A potential bride for The Grand Duke Georgi


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^^^^^Which lady is she, the strapless or the one with the jacket?
Rebecca is the girl in the strapless dress. The one with the jacket is Micaela Di Gianlorenzo.

Just to give an idea what sort of a gathering it was, other guests included Princess Natalia Strozzi, Princess Federica de Gregorio Cattaneo di Sant Elia, Marchioness Paola Livia Carrelli Palombi di Montrone, Count Ettore de Cesbron de la Gennalais, and quite a few other nobles.
 
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What will poor momma say? Not of equal birth? Not Orthodox? What about rich?

Better have the smelling salts nearby and the doctor on call if he ever pops the question.
 
Georgi is adult and the right to make his own decisions.
 
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The lady in question seems lovely. Grand Duchess Maria Vladimirovna may be displeased with the choice, but any parent can do nothing about it. If Grand Duke Georgii proposes and she accepts the proposal, I wonder whether or not the couple is going to follow the tradition, i.e. renouncing the faith and changing name.
 
Thank You for information!
As I understand she's Italian.
Does she have any noble background?


I think she does, on her mother's side for sure. not sure about her father's side.

I found on the internet that she is part of ADSI (Associazione Dimore Storiche Italiane member of the Historic European Houses) apparently you need to be noble to be part of that association, that's why I think she is noble.

Moreover I found a document according to which she is not just member of ADSI but is also deleguée of the association for young people. Infact she seems to be the organizator of a big young noble reunion of ADSI held in Rome in 2008.

If you google Rebecca Bettarini ADSI you'll find the programme of the reunion which includes lunches and private visits to the most beautiful castles and palaces in Rome! The programme sais that visitors have been received by the owners of the palaces and castles (Prince Colonna, Princesse Odescalchi, Aldobrandini). Definitely not something a commoner could do! And who knows, maybe Grand Duke George was there as well....
 
I think you are right about her mother, but she doesn't have a noble ancestry on her father's side (at least, not in the last 2-3 generations).
In order to be a member of ADSI, you have to proven royal/noble/aristocratic ancestry, but not necessarily be one yourself.
 
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When you think about it, Grand Duchess Maria has no reason to be at all unhappy with her son's choice if he chooses to marry her. Maria can do what monarchs throughout the years have done to make potential commoner brides of equal status - before the wedding, the girl converts to Orthodoxy and Maria creates her a Grand Duchess in her own right. Problem solved.
 
The problem would not be solved, not from Romanov Marriage Laws point of view.
In order for the marriage to be considered equal, the bride must come from a royal house (usually, a reigning one).
The Grand Duchess may ennoble Georgi's bride of choice, but that wouldn't make the marriage equal; it'd still be considered morganatic.
 
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I think she does, on her mother's side for sure. not sure about her father's side.

I found on the internet that she is part of ADSI (Associazione Dimore Storiche Italiane member of the Historic European Houses) apparently you need to be noble to be part of that association, that's why I think she is noble.
In order to be a member of ADSI, you have to proven royal/noble/aristocratic ancestry, but not necessarily be one yourself.

Actually the website of the ADSI just says that in order to be a member one just has to be the owner or the beneficial owner of a historic mansion; it doesn't mention that members have to be of noble descent. It also says that legal persons can be member of the ADSI, and they hardly can be of noble descent.
 
That's interesting; thanks for clarifying MAfan!
I was under the impression that a noble/aristocratic ancestry was a must.
 
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The problem would not be solved, not from Romanov Marriage Laws point of view.
In order for the marriage to be considered equal, the bride must come from a royal house (usually, a reigning one).
The Grand Duchess may ennoble Georgi's bride of choice, but that wouldn't make the marriage equal; it'd still be considered morganatic.

But Maria is head of the Imperial Family. She can change the marriage laws as much or as little as she likes. The other lot won't like it of course but when have they ever approved of anything they weren't earning from?
 
I miss the word 'IF' in the first sentence ;).
I understand it is disputed that she is the head of the former Imperial Family ... anyway it's all hypothetical ... there is no Imperial Family anymore :whistling:
 
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Not quite. As long as there are people to consider Maria the Head of the Imperial Family, it exists and she's the boss. That's how monarchy works.
 
But Maria is head of the Imperial Family. She can change the marriage laws as much or as little as she likes. The other lot won't like it of course but when have they ever approved of anything they weren't earning from?
Any change of law (not merely customs or traditions) would require Parliament's (Duma's) approval. And therein is the problem; Russian Parliament (legal successor of the Soviet one, which was the legal successor of the Imperial one) is highly unlikely to do that.

The Grand Duchess may bend the rules somewhat (as her father did, announcing Princess Leonida to be his equal), but she can't actually change them all that easily.
 
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Well, that depends on how far Maria wants to take her powers as a monarch in exile. She could submit a request to the Russian government (who knows, they may play ball for a bit of positive press, "We're connecting with our past") but really there's no need. Nicholas II ruled for so long without a parliament making decisions affecting the family that Maria would only be following precedent if she did the same.
 
Grand Duchess Maria has already stated that any change she might make to the succession laws would require the blessing of the Orthodox Church. The Succession Laws are not laws of the Russian Federation, so I can't imagine the Duma would be at all interested in providing a legislative solution to support the Grand Duchess. I imagine recognising old laws as dormant rather than non-existant could open up a can of constitutional worms best left alone, so perhaps they could do something similar to Montenegro and enact new legislation.
 
Any change of law (not merely customs or traditions) would require Parliament's (Duma's) approval. And therein is the problem; Russian Parliament (legal successor of the Soviet one, which was the legal successor of the Imperial one) is highly unlikely to do that.

The Grand Duchess may bend the rules somewhat (as her father did, announcing Princess Leonida to be his equal), but she can't actually change them all that easily.

There is no legal LAW regarding whom Georgi can marry or not! It is only a 'Houselaw' of the former imperial family. Houselaws can be changed easily - by the House it concerns.

You wouldn't find a law concerning that in the russian legislation - for them, there is no more russian imperial family - with or without pretensions to an non excisting throne.

My family regards ME as the boss - that doesn't make me the imperess of Switzerland :previous: - it needs a bit more than 'some people regarding s.o. as boss' :lol:

Otherwise Christoph Blocher would be King of Switzerland by now :)eek: ugh what an ugly thought)
 
And yet we see Maria received by church officials, Putin etc in her capacity as Head of the Imperial Family thus giving legitimacy to the institution whether it reigns or not.
 
There is no legal LAW regarding whom Georgi can marry or not! It is only a 'Houselaw' of the former imperial family.
You are right that the laws regarding marriage are House Laws only. However, the house laws of some countries form (or formed) a section of the actual laws of the country. The Russian and Austrian Empires both had that, as do Monaco and Liechtenstein now.

In order for the law (even if it's just house law) to be changed, the Russian Empire must first be reinstated, and only then Imperial House Laws can be altered. Alternatively, the Government of the Russian Federation could, upon request of the Grand Duchess, attempt such amendment, although personally I don't see that happening. The reason the current Russian Government may be eligible to do that is because, as I already mentioned, is a legal successor of the Soviet Union, itself a legal successor of the Russian Empire.

And yet we see Maria received by church officials, Putin etc in her capacity as Head of the Imperial Family thus giving legitimacy to the institution whether it reigns or not.
I do not deny that, BeatrixFan. In fact, I'm glad you pointed out the fact since I personally am a supporter of the Grand Duchess.
 
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And yet we see Maria received by church officials, Putin etc in her capacity as Head of the Imperial Family thus giving legitimacy to the institution whether it reigns or not.


Putin doesn't do it with the view to give any credentials to Maria, but give himself some sort of royal aura.

Putin is only selfserving - it has no legal bearing whatsoever.
 
Which is true. Though I think for HIH, she cares more about what the Church thinks as in the unlikely event of a restoration it'd be the church who would anoint her as Empress. So if Georgi did want want to marry a commoner, I assume the scenario would be that she would approach the Patriarch and ask him to sanction the change in the house laws rather than the government. Which would probably work out in her favour because even Nicholas and Dmitri can't argue with the Patriarch. They'd try of course.
 
I think you are right about her mother, but she doesn't have a noble ancestry on her father's side (at least, not in the last 2-3 generations).
In order to be a member of ADSI, you have to proven royal/noble/aristocratic ancestry, but not necessarily be one yourself.

Do somebody have more details about her mother? What's her name? Why is she thought to be of noble descent?

Any details also about the historic mansion that the Bettarini may have in order to be members of ADSI? Isn't it possible that Rebecca was working for ADSI instead of being a member of it?

Here she's said to work in the Institutional Relations office of Finmeccanica (defence industry) in Bruxelles. European Youth Congress 2012 - Regnum Christi
 
I found some news and articles about Ambassador Bettarini.

here is an interview http://smooz.4your.net/diplomatic-world/files/DW33_Bettarini_1.pdf
apparently that beautiful palace where the pictures have been taken is the italian embassy!

here comes some articles involving the European Commissioner for DG Enterprise 27/09 - Tajani e l'Ambasciatore Roberto Bettarini presentano TECHITALY2012

a youtube video where he is interviewed Inauguration du nouveau Consulat Général d'Italie en Belgique à Charleroi - YouTube

the visit of state with SAR Grand Duke Henry of Luxembourg Galerie d'images de la visite d'État

another interview on diplomatic world DIPLOMATIC WORLD | Wix.com

a picture with his wife Carla Olivier Frank (Orchestre Philharmonique du Luxembourg), Roberto Bettarini (Ambasadeur d'Italie), son épouse, Jean Hoss (Avocat)

some commemoration in Brussels EC Audiovisual Service - Photo
 
Who knows who Georgi will marry and since he is a "regular" person, with none of this "royal" nonsense, he can marry anyone. Might not be a woman. Plus, all of this other stuff is imagined. There is no nation he will head, he has a job. No one cares.
 
I care because he is heir to the headship of the Imperial House of Russia. I admire Grand Duchess Maria for her dedication to the traditions of the Imperial House. I love her larger than life eccentricities and colourful character. She engages my imagination and I think she would be great fun to meet. I still smile when I think of her arriving at he wedding of Prince Albert and Princess Charlene (where she was listed in the official list of high dignitaries by her imperial style and title). Maria Vladimirovna made her stately way up the aisle, like a galleon in full sail. Behind her, obviously impatient to get to her seat and looking for an opportunity to overtake the Grand Duchess, was Miss Naomi Campbell. But Her Imperial Highness, serenely oblivious to the Super Model hot on her heals, maintained her dignified pace and Miss Campbell had to slow down.

As to Georgii Mikhailovich, there is not much evidence to illuminate what he thinks of his imperial heritage and future role. I guess we will have to wait and see. If, when the time comes, Georgii Mikhailovich assumes his heritage in the traditional manner of his mother, and his late grandfather, all I can say is good luck to him. I know a lot of people here like to make fun of Grand Duchess Maria, and cast Georgii Mikhailovich as the oppressed son of domineering mother (without any evidence one way or the other). Some, it would seem, even take a perverse delight in the idea of a son disappointing his mother. But maybe Georgii Mikhailovich fully supports his mother and shares her vision for the future of the Imperial House as a non-reigning institution involved with charitable, cultural, historical and religious activities. That is a much more realistic proposition than restoration of the monarchy, as the Grand Duchess has affirmed time and again. I hope Georgii Mikhailovich does see himself as the future Head of the Imperial House of Russia. I would like the Imperial House of Russia's future secured for another generation. That is why I care about who he marries. An equal match would obviously be ideal, and I would love to see it happen. But I am also interested in how things might unfold if the marriage is unequal (which is obviously more of a possibility than an equal match). Perhaps the Grand Duchess will have an attack of the vapours if her son brings home someone "unsuitable". But, somehow, Maria Vladimirovna does not strike me as the fainting type. I image she will get out the Fundamental Laws of the Imperial House, contact the Patriarch, and look for a way of according the marriage dynastic status. All with the same determination and certainty she has displayed since succeeding her father two decades ago. But until the Grand Duke requests permission to marry, the whole issue is entirely hypothetical.

That is the point of many of the threads in the non-reigning section of The Royal Forums: to give those of us who are interested a place to enjoy musing on topics, many of them hypothetical, that effect former reigning families, with their various degrees of legal, constitutional, national and international recognition, or lack thereof. But it seems almost impossible to do so when it comes to Maria Vladimirovna and Georgii Mikhailovich. But I have learnt time and again that there is no point trying to engage in a rational discussion when it comes to the Grand Duchess and her son on The Royal Forums. The evidence that supports the premis that Maria Vladimirovna is the recognised head of a non-reigning imperial family has been posted time and again by many people. Just as often it is totally ignored, or "refuted" with nothing more than further generalisations lacking any evidence whatsoever. It is this conflict that generally derails any chance of an interesting and meaningful discussion.

But I am intrigued why people who think Maria Vladimirovna and Georgii Mikhailovich are nothing, of no interest to anybody, or totally ridiculous, bother to post messages on threads about them, and in such large numbers. This thread has over 400 posts, a huge number of them by the same people repeatedly making the same claim that nobody cares and nobody is interested. The same people repeatedly presenting personal opinion as fact and never backing up generalisations with a shred of evidence, even when asked to do so by other posters. The same people regularly making rude, crass and unnecessary personal comments about the appearance of the Grand Duchess and her son. I don't understand why. Is it some sort of desire to cause trouble, to stir things up, to express irrational anger, or just to show how wonderfully witty they are? Who knows? I still sometimes get annoyed when a particularly nasty personal comment is made about a Grand Duchess I admire, but my general reaction now is bemusement.

There are many threads on The Royal Forums on subjects that do not interest me, and people I do not particularly like. So I do not read them. I have absolutely no interest at all in the children of the late Mr Pierre Casiraghi. But as the numerous threads on the Casiraghi trio show, many people are fascinated by their lives and loves. It would never occur to me to pop over to one of the Casiraghi threads and start leaving, for no particular reason, pointless messages, or provocative comments, that add nothing to the conversation. If I did I would at least preface my comments with something like "..in my opinion..." rather than presenting my subjective opinion as a pronouncement of objective truth.
 
First of all, the Cashiragis are NOT royal, by any stretch of the imagination, but are lovely to look at and so garner interest. The two of great interest to you have value as all people do, but have no "royal access" except for their past, either. The Patriarch can approve whatever he wants, but it will never make Georgi or Maria real players in Russia. That time is over. So who the woman is and he seems to be a wonderful young man marries, is his decision. Not some partiarch or mother who have dreams of an ancient past.
 
First of all, I agree, the Casiraghis are NOT royal, by any stretch of the imagination (not sure about the Cashiragis, I don't know who they are). But I never said they where. My point was that as the only contribution I could make to a thread on the trio would probably be something negative about spoilt rich kids, or frustration at the media treating them as if they are royal, when they are not even princely. So I do not go there. Why be a killjoy? Why spoil the fun of the people who like to discuss the goings on of some beautiful young people? I don't know what you mean by "royal access", so I can't comment on that; ditto "real players".

Who knows what the future holds for mother and son? Not a throne, though history shows that we should never say never. But representing their heritage is already a reality in many ways. Just look at the Grand Duchess making a visit to Australia as an official guest of the federal and state governments. She visited to commemorate the bicentenary of the arrival of the first Russian ship in Australia, and to honour the Russian Australians who returned home in 1914 to join the Imperial Army. That's not dreaming of the past, it is bringing the past to life. It is the sort of role we see developing in Romania, Bulgaria, Serbia and Montenegro.

I don't imagine the Grand Duchess sitting around her flat in Madrid waiting for a phone call from Moscow saying the crown is hers if she wants it. Filling in her empty hours playing patience, or browsing through obscure little royal forums to see what people are saying about her. She seems too busy getting on with her life in the way she wants to live it. In fact, it seems to me she is thoroughly enjoying herself. So who are we to pass judgement on her for her choices? That made me think how weird it is to get bogged down in these forums in discussions that never go anywhere.

I imagine Maria Vladimirovna having a hearty laugh (a deep throaty laugh I like to think) if she read some of the things written about her here. I think accusations of living in a dream world would probably strike her as particularly amusing, as she packs her bags for another trip to Russia, a trip jam packed with engagements. Who is in the dream world? Her Imperial Highness, the Pius and August Lady, Maria Vladimirovna, Grand Duchess of Russia, Head of the Imperial House of Russia, having a blast getting out and about, visiting people and places all over the world? No, I don't think so. If anyone is living in a dream world it is the people who spend all their time in anonymous internet forums, passing judgement on people they do not even know, and instigating squabbles just for the sake of it. While I was out walking my dog Bert this evening I realised I am in danger of getting sucked into that world. I don't think I want that to happen, so I'm signing off now and won't be back. It is time to get a life.
 
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