom as a courtesy title would be called

Archie Harrison Mountbatten-Windsor commonly called Earl of Dumbarton​

A legitimate daughter of a Duke who used the conventional courtesy title of Lady would be called in legal documents

Lilibet Diana Mountbatten-Windsor commonly called Lady Lili Mountbatten-Windsor​

See Debrett's Essential Guide to the Peerage.

However, because the Sussexes chose for their children not to use courtesy titles, they would simply be called Archie Harrison Mountbatten-Windsor and Lilibet Diana Mountbatten-Windsor in legal documents. This is how Archie was called in his British birth certificate.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...icate-reveals-Meghan-gave-birth-Portland.html

Well. I'm happy to hear that the baby arrived healthy and safely.

As for her name, well, what more would anyone expect. While I think we all expected her middle name to be Diana and rightly so, that first name is really something. I do think Lily would have been a nice choice. Still a tribute to HM if they really wanted to go there and sounds fabulous with Archie. However, using Lilibet is really a step too far. This was a private family nickname and while we've known for years that it was, indeed, HM's nickname, it was held for private use only by her absolute nearest and dearest. The use of it here feels intrusive and awkward, like we've stumbled into a private conversation not meant for our ears. And for the record, I would feel that way if any of HM's grandchildren used the name, not just these two. And that's to say nothing of the fact that it feels very contrived, calculated, disingenuous, and insincere. To have conscripted such a private and intimate thing for public consumption just feels...wrong. It would feel wrong no matter who chose to do it but in this case, from these two, it absolutely feels like the worst kind of PR stunt. I do wonder how it all went down behind palace walls.

Considering that the congratulations posts from the family felt a bit cool and reserved I'd wonder if it might not be going over terribly well. Or maybe that was just the fact that the two people who have gone out of their way to bash the monarchy and the entire family felt the need to conscript an intimate family nickname and then release the information on an official press release with a royal monogram at the top.

My mother was a school teacher was a school teacher for thirty years and she said stick with normal names and normal spellings or your child will pay for it a t school with mispronunciations and misspellings (Lili). Your child being made fun of and constantly have their name misspelled or said wrong.
So with the the latest PR stunt not taking into their sweet baby girl or the Queen in mind they have again showed themselves as self seeking, inconsiderate of others and clueless.

 

[carlota]

i've always preferred not using nicknames as first names and to stick to the 'real' name instead, then use the nickname if you want to (i.e. charles, not charlie). so i am not super keen on Lilibet as a first name, but lily is a lovely name (even if i prefer it spelt lily). diana was expected. i am surprised they didn't include a third name to honour the other grandmother, doria, who is the only person they seem close to these days.

 

[Heavs]

In any case, she is healthy and surrounded by love. Her name is her name and we will never know how Harry's extended family feels about it. I hope the Sussexes feel comfortable sharing a picture one day - it would be lovely to see a family photo.

[...]I'm absolutely sure we will have some sort of picture of her at some point and probably regular updates on her milestones like we did with Archie.

 

[Somebody]

i've always preferred not using nicknames as first names and to stick to the 'real' name instead, then use the nickname if you want to (i.e. charles, not charlie). so i am not super keen on Lilibet as a first name, but lily is a lovely name (even if i prefer it spelt lily). diana was expected. i am surprised they didn't include a third name to honour the other grandmother, doria, who is the only person they seem close to these days.

In this case they make it even more interesting: they picked someone's nickname and made that their daughter's official name - while also deciding they didn't like the nickname enough for it to be used in her daily life, so announced that she would be called 'Lili' instead.

 

[Denville]

I had the impression that Harry's grievances were with Charles and William. Not the entire family.

That's why he said that Charles had had bad parenting and that that made it difficult for him to be a good parent? Who were Charles' parents? Philip and the queen. Who was the member of the family who made racist remarks? Harry does not tell us so it could be anybody. He siad that NOONE in the family cared about helping Meghan. So I think he pretty much attacked the whole family and institution....

 

[Sandy345]

In this case they make it even more interesting: they picked someone's nickname and made that their daughter's official name - while also deciding they didn't like the nickname enough for it to be used in her daily life, so announced that she would be called 'Lili' instead.

It seems "trendy" to use nicknames as names in some circles. Like calling a girl Frankie instead of Frances as the given name. Probably she will be known as Lili at any rate.

 

[Princess_Eleanor]

As I've said, I think for Lilibet Diana it's a beautiful name and when she is old enough to understand the meaning of her name, I hope it will be very meaningful and special to her. And Queen Elizabeth II is certainly not a bad person to be associated with for life. That truly is an honour.

Yes, with Elizabeth Diana, Lili Diana or some other name, there might also be people who would criticize it, but that doesn't just concern the Sussexes. I remember comments from people who don't like the names Estelle, Athena, Julian, Savannah, Eugenie etc. In fact, for every name you could probably find people who don't like it, names are always a question of taste after all. I don't see the need to cast the Sussexes as victims because of that.

It is Harry & Meghan who constantly seek fame & attention, and court controversy. Publicity stunts all over the place, and a significant lack of respect towards Lilibet Diana's great grandmother. I doubt most people would see the choice of name as anything but nice & lovely if they were showing respect and love towards the Queen on a regular basis. And had not caused her a significant amount of hurt when her husband was nearing the end of his life and as she was grieving him!

 

[Denville]

It seems "trendy" to use nicknames as names in some circles. Like calling a girl Frankie instead of Frances as the given name. Probably she will be known as Lili at any rate.

Since that seems to be what they've said, yes I imagine she'll be called Lili...

 

[Sandy345]

Her parents gave her the name and I doubt she will be known as Lilibet but Lili, which is a cute name. This is the name she got and I think she probably will be an adorable child. I hope she has a happy life and a great future.

 

[victor1319]

In this case they make it even more interesting: they picked someone's nickname and made that their daughter's official name - while also deciding they didn't like the nickname enough for it to be used in her daily life, so announced that she would be called 'Lili' instead.

Does this mean, Lili is not one of the baby's names and this Lili has no meaning at all, if her classmates of the future give her a different nickname?

I seriously don't get this Lili thingy. Never before I've heard about a nickname in a birth cerificate - Is this possible to have one entered at all?

 

[Tatiana Maria]

Both children have double citizenship, don't they?

Yes, see these links for details.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publi...-outside-of-the-uk-and-qualifying-territories
https://travel.state.gov/content/tr...isition-US-Citizenship-Child-Born-Abroad.html

Regarding the messages of congratulations from the palaces: Though I do not follow the British monarchy on social media, I am fairly sure they have no consistent phrasing for birth announcements. I recall discussions here and elsewhere on major differences between birth announcements for recent births in the British royal family, such as which of the family members are named in the announcements. Most recently, Princess Beatrice's pregnancy was not even given a formal announcement on the website, even though her sister's was.

The birth announcement is clear that the parents will call their daughter Lili. Buckingham Palace, on the other hand, uses legal names as a general rule even for individuals commonly known by a nickname (e.g., Michael Tindall for Mike Tindall). In the circumstances, I would say that use of Lilibet (granting her the same treatment as other family members whose legal name differs from their nickname) by the Queen's office and use of Lili (following the parents' own example) by the Cambridges' office are both acceptable. The Cambridges' social media being more informal does not surprise me - they have been criticized by traditionalists on social media for sometimes referring to the Duke of Cambridge as Prince William.

 

[Somebody]

Does this mean, Lili is not one of the baby's names and this Lili has no meaning at all, if her classmates of the future give her a different nickname?

I seriously don't get this Lili thingy. Never before I've heard about a nickname in a birth cerificate - Is this possible to have one entered at all?

Lili is the baby's name in that she will be called Lili (see for example the Duke and Duchess of Cambridge's tweet) - it is not one of her two legal names. It is very similar to Harry himself, who doesn't have 'Harry' (but Henry) on his birth certificate but still has been 'Harry' from birth. Whether her classmates will use something differently is up to them, but she is Lili to herself, her brother, parents etc.

To me this is completely normal as many people that I know (including my father, brother, sister, husband to name a few; but also the next generation with two of my nieces and some children of close friends) use the name that was announced at birth while not being one of their official names - but derived from/related to their first name or a combination of first and middle name. In those cases it is not on the birth certificate but it is on the birth announcement - as it was in the case of Lili.

In the Netherlands we distinguish between a 'call name' (roepnaam; the one that your parents announced at birth and is in used daily life, including schools etc. - it could be either the same or different than your legal name) and a nickname (bijnaam; that could be given by anyone and only has meaning for those who came up with that nickname or started to use it following the example of others). From that perspective, Lili is her call name, not her nickname. If her friends would start calling her 'Lil' or 'Libby' that would be her nickname.

So, in case of Lili's family:

Meghan:
Legal names: Rachel Meghan
Call name: Meghan
Nickname(s): Meg?

Harry:
Legal names: Henry Charles Albert David
Call name: Harry
Nicknames: Haz / H

Archie:
Legal names: Archie Harrison
Call name: Archie
Nickname(s): unknown

Lili:
Legal names: Lilibet Diana
Call name: Lili
Nickname(s): none (yet)/unknown

 

[Alison H]

They won't be putting "Lili" on the birth certificate. It's a bit confusing that the announcement said "Lilibet "Lili" Diana", but that was just to show that she'd be known as Lili. Harry's birth certificate says Henry Charles Albert David, but he's only ever been "Harry". That's nothing unusual. When I was at school, there were loads of Kates, Debbies, Mandys, Daves, Andys, Mikes, etc, whose birth certificates said Katherine, Debra, Amanda, David, Andrew or Michael but who'd never been known by the full versions.


It does seem to be a trend now to use a nickname/short name as the official name, e.g. Teddy rather than Edward or Beth rather than Elizabeth. I'm not a great fan of that idea, but each to their own.


Fairly random point , but the last two or three generations of royals have been unusually nickname/abbreviation-free. If you go back to the early 20th century, you can get extremely confused as you read about Ducky, Sunny, Moretta, Sandro, Greek Georgie, Lenchen, Ena, etc etc etc!

 

[Archduchess Zelia]

Lilibet is striking such a cord with some people (obviously including me) because it's a) HM's personal, private nickname, b) at most HM was "told not asked" *at most* and C) because they've spent the last few months trashing everything she holds dear and accusing the family/firm of everything under the sun it's entirely self serving to claim they're "honouring" her and really love her.

A. It's a nickname. One used by family and friends. And Lili is her great-granddaughter. How on earth do you problematise that?

B. That's your assumption. And even if that was the case, what makes you think QEII would disapprove?

C. Not really. In spite of everything they've said, they've always maintained that QEII (and Philip) was pretty much the only relative that kept in contact with them and they've both always been clear that QEII has been very supportive of Meghan. Also considering the gravity of some of the issues H&M have brought up, "trashing everything [QEII] holds dear" isn't really the comeback lots of people seem to think it is these days.

 

[Denville]

They won't be putting "Lili" on the birth certificate. It's a bit confusing that the announcement said "Lilibet "Lili" Diana", but that was just to show that she'd be known as Lili. Harry's birth certificate says Henry Charles Albert David, but he's only ever been "Harry". That's nothing unusual. When I was at school, there were loads of Kates, Debbies, Mandys, Daves, Andys, Mikes, etc, whose birth certificates said Katherine, Debra, Amanda, David, Andrew or Michael but who'd never been known by the full versions.


It does seem to be a trend now to use a nickname/short name as the official name, e.g. Teddy rather than Edward or Beth rather than Elizabeth. I'm not a great fan of that idea, but each to their own.


Fairly random point , but the last two or three generations of royals have been unusually nickname/abbreviation-free. If you go back to the early 20th century, you can get extremely confused as you read about Ducky, Sunny, Moretta, Sandro, Greek Georgie, Lenchen, Ena, etc etc etc!

That was because they used a lot of the same name.. so there had to be nicknames and abbreviations to distinguish them.. Ena was actually Victoria Eugenie's fourth name and the one she was called by. Just as Edward VIII was known by his last name David. They dont do it now.. Elizabeth was alwasy given as a second name to honour the queen -not as the used name.

 

[Kataryn]

Lilibet Diana is actually a nice name. It is not very original though considering that, barring the nickname, they repeated the names of their niece (Charlotte Elizabeth Diana). That might reflect the Sussexes' insecurity and their inferiority complex in relation to the Cambridges. I am sorry to sat that, but it is what it looks like to me.

So okay, let's just consider they thought that Lili will be their last child. They want to honour Diana and the queen. What names could they have taken if they wanted to omit "Diana" and "Elizabeth"? Frances and hm.... already 8 other little (and bigger) girls in the family have "Elizabeth" as their name one way or the other... Let's just say that I have three cousins on one side and two on the other who share my grandmothers names with me. Original this is not but nice!

 

[Moran]

What I don't really get is announcing the Lili name officially. I get it that a shortened version is better in everyday life. In fact, the only people who call me by my actual first name are people I work with. Friends and family all have their own versions of the shortened name my parents use for me.

But they never introduced me as "Moran, we call her Mora" officially and this announcement was as official as they come. It feels like an uncomfortable look in their private life. I don't need to know how anyone is going to call their just born child. Especially a couple so intent on preserving its privacy. To me, it's inexplicable sharing of something intimate with the world.

 

[Somebody]

What I don't really get is announcing the Lili name officially. I get it that a shortened version is better in everyday life. In fact, the only people who call me by my actual first name are people I work with. Friends and family all have their own versions of the shortened name my parents use for me.

But they never introduced me as "Moran, we call her Mora" officially and this announcement was as official as they come. It feels like an uncomfortable look in their private life. I don't need to know how anyone is going to call their just born child. Especially a couple so intent on preserving its privacy. To me, it's inexplicable sharing of something intimate with the world.

Why shouldn't they announce how they want their child to be known? She is not supposed to be called Lilibet anywhere than in official documents (i.e., situations in which both her first and middle name will be used). She is to be Lili at school, at work, with friends and within the family. They might end up with a private nickname for her as well but that's something completely different.

So, I don't see how it is a private issue if the purpose of announcing it, is to make sure that everyone will use the correct name, which is Lili.

 

[Moran]

Why shouldn't they announce how they want their child to be known? She is not supposed to be called Lilibet anywhere than in official documents (i.e., situations in which both her first and middle name will be used). She is to be Lili at school, at work, with friends and within the family. They might end up with a private nickname for her as well but that's something completely different.

So, I don't see how it is a private issue if the purpose of announcing it, is to make sure that everyone will use the correct name, which is Lili.

Because we aren't going to know her personally. We aren't likely to attend her school and so on. And her name can be explained personally to the people who are actually going to socialize with her. Not the world who isn't likely to meet her in person.

In my culture, it isn't done. In yours, it is. I wonder about UK and US.

 

[Denville]

Why shouldn't they announce how they want their child to be known? She is not supposed to be called Lilibet anywhere than in official documents (i.e., situations in which both her first and middle name will be used). She is to be Lili at school, at work, with friends and within the family. They might end up with a private nickname for her as well but that's something completely different.

So, I don't see how it is a private issue if the purpose of announcing it, is to make sure that everyone will use the correct name, which is Lili.

The correct name is Lilibet, as they've named her that name.

 

[ACO]

What I don't really get is announcing the Lili name officially. I get it that a shortened version is better in everyday life. In fact, the only people who call me by my actual first name are people I work with. Friends and family all have their own versions of the shortened name my parents use for me.

But they never introduced me as "Moran, we call her Mora" officially and this announcement was as official as they come. It feels like an uncomfortable look in their private life. I don't need to know how anyone is going to call their just born child. Especially a couple so intent on preserving its privacy. To me, it's inexplicable sharing of something intimate with the world.

I don't see the issue. Why wouldn't they announce her name? Also announcing Lili will be what she is called? That is literally what Charles and Diana did with Harry. He wasn't introduced as Henry. They made it clear from day one that he was to be called Harry. I am sure it happened with Meghan too as she has never been called Rachel. The same is happening with Lili.

 

[Denville]

But Harry was a public figure. There were going to be stories about him in the paper, the RF would show him off at his christening and other things.. so since they wanted him to be called Harry rather than Henry, it made sense to say this when he was born and named. Lilibet is not a public figure.. Her pals at nursery and teacher will call her Lili, but that's something to tell them.. no real need to tell the whole world.

 

[Archduchess Zelia]

As is it right now, Lili will one day be a Princess of the United Kingdom so although she may not be a public figure right now, why wouldn't they tell the whole world how they want her addressed. It would look silly if that was to be announced later.

 

[Denville]

As is it right now, Lili will one day be a Princess of the United Kingdom so although she may not be a public figure right now, why wouldn't they tell the whole world how they want her addressed. It would look silly if that was to be announced later.

Since she is not even using the title she's entitled to, why will they wish for her to be a Princess? She's going to be living in the US, so its hardly of any use to her to be an English princess.