Earning a living as a non-full time royal

Once in a while the discussion comes up as to what non-full time working royals should be doing? Typically this mainly concerns the younger children of a monarch but in some royal families this question might also be asked for the next generation (grandchildren/cousins/nieces & nephews of the monarch). So, this thread is specifically dedicated for that question. It will be interesting to read the various perspectives. What are best practices and what should definitely be avoided? And how to go about the inherent risks that come with almost any endeavor for royals in this position.

Queen Claude said:

As far as royals, particularly spares, pursuing commercial endeavors, clearly ML has made agreements and then willfully disregarded certain terms, but IMO, I think that royal families are still grappling with what is the right way to allow the non-working royals to earn a living in a way that is not overly problematic for the monarchy.

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Somebody said:

I'd say problems typically arise when royals want to earn money by becoming a brand. If they have a regular job (either working for a larger company/organization or as an entrepreneur focused on the product they offer instead of their name), there isn't as much of an issue typically.

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Queen Claude said:

Are there really that many royals, specifically children of monarchs that have had "regular" jobs or been entrepreneurs? They are out there, Prince Carl Philip, Prince Constantijn, Infanta Elena, and even these still get criticism but I don't recall a scandal about their business practices but I am not 100% sure. I am not counting Princess Beatrice and Princess Eugenie because they are not children of the monarch, although I suppose that they can get an honorable mention because of how high profile the BRF is.

There are royals that have worked "regular" jobs or been entrepreneurs had controversies, with some being quite spectacular - Prince Edward and his wife Sophie, Fergie, although after her divorce, Infanta Cristina and her ex-husband, Prince Laurent, Princess Martha Louise and recently Princess Laurentien.

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Prince Edward, Sophie, Fergie and Märtha Louise all were or are 'banking' on their profile as royals, so they don't fit the description of doing things that are not depending on their 'royal brand'. They fit the description of indeed being problematic.

Infanta Cristina's job is actually a pretty good example, she is doing meaningful work without attracting any controversy. That her husband was involved in criminal practices, was of course problematic and would be problematic independent of what specific job that person was doing.

Prince Laurent is receiving a dotation, so he does not depend on any outside activities to earn a living. Prince Joachim is also in that boat and it seems to be a rather complicated position: receiving money from the state but with a lighter work load than the 'core royals' (even more so over time).

Princess Laurentien's example shows that being involved in political issues is tricky and should be avoided - although previously her work in various areas was lauded, so, it is a very thin line.

Other examples of (mostly) success stories that I can think of: prince Friso and princess Mabel, the younger children of grand duke Henri. In Monaco, Albert's nieces and nephews (the de facto next generation for quite some time) also don't cause lots of controversy or trouble for his reign. The Liechtenstein princely family seems to be doing fine as well.

I think it comes partly down to a hard to fulfill mix of exceptions by the public (and also here in the forum).

On one hand they probably want (and sort of are expected) to maintain a certain lifestyle. But that requires an sufficient income, which limits the options for jobs to a certain grade.

On the other hand if someone picks up a well paying job (for example in finance) there are immediately voices complaining that they only got the job due to connections and there name. But at the same time the nature of the job will make it hard to show the opposite.

I think it is even worse for the second child. They hang between roles much longer. Especially in modern times the chance for them to succeed is really slim. On the same time, they will be the practical number two (even if there are nephews/nieces in front of them) for decades (well into their 40/50s). So they will have to balance even longer between both roles, having your own job but still being a lot in the public eye.

We also see in some monarchies that slimming down too much can be troublesome too. Norway is down to how many? The king, who will understandably be more and more restricted due to his age/health. The crown prince. The crown princess also has a lasting sickness, then Ingrid. I expect her brother to have to step in just out of plain necessity.

Britain has a different situation, but I feel they will have to pull in from one of the side branches (my suspicion why you see Louise still a lot) to fill in the age gap between William and his kids. George won't be full time working royal for at least 10 - 15 years and this could create a similar situation like in Norway with Charles and his siblings slowly having to reduce the workload, while the spot Harry would fill is empty.

I think is extraordinarily difficult to navigate being born a child of a king/queen, with the life, status and privilege it brings, to suddenly realise that by being third, fourth or fifth (depending on the children born in the direct line) they've lost everything they were born into in the life they always knew. Monarchies are a brutal regime where the first born gets everything, and the rest have to deal with being obsolete.

Modern monarchies need to make the transition between direct line and non working royals easier by education and clear/transparent rules - anyone working for the monarchy can't have private commercial dealings on the side.

By providing a good, solid education, non working royals have the freedom to leave monarchy rules and forge their own path. They will always be privileged people with top level network contacts at global level, with opening doors few of us can dream of.

Infanta Sofia and Prince Gabriel of Belgium are the two royals I think about in this issue. Both are receiving great education, and both are expected to eventually become private citizens with their own jobs.

BJB said:

I think it comes partly down to a hard to fulfill mix of exceptions by the public (and also here in the forum).

On one hand they probably want (and sort of are expected) to maintain a certain lifestyle. But that requires an sufficient income, which limits the options for jobs to a certain grade.

On the other hand if someone picks up a well paying job (for example in finance) there are immediately voices complaining that they only got the job due to connections and there name. But at the same time the nature of the job will make it hard to show the opposite.

I think it is even worse for the second child. They hang between roles much longer. Especially in modern times the chance for them to succeed is really slim. On the same time, they will be the practical number two (even if there are nephews/nieces in front of them) for decades (well into their 40/50s). So they will have to balance even longer between both roles, having your own job but still being a lot in the public eye.

We also see in some monarchies that slimming down too much can be troublesome too. Norway is down to how many? The king, who will understandably be more and more restricted due to his age/health. The crown prince. The crown princess also has a lasting sickness, then Ingrid. I expect her brother to have to step in just out of plain necessity.

Britain has a different situation, but I feel they will have to pull in from one of the side branches (my suspicion why you see Louise still a lot) to fill in the age gap between William and his kids. George won't be full time working royal for at least 10 - 15 years and this could create a similar situation like in Norway with Charles and his siblings slowly having to reduce the workload, while the spot Harry would fill is empty

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Some royal families are also privately wealthy and younger children who are not in direct line to the throne are likely to benefit from trust funds and other forms of inherited wealth, including jewelry, art, and possibly real estate. So, in the worst case scenario, they still enjoy a considerable head start compared to people from ordinary middle-class families.

Furthermore, being royals, they also have access to quality education such as attending top schools. Of course not all princes and princesses make the most out of their education opportunities, but those who do can also get into top universities and earn high-valued degrees. Having a good education and the best possible social network (as members of a royal family) should mean that it would be normally easy for them to enter into high earning careers in the private sector, if they chose to follow that path.

The main complication which junior royals face when pursuing a private career is, however, the possibility of conflicts of interest given their proximity to the head of state. That issue, however, applies mostly to children of a reigning monarch, or to children of the heir to throne. That is perhaps one of the reasons why people in those categories, most notably males, tend to go for military careers instead of careers in the private sector.

The problem is though that the top positions in the military are very limited in number and only a very small percentage of the junior officers will ever go all the way to become a general, admiral, or air marshal. Most likely, they will leave the military early as a captain, major, or maybe a lieutenant colonel at most (or equivalent ranks in the Navy or the Air Force). For royal princes in particular, that is a big complication because they might find themselves out of the Army/Navy/Air Force in their 40s and, unlike many of their fellow retired officers, they cannot move into high-paying jobs in the defense industry or consulting because of potential conflicts of interest.

That may sound a bit anachronistic, but it seems to me that the safest occupation for a junior royal in terms of being shielded from any political controversy is still the traditional path of the old landed aristocracy, i.e., managing a estate that can be used for commercial farming or other business activities, possibly after a stint in the military,

But again, as I said, the constraints I mentioned before do not apply to relatives of a monarch who are not either the sovereign's or the heir's children. In principle, I don't see why grandchildren of a sovereign in collateral line (like Andrew's, Anne's, Edward's, or Harry's children for example) could not pursue whatever private career they want, except perhaps a career in politics as an elected public officer, which would be controversial.

Somebody said:

Prince Edward, Sophie, Fergie and Märtha Louise all were or are 'banking' on their profile as royals, so they don't fit the description of doing things that are not depending on their 'royal brand'. They fit the description of indeed being problematic.

Infanta Cristina's job is actually a pretty good example, she is doing meaningful work without attracting any controversy. That her husband was involved in criminal practices, was of course problematic and would be problematic independent of what specific job that person was doing.

Prince Laurent is receiving a dotation, so he does not depend on any outside activities to earn a living. Prince Joachim is also in that boat and it seems to be a rather complicated position: receiving money from the state but with a lighter work load than the 'core royals' (even more so over time).

Princess Laurentien's example shows that being involved in political issues is tricky and should be avoided - although previously her work in various areas was lauded, so, it is a very thin line.

Other examples of (mostly) success stories that I can think of: prince Friso and princess Mabel, the younger children of grand duke Henri. In Monaco, Albert's nieces and nephews (the de facto next generation for quite some time) also don't cause lots of controversy or trouble for his reign. The Liechtenstein princely family seems to be doing fine as well.

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I know there were issues with Edward and Sophie years ago but are they not now considered senior working royals?

I'd say that princess Madeleine seems to have chosen the 'traditional' path for a princess up to the late 1960s, to marry a wealthy man and become a wife and mother full time. Of King Carl Gustaf's sisters it's only princess Christina who has been working, with the Red Cross.
Now when Madeleine and family moves back to Sweden, I can see there might be complaints if she continues being 'mother and wife' like she's been in the US, as women in Sweden are expected to work. In Sweden 80% of women between the ages of 20 and 64 work. Madeleine has a good education, but I'm not sure how 'marketable' it is, in a field suitable for a member of the SRF that wouldn't draw criticism of her getting a job because who she is.

BJB said:

I think it comes partly down to a hard to fulfill mix of exceptions by the public (and also here in the forum).

On one hand they probably want (and sort of are expected) to maintain a certain lifestyle. But that requires an sufficient income, which limits the options for jobs to a certain grade.

On the other hand if someone picks up a well paying job (for example in finance) there are immediately voices complaining that they only got the job due to connections and there name. But at the same time the nature of the job will make it hard to show the opposite.

I think it is even worse for the second child. They hang between roles much longer. Especially in modern times the chance for them to succeed is really slim. On the same time, they will be the practical number two (even if there are nephews/nieces in front of them) for decades (well into their 40/50s). So they will have to balance even longer between both roles, having your own job but still being a lot in the public eye.

We also see in some monarchies that slimming down too much can be troublesome too. Norway is down to how many? The king, who will understandably be more and more restricted due to his age/health. The crown prince. The crown princess also has a lasting sickness, then Ingrid. I expect her brother to have to step in just out of plain necessity.

Britain has a different situation, but I feel they will have to pull in from one of the side branches (my suspicion why you see Louise still a lot) to fill in the age gap between William and his kids. George won't be full time working royal for at least 10 - 15 years and this could create a similar situation like in Norway with Charles and his siblings slowly having to reduce the workload, while the spot Harry would fill is empty.

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Sometimes the younger royals are between a rock and a hard place, if they are any way connected to the royal family then find success in a chosen field they are accused of nepotism or using connections etc etc. There is no doubt that their connections open doors for them but an example is Zara, she still needed to work hard to reach the achievements she did, her connections did not help win Olympic medals she still had to work to reach that goal.

Thank you for moving the discussion to this thread, Somebody. It is indeed a recurrent and relevant discussion.

Somebody said:

In Monaco, Albert's nieces and nephews (the de facto next generation for quite some time) also don't cause lots of controversy or trouble for his reign.

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The Monegasque nephews' professional activities seem to have caused quite a bit of controversy, judging from this report.

Meraude said:

I'd say that princess Madeleine seems to have chosen the 'traditional' path for a princess up to the late 1960s, to marry a wealthy man and become a wife and mother full time. Of King Carl Gustaf's sisters it's only princess Christina who has been working, with the Red Cross.
Now when Madeleine and family moves back to Sweden, I can see there might be complaints if she continues being 'mother and wife' like she's been in the US, as women in Sweden are expected to work. In Sweden 80% of women between the ages of 20 and 64 work. Madeleine has a good education, but I'm not sure how 'marketable' it is, in a field suitable for a member of the SRF that wouldn't draw criticism of her getting a job because who she is.

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On the other hand, Sofia Hellqvist (now Princess Sofia) gave up working even before becoming engaged to Prince Carl Philip and was spared any criticism for that.

Royalist.in.NC said:

I know there were issues with Edward and Sophie years ago but are they not now considered senior working royals?

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But they no longer have any career outside of being working royals, do they?

I believe that Infanta Sofia will have duties in the Royal Household and will perhaps be a full-time royal.
I believe that Prince Gabriel of Belgium, Princess Isabella of Denmark or Princess Charlotte could combine their roles as royals with regular jobs.

Blog Real said:

I believe that Infanta Sofia will have duties in the Royal Household and will perhaps be a full-time royal.
I believe that Prince Gabriel of Belgium, Princess Isabella of Denmark or Princess Charlotte could combine their roles as royals with regular jobs.

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If Gabriel chooses to stay in the military, he will face the dilemma I mentioned before, namely retiring at a still relatively young age with no obvious path for a second career.

As I said, in particular in countries with small armed forces like Belgium, very few junior officers will ever make to a general or admiral rank. A military career in these cases cannot be seen realistically as a terminal career and one needs to have a Plan B for what he (or she) is going to do after leaving the military.

The House of Liechtenstein has the best practice on what to do with so many family members, they all seem work in jobs connected to the family business like investments and banking. Same seems to happen in Monaco. Problem with larger monarchies, they can't be run as a business and in places like Spain a royal running a private business can get you in lots of trouble.

Royalist.in.NC said:

I know there were issues with Edward and Sophie years ago but are they not now considered senior working royals?

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Yes, they are. So, it is good to see that one (serious) mistake is not disqualifying for life.

I expect the same with Laurentien right now. She made the mistake to get too much involved with a political issue (with the best intentions as everyone -even in politics- acknowledges but in the end it wasn't the smart thing to do) but has now stepped down. So, if they are willing to learn from their mistakes, there is a way forward. And those cases are very different compared to royals who stubbornly continue on a path that is more or less destructive to the monarchy.

Blog Real said:

I believe that Infanta Sofia will have duties in the Royal Household and will perhaps be a full-time royal.

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Given her father's depiction of her future is "support her sister", it feels like she is being prepared and educated for the possibility of a private life (we'll know more with what she chooses after graduating) if need be, while also leaving open the possibility she may have to support Leonor in an official capacity.

How long till we get a royal ((son / daughter of a monarch)) being an influencer?

Leonor and Sofia are as close as her grandmother queen Sofia is to her sister, princess Irene. Seems to run in the family. And when I recall all the years before Leonor became an adult with new responsibilities, the parents supported for them to see each other as equals even wearing matching outfits in public.

Felipe and his father Juan Carlos didn't have that in their lives. Felipe was his father's focus since birth that I always suspected helped win over Franco even more back in 1968, prioritized over his sisters. And Juan Carlos grew up in isolation when Franco demanded he will take over his life to mold him as his clone,

It's good that Leonor has for best friend her own sister. That seems helped her maturity be at level neither her father nor grandfather experienced when they were the same age.

There are already multiple grandchildren (nieces or nephews) of monarchs going the influencer and/or the modelling route. In which cases, they are clearly using their royal connection for personal gain/branding.

Even in the creative arts such as fiction writing, painting, acting, ballet dancing etc I could foresee jealousies cropping up among contemporaries and colleagues in companies about promotions being subject to undue influence or book promotions being largely due to who the person is. That would happen in the business world as well. Nothing is as easy as we would think it would be.

I agree that Liechtenstein has the right idea with no controversy about multiple members working to assist the family firm. However this just wouldn’t work with other royal families for various reasons. I can just imagine the voracious British tabloids getting stuck into a Royal or near-Royal relative who headed a failing business. We’ve seen it happen already.

I just feel that the younger offspring of actual monarchs have hard choices to make. In most cases the lower down the totem pole a royal or royal parent is, then the higher the likelihood of success in the private world plus virtual anonymity. After all, what the offspring of a cousin to a sovereign does (short of criminality) is just not newsworthy.

Alondra mentioned the importance of education. I agree. There would be so many more opportunities for a minor royal who has the benefit of a university education and even an advanced degree. The British royals as a group never seemed as concerned with higher education as the other royal families.

A good option would be working for (humanitarian) non-profit organizations like the UN, Red Cross etc.

Tatiana Maria said:

On the other hand, Sofia Hellqvist (now Princess Sofia) gave up working even before becoming engaged to Prince Carl Philip and was spared any criticism for that.

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In 2011 Sofia and Carolina Pihl launched yoga clothing brand Drop of Mindfulness. Sofia worked as the Secretary General of Project Playground from 2012 until April 2015.

LadyFinn said:

In 2011 Sofia and Carolina Pihl launched yoga clothing brand Drop of Mindfulness. Sofia worked as the Secretary General of Project Playground from 2012 until April 2015.

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If Sofia Hellqvist's work with Project Playground is counted, then Princess Madeleine's work with the World Childhood Foundation should also be counted as work.

Tatiana Maria said:

If Sofia Hellqvist's work with Project Playground is counted, then Princess Madeleine's work with the World Childhood Foundation should also be counted as work.

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I understand that "Project Playground" and "World Childhood Foundation" both are charity projects. Working for that couldn't cover your cost of living like any other job with a salary or do you get a salary as Secretary General ?

Tatiana Maria said:

On the other hand, Sofia Hellqvist (now Princess Sofia) gave up working even before becoming engaged to Prince Carl Philip and was spared any criticism for that.

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Tatiana Maria said:

If Sofia Hellqvist's work with Project Playground is counted, then Princess Madeleine's work with the World Childhood Foundation should also be counted as work.

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When Sofia married Carl Philip she was supposed to become working royal, be it fulltime or parttime. I don't know how much of her time she spends engaged with Sophiahemmet, and the Prins Carl Philip och prinsessan Sofias stiftelse, but she was at least doing some amount of work at Sophiahemmet during the Covid pandemic.
Yes, the time with Project Playground and the World Childhood Foundation does count for 'royal work' for both of them.

Sofia is now expecting her fourth child, my guess is that she then will be on maternity leave, as she and Carl Philip has the same right as any other Swedish parents to 480 days of parental leave.
Madeleine's youngest on the other hand will begin school, and I would guess that people will expect Madeleine to be doing more than 'shopping and meet friends' while the children are at school, at least parttime. I'm not sure there would be that much for her to do as a 'working royal' as Sweden is not as interested in royal visits as for example the UK. If Madeleine wants to do something with her time, she will have to look outside the traditional royal role.

What makes you think that Sweden is less interested in royal visits than the UK? It seems the Swedish royals are always well received whenever they make a 'royal visit'.

It very much seemed that Sofia at least partly started Project Playground as a way to raise her charity profile - and she continued in a slightly different role after her marriage. I would say that both the World Childhood Foundation (an initiative by queen Silvia) and Project Playground are considered part of the charitable activities that the princesses undertake. They are not a private job outside of the royal sphere.

how about professional sports? Like not even as players but say ownership

It would definitely highlight how far the royal family is removed from the general population. In Europe, typically private owners of professional sports teams will be oligarchs from Russia or the Middle East. Not something you'd like to associate yourself with as a member of the royal family.

Prince Bernhard is one of the owners of the F1-circuit in the Netherlands and is getting lots of flack for that. He is a very successful businessman and because of that was able to pursue his passion in auto sports and got the F1 to return to Zandvoort. He started a business as a student (not based on his name or fame) and is the founder of Levi9 and owns many houses in Amsterdam (he is the most famous landlord of Amsterdam), so the money is coming from his own businesses but still... people don't look up favorably to his success.

His cousin Friso was an even more successful businessman but was more out of the public eye operating from London, so received less criticism for it.

Toledo said:

The House of Liechtenstein has the best practice on what to do with so many family members, they all seem work in jobs connected to the family business like investments and banking. Same seems to happen in Monaco. Problem with larger monarchies, they can't be run as a business and in places like Spain a royal running a private business can get you in lots of trouble.

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That doesn't seem to work out flawlessly in Monaco. Just a few months ago, several outlets ran stories about the Casiraghi brothers supposedly using their influence to get support for their commercial projects.

Albert's older son Alexandre has attracted some attention for his activities, too. I suspect that will continue.

PhillyMonarchist said:

how about professional sports? Like not even as players but say ownership

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Queen Elizabeth, the Aga Khan, and Sheikh Mohammed al Maktoum all had/have a lot of success as owners in horse racing.

I think several of the Middle Eastern royals also own soccer teams in Europe.

Tatiana Maria said:

If Sofia Hellqvist's work with Project Playground is counted, then Princess Madeleine's work with the World Childhood Foundation should also be counted as work.

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Sofia got salary when she worked as the Secretary General of Project Playground until spring 2015. Madeleine has been Vice Honorary Chair of World Childhood Foundation since December 2021, she doesn't get any salary. The problem perhaps is, that we or the Swedes don't know how much she works for WCF. Should we know that, I think not. She is working for WCF and that's it.
Margareta Thorgren has said:
- Princess Madeleine and what she works with is not something we write in the royal calendar, so therefore I cannot comment on it.
Thorgren has said previously that when any of the members of the royal family do official tasks, i.e. tasks given by the King, the court informs about it in the royal calendar and in the court's digital channels.

At Royal Court's website:
HRH Princess Madeleine's public programme is limited. The Princess is involved in a number of foundations. In addition, Her Royal Highness carries out engagements as determined by HM The King.
When the opportunity arises, Princess Madeleine attends celebrations within the Royal House as well as other events as determined by HM The King.
The Princess is Vice Honorary Chair of World Childhood Foundation since December 2021.

PhillyMonarchist said:

how about professional sports? Like not even as players but say ownership

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If any of the royals want to take over United and boot out the Glazer family, bring it on . I can't really see it happening, though. Celebs like Ryan Reynolds and Elton John have taken over football clubs, but I can't see the royals getting involved.

Somebody said:

It would definitely highlight how far the royal family is removed from the general population. In Europe, typically private owners of professional sports teams will be oligarchs from Russia or the Middle East. Not something you'd like to associate yourself with as a member of the royal family.

Prince Bernhard is one of the owners of the F1-circuit in the Netherlands and is getting lots of flack for that. He is a very successful businessman and because of that was able to pursue his passion in auto sports and got the F1 to return to Zandvoort. He started a business as a student (not based on his name or fame) and is the founder of Levi9 and owns many houses in Amsterdam (he is the most famous landlord of Amsterdam), so the money is coming from his own businesses but still... people don't look up favorably to his success.

His cousin Friso was an even more successful businessman but was more out of the public eye operating from London, so received less criticism for it.

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You don't have to own a football team or an F1 track to run a sports-related business. Zara Tindall (née Phillips) was a competitive equestrian and, as far as I understand, is now involved in different equestrian-related businesses, as is her mother also.