Auction of the Estate of the late Count and Countess of Paris, 2008 / 2015

[Odette]

How true. And the poor ex-wife, Marie-Therese Duchess of Menpensier, had to raise their kids herself - two of whom are mentally handicapped.

I was shocked when the old Compte made Michaella a Princess de Joinville. He always was a bit bitter and vindictive. Madame must have had a rough road with him. If she could only see her property up for sale I am sure she'd be very upset.

 

[maria-olivia]

And the first book Madame wrote was : "Tout m'est Bonheur"..
Was she really happy ?? She always had an unbelievable royal look ..and...

 

[Odette]

I believe she learnt early on to put up with the Conte and she was busy raising her family. She had given a lot of interviews and she mentioned that some thought she was an "airhead" or something to this effect. I believe she was a strong woman a true aristocrat. She had a lot of tragedies in her life and she persevered. If she could watch her stuff being auctioned off she would not be happy at all.

 

[pamk]

I was shocked when the old Compte made Michaella a Princess de Joinville. He always was a bit bitter and vindictive. Madame must have had a rough road with him. If she could only see her property up for sale I am sure she'd be very upset.

Michaella may have been made a Princess, but Marie Therese was made a Duchess, and I had always believed that the rank of a royal French Duchess trumped a French Princess.
It is funny how the press always refers to Henri, present Comte de Paris, as "The Comte de Paris and his wife." I have maybe seen just once where Michaella is referred to as the Comtesse de Paris.
Didn't Henri concoct a perfume line using the Orleans name in order to make some money?

 

[maria-olivia]

There was only one Comtesse de Paris and she died 5 years ago.
Michaella is just Princesse de Joinville.
Normely Comtess is less than Princess or Duchess , but la Comtesse de Paris is like in Spain the Countess de Barcelone .. Both deserve to be the heir's wife..

 

[Odette]

Michaella may have been made a Princess, but Marie Therese was made a Duchess, and I had always believed that the rank of a royal French Duchess trumped a French Princess.
It is funny how the press always refers to Henri, present Comte de Paris, as "The Comte de Paris and his wife." I have maybe seen just once where Michaella is referred to as the Comtesse de Paris.
Didn't Henri concoct a perfume line using the Orleans name in order to make some money?

Marie was of a Ducal House before she married Henri. The old Comte sided with her before he sided with Michaela. Then again he passed the son over for the grandson and then changed his mind again.......
It is funny but when they'd ask the old Comte what did his heir do with his time he was saying "he paints" I never warmed up to Michaela but the Orleans boys have strange tastes......
What sort of perfumes is he peddling??
Has anyone checked the Christie's catalogue??

 

[maria-olivia]

Twenty years ago Henri d'Orléans (son) was a painter and sold a perfume called Duc d' Orléans...
At this moment the Count of Paris ordered that only Jacques still remained Duc d' Orléans but his other 3 sons were not Orléans anymore.
Henri was Comte de Mortain ; Michel,Comte d'Evreux and Thibault,Comte de la Marche : the last two because of their non -accepted weddings.
He changed his mind for Henri , now Comte de Paris..
what a story ...

 

[vincent]

last orleans sale ? not sure

Just to make a few things clear :

The late comte de Paris did not dy broke;He left a fortune around 15 to 20 millions euros; Most of it has been divided among the 10 heirs, with, in plus around 2 millions euros left to the grandson the present duke of Vendôme.
Most of the 10 heirs got around 1,5 millions euros.
They kept the jewels which have been divided among them; Princess Claude for example got the diamond rivière (70 diamonds) and princess chnatal received a huge diamond brooch... and so on
The auction was dicided by them:
1) because they did receive items long time before, manly silver things and some paintings.
2)Because the collection was absolutely impossible to evaluate and therefor divide between the 10 heirs. Most of the objets have very low commercial value and a very high historical one;
3)Furthermore, many of the chiildren will be buyng things at the auction. They won't have to spend money because the amount of their purchase will be taken from their share of the global result of the auction;
as one of you said ,that auction is a wonderful opportunity for french museums to buy so many historical things, and they will; It is also a unique opportunity to view these objets for the first time; The four days of public visit have been a triumph for chritie's thousands of people have comme to see the collection.
Then, believe me or not, the best part is yet to be seen; the treasures which are worth many millions euros are still to be seen. Believe me.

 

[pamk]

When the Comte was still alive the couple wanted to sell some of their property and the children went to court to stop them. There was an interview with Madame who said that they would go to court and ask their children to provide them with an income so they could pay their bills. If one imagines what was inherited, given or squandered it is a sad state of affaires. The 9 children and the grandson who inherited the estate have already kept a lot of items and property. Out of the entire lot the one that makes me the saddest is the purse Marie Antoinette embroidered.
On another note Gerstende D'Orleans the daughter in law of Madame has gone to court to force her 3 brothers to sell the castle her family owned and lived in for centuries, so she could get her share. The castle has been sold sometime ago and apparently each heir got their share.
The French friends on this thread can help us with this. I believe France has a law that property deemed to belong to France's inheritance cannot leave the country. This is how the Louvre aquired the jewels. Is this still the law? I hope so. I would really loved to see the purse in the Louvre someday.

Or maybe the purse could be obtained by the Carnavalet Museum which
has items used by the royal family while imprisoned in the Temple - this would be the perfect place as it might get lost in the Louvre which has so much on display

 

[HRH Kerry]

Just to make a few things clear :

The late comte de Paris did not dy broke;He left a fortune around 15 to 20 millions euros; Most of it has been divided among the 10 heirs, with, in plus around 2 millions euros left to the grandson the present duke of Vendôme.
Most of the 10 heirs got around 1,5 millions euros.
They kept the jewels which have been divided among them; Princess Claude for example got the diamond rivière (70 diamonds) and princess chnatal received a huge diamond brooch... and so on
The auction was dicided by them:
1) because they did receive items long time before, manly silver things and some paintings.
2)Because the collection was absolutely impossible to evaluate and therefor divide between the 10 heirs. Most of the objets have very low commercial value and a very high historical one;
3)Furthermore, many of the chiildren will be buyng things at the auction. They won't have to spend money because the amount of their purchase will be taken from their share of the global result of the auction;
as one of you said ,that auction is a wonderful opportunity for french museums to buy so many historical things, and they will; It is also a unique opportunity to view these objets for the first time; The four days of public visit have been a triumph for chritie's thousands of people have comme to see the collection.
Then, believe me or not, the best part is yet to be seen; the treasures which are worth many millions euros are still to be seen. Believe me.

Some of your answers definitely shed light on many questions that have been asked especially why sell now. So it seems that some of these treasures will be kept in the family as well. Best is that France can retain some of the precious treasures for herself.

 

[maria-olivia]

I am following the auction .. the estimations for 1 item were f. ex. 200 and are sold more 2.000 euros because they belonged to royals.
I ordered something with my fax ... This will be for the late afternoon. When I see the prices going up .... I am not sure to have it.
I will tell you at the end of the day.

 

[Menarue]

I have my fingers crossed for you. Maria-Olivia. Whether you get it or not let us know and what it is....

 

[Carminha Stalker]

Princess Marie Therese, who was the first wife of Henri and had to bring up her children, two of whom are handicapped, is the sister of the Duke of Wurtemberg.
I still remember how the old Comte, kept rejecting his children, because of marriages, and then, at least in the case of Henri, changed his mind. What a bitter strange man he was. Madame was a true aristocrat.

 

[maria-olivia]

It is 1 p.m. I think they will make an half-time . I may tell you that the Countess's napkins are sold 12.000 euros but her small carpets 560 euros...

 

[Menarue]

In a photograph of the Comtesse de Paris there was an embroidered cushion on a chair behind her in her apartment. It had an embroidery that looked a an ermine with a crown round its neck. I have an old brooch made of a button with the same design and I would love to know what it signifies, I guess it is from a servant´s livery. If anyone can help me I could send a photo of it....
Has your lot come up yet maria-olivia?

 

[maria-olivia]

Menarue , My ot item 288 estimated 100 - 150 euros came up 3.500 euros !!!!
I am waiting for another item but all have no hope , all the items came up with one O more...

 

[pamk]

The auction houses always place such low estimates on items - it is frustrating!

 

[Menarue]

Menarue , My ot item 288 estimated 100 - 150 euros came up 3.500 euros !!!!
I am waiting for another item but all have no hope , all the items came up with one O more...

Bad luck Maria-Olivia, how frustrating. These things go for far more than they are worth.....
When the auction is over tell me more about what you bid on.....

 

[pamk]

Maria-Olivia -
Sometimes people buy these things and then the next day, they appear on EBAY -
Keep your spirits up - there are still a lot of items left -

 

[maria-olivia]

The Auction finished just now with the the souvenir belonging to Queen Marie Antoinette estimated 12.000 -15.000 euros and sold 97.700 euros..
With this low estimation of all her items it is like the Count and the Countess of Paris frustrated people for the last time.
But I saved money and learned how to manage with Christie's, but.....

 

[Menarue]

15,000 euros and raised 97,700 euros??? Was that the purse? What about the little portrait? How much did that get? I wonder where these things will end up.
Thanks for telling us about the auction.

 

[maria-olivia]

Yes Menarue,
5.000 euros expected for the purse raised 97.700 euros
the little portrait : estimation 6.000-8.000 euros raised 46.100 euros
Fragment of Marie Antoinette dress : estimation 5.000 euros raised 55.700 euros
That's the very end of the Auction.

 

[maria-olivia]

They sold also 15 little boxes estimation 600 euros and sold 2.000 euros.
On one silver box it was written : Elena and Jaime 18/3/1995 and on another one
MM = Michel of Greece and Marina Karella...

 

[pamk]

Watch EBAY --- some people might try to resell what they bought at auction and you may be able to make a good deal on something -

 

[Odette]

I wonder how many of these items were purchased by Madame's children.
I hope all items remain in France.
I went on Christie's website. The cushion you saw Menarue went for $3,071. Madame's portrait sold for $36,500 Marie Antoinette's pouch went for 97,700 euros,Louis XVi's tress from the time he was a baby went for $4265 and his razor/shaver he used while at Temple prison for 20,900 euros.
I was surprised at the list of items that were given for sale.

 

[Odette]

Watch EBAY --- some people might try to resell what they bought at auction and you may be able to make a good deal on something -

PamK looks to me like these were bought by antique dealers. I would be leery if anything showed up on Ebay.

 

[Menarue]

How sad, I have been going through the items and it is so sad, it is full of those little souvenirs that a mother puts aside, the baby sheets etc. Very very sad. I have been looking for my "cushion" but so far I haven´t found it but while looking it has made me feel rather depressed. The little box given by Infanta Elena and her husband, little treasures that have been in a drawer but loved.
The items brought much more than they were actually worth in money(although each item in itself for historical reasons is priceless) but the whole sum divided up by so many is not going to do much for the family....
It reminds me of what my father said to me once. I was given as a present a beautiful inlaid table that had been presented to a President of Portugal. The daughter gave it me and I love it. There was a time we were a little pressed for ready cash and someone offered me quite a lot of money for the table and I must say I was a little tempted. My father turned to me and asked "is that amount of money going to turn your life around? If not then keep it" I really don´t think I would have sold it but that just helped me make up my mind and it is still in the family thank goodness.

 

[maria-olivia]

Menarue ,
You are right , I followed the whole action from 11 a.m. until 10.30 p.m. because I had 4 items. I could'nt buy anything (one O more than the estimation).
Would you buy a silver match-box (XIX) 438 euros+ 30% taxes+ the travel to Paris ?
The total result is 2.383.050 euros and they are 10 heirs.

 

[Carminha Stalker]

What a heartache, to read about all those historical pieces full of a great emotional burden as well. Like in the case of objects Marie Antoinette embroidered etc... I hope with all my heart that whomever bought them will feel a great respect for those items.

 

[Menarue]

Carminha you hit on a word that is very apt "respect", let us hope they do respect them. I believe that one of Diana´s dresses was taken to pieces and each pearl from the embroidery sold separately......sad sad.