"Adios Princesa" by David Rocasolano [Letizia's cousin] (2013)

[Kataryn]

Besides isn't the Catholic Church supposed to all about Christian charity and forgiveness, confess your sins, say a few Hail Marys and then be absolved of your sins and move on with your life?

You need only to confess major sins. But you can only confess if you really repent. The "punishment" is only to give you time to think about these sins again, why you committed them and why you wish to be absolved. Then you get the absolution.

If you are not rependant, then the absolution is void. It is a holy sacrament, not some lifestyle ritual to allow you to move on with your life as if nothing had happened.

 

[blauerengel]

Any sins that are committed are between you and god,not for the general public!
You can confess to a priest,but in Catholic faith true forgiveness is only if you regret your actions or sinful thinking-if you only confess but don´t feel bad for what you did and just go on to live like you did before...well,than you are only doing it for the appearance,but you can´t expect forgiveness.
Very true what you wrote,Kataryn!

 

[Binz]

You need only to confess major sins. But you can only confess if you really repent.

If you are not rependant, then the absolution is void. It is a holy sacrament, not some lifestyle ritual.

To me it is fine if nobody shall know it when there was an abortion. This is something everybody is responsible for himself. And there are good reason to have one.

Though this is not possible regarding the catholic church as the church has it's own laws like all other ones - like it or not. Thus serious catholics must follows this laws like they have to follow the laws of the state. No one pressures anyone into the catholic church anymore, everybody is free to leave.

What a lot people like to neclect is the fact an abortion means the catholic woman in question is excommunicated automatically. It doesn't matter if someone knows it or not.

As a result a valid religious catholic wedding is not possible without confessing the abortion. It is also not possibe e.g. to receive the communion.

I don't know if Letizia had an abortion or not. If she had one it's a complete mess and to think so has not much to do with beeing overly religious or not.

Without confessing and the absolution for the abortion the religious wedding is not valid and this would be a disaster. The church wedding would have made a total mockery of the church, the priest who conducted the wedding and a lot of people who still are believers. No matter if they know it or not. After all for the catholic church marriage is a sacrament as well. And with confessing a lot catholic woman would ask themself world wide why it was so easy for Letizia to get the absolution and they struggle.

So if one wants a very much public religious catholic wedding make sure you are fit for it. If you cannot, let it be and take responsibility for your own past decissions. To me this is valid for breaking the laws of the state and also for breaking the laws of the church.

Again I don't know if Letizia had an abortion or not. As she is not my crown princess I don't care.

 

[fandesacs2003]

Maybe she confessed to the priest, but there is the secret of confesslon, so the priest can'do anything. So all ok.
I do not imagine if the priest who receives the confession has the authority not to forgive and fordid the wedding. It sounds incredible.

 

[Binz]

Maybe she confessed to the priest, but there is the secret of confesslon, so the priest can'do anything. So all ok.
I do not imagine if the priest who receives the confession has the authority not to forgive and fordid the wedding. It sounds incredible.

Usual to cancel the excommunication is done by a bishop. The bishop in this fictitious case is of the kind who thinks abortion is as bad as the Nazi Genozide.

Currently nobody knows if there was an abortion or not. I even don't know if Letizia was still a member of the catholic church at the alledged time. This would also change the perspectives. Thus everything is speculation and to me it ends here.

 

[ANNIE_S]

Usual to cancel the excommunication is done by a bishop. The bishop in this fictitious case is of the kind who thinks abortion is as bad as the Nazi Genozide.

The bishop in this concrete case is of the kind that talks aloud about "children´s killing" (meaning abortions) and then close his eyes to the sins of the powerful people next to him. If Letizia ever confessed to him having had an abortion, I don´t have the slightest doubt that she was forgivened. After all, that´s the bishop/priests duty, forgiving people no matter how awful their sins are and not judging them.

I don´t think either that she ever left the Catholic Church. For that, an apostasy is needed. If she did that (a long, complex process which usually need a judicial resolution), I guess we woukd know it by now. It seems easier to discover than a secret abortion.

I think single Letizia was exactly like most of young Spaniards are: baptized and so member of the CC, but not a practicant or even an atheist.

 

[Alondra]

"I am wondering why we are discussing this as if all that mr Rocasolano wrote is the truth? For all we know he/the publisher might have spiced the story up a few notches to sell more books/make more money, as is usually the case with these kinds of books."

Considering Mr Rocasolano has had a few dealings with corruption, and would likely be disbarred if a person or company makes a complaint for unprofessional conduct, believing what he says as truth is likely to believing pigs do fly.

Marengo, what is interesting about your post is the question many people in Spain, including some serious journalists are asking ...who is really behind this book?

The book itself appears to have become a pariah even with extreme right movements. In Spain it's the the extreme right that's usually behind the most ferocious attacks against Letizia. They have never forgiven her for being working class, intellectual, self made and progressive. She IS EVERYTHING they didn't want as a queen of Spain.

Still, Interconomia (a website where the KKK or the Hitler's Youth would be considered liberals) has come to her defence, and so has COPE, a private, right wing, commercial, Spanish radio network owned by a series of institutions within the Spanish Catholic Church. Something is up. The attack against her has been too brutal, and although Casa Real has stated it won't be taking Mr Rocasolano to court, as per normal agenda in the SRF, this book, and what's behind it,,has the potential to explode on "someone/s or organisation's hands".

For those who still think of Spain as a deeply catholic country, let me say a few REAL facts,

- Spain was the fourth country to allow gay marriage with full rights of adoption to gay parents.

- Our divorce laws are some of the fastest and uncomplicated in the world.

- Abortion is legal during the first 14 weeks. This law was passed in 2010, however abortion was considered a medical procedure on a doctor's recommendation before then.

 

[ANNIE_S]

Perfect ... professional ... controlled ... my impression. I would pretty much see these adjectives as description for the same behaviour towards the public. Absolutely positive. However, every now and then a bit of emotion or imperfection makes one more human. That's a bit what I miss with her.

Back to the book. If - and that is a huge IF - there is indeed some truth in it, I wonder what the best strategy might be. Simply not commenting or finally an I-am-so-sorry-coming-out à la MM.

I think she doesn´t have to make a public apologize, as long as she hasn´t done anything illegal. Why should she apologize for something that happened before she got married and so before being Spain´s representative?

I´ve always thought that MM public apologize was humilliating. I would never have accept to do it, and I think no woman should be forced to apologize for something that isn´t anybody´s bussiness but hers (I don´t think a man should, either, but somehow that a man wouldn´t have had to do what MM did...)

 

[blauerengel]

To me it is fine if nobody shall know it when there was an abortion. This is something everybody is responsible for himself. And there are good reason to have one.

Again I don't know if Letizia had an abortion or not. As she is not my crown princess I don't care.

This is true, as I have written in previous posts:

A) We do not know the extent of truth of the book!
Personally,I am very doubftful and highly distrust this so-called "tell-all book"...but that´s just me,anyone can make up their own mind with the information available!

B)There are good reasons for abortion-if you are very sick,if you have a genetic disease,when you have a body that is not able to fully carry out a pregnancy which is sadly the case for many women who would love to have a baby but can´t have one. (Like Frida Kahlo-she had a terrible accident which made it impossible for her to have a child of her own,she had several miscarriages and suffered enormously from the physical+emotional pain)

Another reason for abortion is if the baby was conceived by rape,especially when it was done by a close family member which is unfortunately often the case in bad families with abusing men.In both cases I fully understand if the woman decides NOT to have that baby because it would remind her of the tragic event and if conceived by incest probably turn out unhealthy.

If the mother is taking drugs/alcoholic/too much cigarettes and tobacco-this can have such enormous effects on the foetus,that it really makes me sad everytime I see a poor child who is born a cripple because the mother did not look after her body & health. The woman should first try to get a healthy body & lifestyle and than she can have a baby.

These are some very important reasons why I believe that abortion should be allowed without punishment and harassment or "moral judgement" if they really need it.
Of course, as I have noted before-it is better to avoid it,but in some cases you are not in control of what is happening to you and I would always stand up & fight for the lady who has been raped/abused and does not want to carry out the baby,because I find it more important to save and protect the woman who is already in this world-who is alive and trying to manage her life - instead of protecting unborn lives that might not even be born healthy or have very little chances to survive.

C) Whatever happened before CP Letizia married - I am sure that she has confessed in church & regrets some parts of her past like we all do,nobody is perfect! As we see in her work & attitude-she is doing her best to be a dutiful princess,wife & mother of such lovely,adorable girls! This should be enough proof that she has a good character & a decent set of moral values & principles

 

[Alondra]

I think she doesn´t have to make a public apologize, as long as she hasn´t done anything illegal. Why should she apologize for something that happened before she got married and so before being Spain´s representative?

I´ve always thought that MM public apologize was humilliating. I would never have accept to do it, and I think no woman should be forced to apologize for something that isn´t anybody´s bussiness but hers (I don´t think a man should, either, but somehow that a man wouldn´t have had to do what MM did...)

I agree Annie. Letizia is doing what she has to do. Her job. She has a good role model in Queen Sofia. Focus on what's needs to be done, and soldier on head high.

Letizia has nothing to apologise for. She is doing a great job.

 

[ANNIE_S]

- Abortion is legal during the first 14 weeks. This law was passed in 2010, however abortion was considered a medical procedure on a doctor's recommendation before then.

And anybody who lived in Spain before 2010 knows as well that the situation was pretty much the same than now. If a woman wanted to have an abortion, she only had to look for a doctor who signed the medical consent so she could be taken into the third supossed considered for legal abortion: the risk for the mother´s mental health or something like that.

I applauded the reform of the law back them because, in fact, with the free abortion during the 14 weeks they only regulated a situation already existing: anybody could have an abortion during the first 14 weeks. Now, after the changes in the law, things are done more cleanly and openly and, more important, there are no longer the "bussiness" that some used to do with this subject.

I think this is a little bit too political for the forums, but I felt the neccessity of explain how abortion processes worked/work in Spain

 

[An Ard Ri]

How is the book going down in Spain?

 

[Alondra]

And anybody who lived in Spain before 2010 knows as well that the situation was pretty much the same than now. If a woman wanted to have an abortion, she only had to look for a doctor who signed the medical consent so she could be taken into the third supossed considered for legal abortion: the risk for the mother´s mental health or something like that.

I applauded the reform of the law back them because, in fact, with the free abortion during the 14 weeks they only regulated a situation already existing: anybody could have an abortion during the first 14 weeks. Now, after the changes in the law, things are done more cleanly and openly and, more important, there are no longer the "bussiness" that some used to do with this subject.

I think this is a little bit too political for the forums, but I felt the neccessity of explain how abortion processes worked/work in Spain

Totally agree Annie. An you're right. Unless you are a Spaniard few people can understand that there wasn't much of a realistic, pragmatic difference in abortion laws in Spain before and after 2010.

I'm sure mods are experienced enough to know the difference between using politics to belittle an opinion and giving a political framework to what's happening in Spain right now.

 

[Alondra]

How is the book going down in Spain?

The book is simply not going. You can buy it in Amazon but that's about it. Most book stores don't have it.

 

[An Ard Ri]

The book is simply not going. You can buy it in Amazon but that's about it. Most book stores don't have it.

Good it sounds llike something that should only be used to light a fire with!

 

[blauerengel]

The book is simply not going. You can buy it in Amazon but that's about it. Most book stores don't have it.

I am relieved & extremely happy to read that! Seems like the Spanish people know who to trust and don´t waste their money on such crappy books

Also,they don´t like to be fooled and distracted from the REAL problems that are so many now,not only the Urdangarin case & Juan Carlos affairs....the economic situation is much worse and needs to be improved as fast as possible.
I have heard that there are now so many young people with no jobs ( even those with good education!) and those who have a job often have to work for a very bad salary

 

[ANNIE_S]

How is the book going down in Spain?

Well, in Amazon.es it´s on the first place on the lists of best sellers.
Amazon.es Los más vendidos: Los productos más populares en Libros

But if we consider that book stores aren´t selling it, maybe those are the only ones buying it...
And well, not many people buy books nowadays, you have to take in account the Internet downloads (someone put a link on this same thread), so I think there are many people reading the book right now.

 

[Avicenna]

I think she doesn´t have to make a public apologize, as long as she hasn´t done anything illegal. Why should she apologize for something that happened before she got married and so before being Spain´s representative?

I´ve always thought that MM public apologize was humilliating. I would never have accept to do it, and I think no woman should be forced to apologize for something that isn´t anybody´s bussiness but hers (I don´t think a man should, either, but somehow that a man wouldn´t have had to do what MM did...)

Well, there is at least one historical example where a man had to do penance ... the so called Walk to Canossa - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Back in 1077 Henry IV thought the Holy Roman Empire was worth it to kneel in front of Pope Gregory and beg for forgiveness.

 

[Bine221]

Well, in Amazon.es it´s on the first place on the lists of best sellers.
Amazon.es Los más vendidos: Los productos más populares en Libros

But if we consider that book stores aren´t selling it, maybe those are the only ones buying it...
And well, not many people buy books nowadays, you have to take in account the Internet downloads (someone put a link on this same thread), so I think there are many people reading the book right now.

I really, really hope, that the book of this git will remain dusted in the shelfs.... I simply do not wish, that this snitch is becoming rich by betraying his own blood.
BYe Bine

 

[Duke of Marmalade]

I really, really hope, that the book of this git will remain dusted in the shelfs....

The book is now sold out at Amazon and at the editor's website (Foca). I guess the opposite is the case, because most 'serious' Spanish papers or bookshops did not cover/distribute the book, people got even more interested in it. Those who are insterested are from the online-generation anyway, don't necessarily go into bookstores to buy a book they want to read.

I think the publisher didn't expect so many people wanting to buy, as Cunill's or Morton's book weren't top sellers, but then, David Rocasolano is family and not some 2nd or 3rd source author.

 

[fandesacs2003]

If I understood well, at the time she did it (IF she did it) it was illegal. It is different to do something illegal, and different to do something against the Church, and for a future Queen the fîrst is much worst than the second, at least in my opinion.

 

[ANNIE_S]

If I understood well, at the time she did it (IF she did it) it was illegal. It is different to do something illegal, and different to do something against the Church, and for a future Queen the fîrst is much worst than the second, at least in my opinion.

There is no evidence that the supossed abortion was illegal. The fact that it was done before 2010 doesn´t mean it was illegal.
It´s what I tried to explain before: many, many women used to have abortions back then, just as they do nowadays. They only had to be taken in the third supossed to get a permission. And as I said, that wasn´t a very hard thing to achieve, since I know some cases...

 

[Duke of Marmalade]

It's likely that for the church it was illegal/violated canon law. It would have caused huge problems at the time in 2003 and the man in question, archbishop Varela, is totally anti-abortion (same goes for Queen Sofia as mentioned in her own biography).

Knowing about an alledged abortion would have put the church into an almost impossible position, let alone the Kings, I mean Eva Sannum wasnt good enough because she posed in underwear etc, Isabel Sartorius had to go because of flawed family members, one can only imagine what divorce & abortion would have meant.

 

[cepe]

Speculate, speculate, speculate.

We don't know if the accusation is true
If the accusation is true, we don't know the reason for it
It's private anyway
We don't know if the king knew or not
Felipe wanted to marry her regardless of any history
Letizia's and Felipe have a happy marriage
Royal duties are being carried out as required
David R is making a lot of money out of the book
David R, if what he has written is true, has broken a confidence

Has anyone commenting read the book?

 

[ladongas]

Speculate, speculate, speculate.

We don't know if the accusation is true
If the accusation is true, we don't know the reason for it
It's private anyway
We don't know if the king knew or not
Felipe wanted to marry her regardless of any history
Letizia's and Felipe have a happy marriage
Royal duties are being carried out as required
David R is making a lot of money out of the book
David R, if what he has written is true, has broken a confidence

Has anyone commenting read the book?

You are so right! It's no one's business but Letizia's, not really even Felipe's. Her 'cousin' just wanted to get the story out there? Why? There is no one who will benefit- not Spain, not the SRF, and certainly not Letizia's little girls. What a creep.

 

[nascarlucy]

Ths is exactly what the author of this book has wanted, to stir the pot and this is what has happened by the comments of this and other blogs and I imagine similiar comments elsewhere. Abortion is a issue that is emotional and it stirs the pot when discussed. Just the word does it without adding anything to it. That is all I will say about that.

IMO MM didn't owe anyone an apology for her past. Wasn't like she was hiding her past and then it was found out later (people knew her past). Neither does Letizia regardless of what she did or didn't do.

 

[Winnie]

You are so right! It's no one's business but Letizia's, not really even Felipe's. Her 'cousin' just wanted to get the story out there? Why? There is no one who will benefit- not Spain, not the SRF, and certainly not Letizia's little girls. What a creep.

Look, even if she did have a termination, it might have been perfectly legal. It could have been a health issue and seeing how her other pregnancies went [the ones made public since marriage] I wouldn't be at all surprised. It happens and on the official medical papers it still states abortion, believe me I know.

 

[nascarlucy]

My mother had a miscarriage back in the early 1950's. On the medical record it is often listed as spontaneous abortion which is a misnomer (word that doesn't fit). I was told by her doctor that this is a medical term for miscarriage but someone who doesn't know that would think otherwise.

 

[Osipi]

My mother had a miscarriage back in the early 1950's. On the medical record it is often listed as spontaneous abortion which is a misnomer (word that doesn't fit). I was told by her doctor that this is a medical term for miscarriage but someone who doesn't know that would think otherwise.

It was listed as "spontaneous abortion" when I miscarried in the early 70s too.

 

[RJC]

It was listed as "spontaneous abortion" when I miscarried in the early 70s too.

Likewise I miscarried in the 80s and had a nurse look at my file next hospital visit and say "you've had an abortion". I think it was because of the D&C required afterwards just to avoid risk of infection.