Archduke Carl-Christian, Pss Marie Astrid (née Luxembourg) and Family, 2003- 2021


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He looks like an insecure 15-year old.
 
Archduchess Adélaïde and her husband Archduke Christoph had their second daughter and second child Archduchess Sophia in August 2017.
Sophia is a sister for Katarina (* 22-12-2014)

Source: Nobiliana BAG 2017 en her FB
 
Could somebody please Post the Photo of Adelaide and the newborn?
It's on the "Bright and Beautiful" Website.
 
Archduke Imrie and his Archduchess certainly have beautiful children! ��
 
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What a surprise.

Both the birth as the engagement.

Congratulations to the parents and grand parents.

Prince Henri is the youngest child of prince Eric of Bourbon-Parma and his ex-wife Countess Lydia of Holstein-Ledreborg. Henri's paternal grandfather is Prince Michel, who is now married to Maria Pia of Italy.

Like Archduke Carl-Christian and Princess Marie-Astrid, the couple are second cousins. Prince Henri's maternal grandmother is Princess Marie Gabriele of Luxembourg, sister of Grand Duke Jean.
 
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indeed, rather unexpected, particularly for a catholic family. Gabriela is apparently only 23 too which is rather young for a royal mum.
in any case, congrats to the couple on the engagement and the baby! i wonder who they will choose as godparents. and what title will victoria get? archduchess?
 
I guess she will be Princess of Bourbon-Parma, like her father.
 
Congrats to the happy couple ! It is indeed quite a surprise and many of us didn't see that coming. However, I am glad they took their time to announce they are engaged instead of hurrying in a wedding before their daughter's birth. As for the godmother, as wee Victoria has Antonia in her names, we may think that her aunt Antonia has been choosen.
 
Woooooow!!!
I didn't even now she was engaged and pregnant!
As for the "non-traditional way of things" - well, her cousin, Prince Lous of Luxembourg paved the way.
 
Shouldn' t this be announced in the royal Engagement thread as well?:flowers:
 
That's quite a surprise! Well, two surprises...Congratulations to the happy couple!
 
Marengo said:
What a surprise.

Both the birth as the engagement.

Congratulations to the parents and grand parents.

Prince Henri is the youngest child of prince Eric of Bourbon-Parma and his ex-wife Countess Lydia of Holstein-Ledreborg. Henri's paternal grandfather is Prince Michel, who is now married to Maria Pia of Italy.

Like Archduke Carl-Christian and Princess Marie-Astrid, the couple are second cousins. Prince Henri's maternal grandmother is Princess Marie Gabriele of Luxembourg, sister of Grand Duke Jean.
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The numerous ways the couple is related to each other is very confusing and very prewar. The number of times a few branches of the Bourbon-Parma/Luxemburg/Habsburg/Holstein-Ledreborg houses have intermarried in the last few generations makes for a fascinating read. Add to that their shared descent from Christian IX & Louise of Denmark and the web is almost impossible to untangle.
 
Thank you Prisma for the link!
I' m sooo excited, I love
CC's and MA' s family
Hope they' ll have a great wedding next year with my favourite couple Imre and Kathleen and their children attending!
 
Didn't realize they were cousins, but congratulations to the couple and their families.
 
They are indeed related, several times.
The closest relation is that they are both great-grandchildren of Grand Duchess Charlotte and Prince Félix of Luxembourg.
Also, all four of their parents are great-grandchildren of Duke Roberto I of Parma.
And of course they are both descendants from King Christian IX of Denmark.
Under the genealogic point of view, that's a really interesting match.
 
French Toast said:
Didn't realize they were cousins, but congratulations to the couple and their families.
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They are not cousins but more distantly related:

Marie-Gabrielle Erzherzogin von Österreich-Lothringen (the bride)
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Marie-Astrid Erherzogin von Österreich-Lothringen née princesse de Luxembourg, princesse de Nassau, princesse de Bourbon de Parme (mother of the bride)
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Jean grand-duc de Luxembourg, prince de Nassau, prince de Bourbon de Parme (grandfather of the bride)
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Félix prince de Bourbon de Parme, created prince de Luxembourg (great-grandfather of the bride AND of the groom)
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Marie-Gabrielle grevinde Holstein til Ledreborg née princesse de Luxembourg, princesse de Nassau, princesse de Bourbon de Parme (grandmother of the groom)
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Lydia princesse de Bourbon de Parme née komtesse Holstein til Ledreborg (mother of the groom)
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Henri prince de Bourbon de Parme (the groom)
 
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Quite a surprise! And not the easiest start for the family as apparently the father is studying and living in Copenhagen (with his family) and mother and child live with her parents in Geneva.

As for titles, I assume that she has no title as her parents were not married at the time of her birth (and still not married). I don't expect the current head of the house of Bourbon-Parme to award the little baby girl a title. Not sure whether there are other ways for her to get her father's title (what is the practice/law (on aristocracy) in Denmark for cases in which parents get married at a later point in time)?
 
Now you mention that, handing out a title to a child born out of wedlock may be a tricky thing for the Duke of Parma, considering his own situation.
 
Well, I believe that in case the two situations will be considered as being quite different: Henri and Gabriella are engaged and one day will be married, so their daughter will be legitimized by their subsequent marriage; Duke Carlos instead isn't married to the mother of his son.
 
Somebody said:
Quite a surprise! And not the easiest start for the family as apparently the father is studying and living in Copenhagen (with his family) and mother and child live with her parents in Geneva.

As for titles, I assume that she has no title as her parents were not married at the time of her birth (and still not married). I don't expect the current head of the house of Bourbon-Parme to award the little baby girl a title. Not sure whether there are other ways for her to get her father's title (what is the practice/law (on aristocracy) in Denmark for cases in which parents get married at a later point in time)?
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Most European countries no longer know the concept of "illegitimate" children (born out of wedlock). In most European country it is enough when someone recognizes paternity.

In the case of Carlos Klynstra the Duke of Parma confirmed his paternity after the birth, be it without any legal parentship over Carlos Jr, but his son had the right to petition to be known with the surname and titles of his natural father.

Prince Henri has not detested pagernity over his daughter. He will marry his daughter's mother, the Archduchess. The youngborn girl is a princesse de Bourbon de Parme.
 
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Duc_et_Pair said:
Most European countries no longer know the concept of "illegitimate" children (born out of wedlock). In most European country it is enough when someone recognizes paternity.

In the case of Carlos Klynstra the Duke of Parma confirmed his paternity after the birth, be it without any legal parentship over Carlos Jr, but his son had the right to petition to be known with the surname and titles of his natural father.

Prince Henri has not detested pagernity over his daughter. He will marry his daughter's mother, the Archduchess. The youngborn girl is a princesse de Bourbon de Parme.
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Carlos contests his son's right to his titles with every possible move. Granting that title (if he is indeed the one who would need to grant it) would be very counterproductive for his case, even though the situations are indeed quite different.

I am not yet convinced that the little girl is a princess of Bourbon-Parma. Typically, princely/royal houses are a little stricter (for example, I don't believe anyone with an aristocratic mother can claim his or her mother's titles even though in many countries it is possible for children to carry their mother's surname; so yes, I guess she has the surname of 'Bourbon-Parma' (as her dad surely recognized her before or shortly after birth (not sure about the procedure in Switzerland) but I am not so sure about her being a royal highness and a princess.

Moreover, if she is not a HRH princess right now, the question would be whether it will change upon or after her parent's marriage.
 
I have actually no idea how these things work in practice.
Do the parents inform the head of the family about the birth of a child, and will the head of the family "grant" them a title? Or is it assumed the title will be granted when the child is born from an approved marriage? And when this is not the case, can the parents write a request for a title to the duke? Send an email? Or do they just start using it?
 
Marengo said:
I have actually no idea how these things work in practice.
Do the parents inform the head of the family about the birth of a child, and will the head of the family "grant" them a title? Or is it assumed the title will be granted when the child is born from an approved marriage? And when this is not the case, can the parents write a request for a title to the duke? Send an email? Or do they just start using it?
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Well according to Olga Romanoff there's a Romanov Messenger group so maybe it's all handled through Facebook these days...
 
Marengo said:
I have actually no idea how these things work in practice.
Do the parents inform the head of the family about the birth of a child, and will the head of the family "grant" them a title? Or is it assumed the title will be granted when the child is born from an approved marriage? And when this is not the case, can the parents write a request for a title to the duke? Send an email? Or do they just start using it?
Click to expand...

There is zero comma zero involvement of the Duke in this case, I think. Both the Kingdom of Denmark and the Kingdom of the Netherlands have a legally recognized system of nobility. The nobiliary titles are incorporated in the official administration. When Henri prince de Bourbon de Parme registers a newborn child as his daughter, she will have his surname and his title according the legal regulations.

In the case of Carlos Jr. the young boy was registered with the surname of his mother, Brigitte Klynstra. (In the Netherlands the parents have the option to choose a surname for the children). The children however have a right to petition the Minister of the Interior, to become known with the surname of the other parent.

Carlos Klynstra Jr. did petition this. The Court of Justice agreed with the Minister of the Interior that the son had the right to be known with his natural father's surname and title. His natural father (the Duke), who acknowledged paternity since birth anyway, had as argument that the titles Prince (Princess) de Bourbon de Parme indicate being part of the Royal House Bourbon-Parma.

He however never held paternal authority over his son. Carlos Jr was never raised up in his family or house. From his birth on it was agreed that there would be no legal paternity between Carlos and Carlos Jr. Because of that and because of historical and dynastical reasons he did object against Carlos Klynstra becoming a Prince de Bourbon de Parme.

The Court of Justice however agreed with the Minister of the Interior that Carlos Jr simply had the right to petition for his father's surname, as any other Dutch citizen. The fact that the father is head of a royal dynasty and that his surname and title are part of a Royal House does not change that, in the opinion of the Minister of the Interior, now backed by the Court of Justice.

The case is still under review because the Duke went into appeal against the ruling of the Court of Justice. But in this case, Prince Henri de Bourbon de Parme acknowledged his daughter ánd has paternal authority over her. He is intended to form a family with his daughter's mother, to marry her indeed. A total different situation.
 
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