Two Sicilies: rival claims, 2014 reconciliation and succession issues

[cepe]

I think this is the right place

Reconciliation in House of Two-Sicilies
Royal Musings: Royal Musings exclusive: RECONCILIATION IN THE HOUSE OF BOURBON-TWO SICILIES

 

[Cory]

We must thank the Blessed Queen Maria Cristina for this new miracle.
The Heads of the Royal House of Two Sicilies, of the Royal House of Savoy-Aosta and of the Royal House of Portugal were all present at this important event.
The Royal House of Bourbon-Two Sicilies became an example for all the other Royal Houses.

 

[Marengo]

The reconcilliation is a rather sensible and dignified approach IMHO. Let's hope that more houses will follow suit.

 

[Marengo]

Perhaps I missed this in the posts above, but has it been decided that the Duke of Capua will be heir for both branches? He seems to be presented as such in the pictures. Or will the 2nd headship go to the descendants of Prince Rainiere (provided the Duke of Castro will not get any sons)?

Rainiere's eldest son Antonio married a Duchess of Württemberg, and his eldest son Franz Philip married a countess of Schönborn.

 

[MAfan]

As far as I have understood, the question of the succession to the headship of the House has not (yet or however explicitely) been discussed; on the contrary, the main aim of the reconciliation was to settle things with regards to the dynastic orders.

Btw, the next in the line after Prince Charles is Prince Antonio, who is the eldest son of the late Prince Gabriele (and not Ranieri, who instead was Charles' grandfather).

 

[Cory]

The question of the Succession in the future has not been discussed yet. The first step will be to unite the two branches of the Constantinian Order of Saint George.
The Duke of Capua is learning Italian and he is prepared to have an important role in Family affairs in the future.

Maria Cristina di Savoia: Italian queen beatified | Diana Mandache Historian & Author
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[MAfan]

Royal Musings posted the translation of the Act of Reconciliation:

Royal Musings: Text of the Act of Reconciliation

 

[MarleneKoenig]

The succession is not the issue because there is no throne to succeed to in 2014. As I made clear in my exclusive story (before others had it) ... I have known for several weeks -- the two branches recognize each other's titles. Castro has no sons, Pedro has four. Royal Musings: Royal Musings exclusive: RECONCILIATION IN THE HOUSE OF BOURBON-TWO SICILIES

 

[Marengo]

Thanks for correcting me MAFan, I find all these sons of prince Alfonso difficult to keep apart.

The reconciliation is indeed in the christian spirit of the order they represent, nontheless I am sure it took a lot of time to work it out. I applaud both branches for doing so. I suppose by recognising the duke of Capua as heir, the duke of Castro will deny his own claim. So that is not likely to happen. Still, it would be the best route eventually IMO.

-
And on a different note: Nice to see so many Bourbon-Two Sicilies and Savoy royals. It has been ages since I have seen a picture of the duchess of Calabria. A pity that the health of the duke of Calabria didn't allow him to be part of this.

 

[An Ard Ri]

Yes I agree Marengo,I happy that this reconciliation has been resolved and such a pity it took them so long to do it!
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[Cory]

It is important it finally happened.The Duke of Capua would be the best Head of the Family in the future.

 

[elza]

Hello, I am a new one here but have been reading the forum and this thread for a while. Some of you mentioned something about dynastic suitability and I wondered what exactly it means Is it that they only want aritstocrats to marry in? Very different from the still enthroned royals then as they marry just whoever they love/want

 

[Marengo]

Now that is nice and in the spirit of the event. Let's hope that the houses of Savoy will be able to work out a simular agreement in the future. Who is seated next to her? A prince of Yugoslavia?

 

[Cory]

The situation of the Royal House of Two Sicilies can't be compared with that of the Royal House of Savoy I suppose.
Prince Serge of Yougoslavia was one of the few Royals present at the event who spoke more with Prince Emanuele Filiberto's wife Clotilde Courau.

 

[MAfan]

The site of the Constantinian Order of St. George has published the scans of the Act of Reconciliation:
http://www.constantinianorder.org/downloads/acta-conciliacion-firmada.pdf
Also two press releases by the Duke of Noto and the Duke of Castro were released, reiterating that the Act of Reconciliation doesn't contain any mention to the dispute over the Headship of the Royal Family:
http://www.constantinianorder.org/downloads/comunicado-duque-de-castro.pdf
http://www.constantinianorder.org/downloads/comunicado-duque-de-noto.pdf

 

[Cory]

First they probably want to unify the Order.

Sent from my GT-S6312 using The Royals Community mobile app

 

[An Ard Ri]

The site of the Constantinian Order of St. George has published the scans of the Act of Reconciliation:
http://www.constantinianorder.org/downloads/acta-conciliacion-firmada.pdf
Also two press releases by the Duke of Noto and the Duke of Castro were released, reiterating that the Act of Reconciliation doesn't contain any mention to the dispute over the Headship of the Royal Family:
http://www.constantinianorder.org/downloads/comunicado-duque-de-castro.pdf
http://www.constantinianorder.org/downloads/comunicado-duque-de-noto.pdf

The Edict of Milan

Historic Dynastic Act of Reconciliation Signed |

 

[DPA66]

Does anyone know what/who brought about the reconciliation?

 

[Warren]

The younger-generation 'Heads' of the two rival branches themselves, the Duke of Noto, and the Duke of Castro, with the support of their immediate families.

For background and further details, refer to this link:
Royal Musings: Royal Musings exclusive: RECONCILIATION IN THE HOUSE OF BOURBON-TWO SICILIES
.

 

[DPA66]

Warren, thanks for the link.

 

[CyrilVladisla]

The younger-generation 'Heads' of the two rival branches themselves, the Duke of Noto, and the Duke of Castro, with the support of their immediate families.

For background and further details, refer to this link:
Royal Musings: Royal Musings exclusive: RECONCILIATION IN THE HOUSE OF BOURBON-TWO SICILIES
.

Warren, Thank you for the details of the rivalry.
It was interesting to learn about the history of the Act of Cannes.
The article mentioned:

This (the document) was hastily drawn up and signed on December 14, 1900 and was the catalyst leading to the division within the family.

Would it have been better if more time had been involved to prepare the document?

 

[MAfan]

I don't know if spending more time in preparing the Act of Cannes would have changed the situation, but surely a different wording of the Act would have made things quite different. But this is something we can see and say in retrospect, I don't think that when the Act was written and signed they could foresee its implications 60 years later.

 

[CyrilVladisla]

MAfan, I agree. A different wording of the Act of Cannes would have made things different.
​

 

[Benjamin]

In what is being referred to as the Act of Rome, the Duke of Castro seeks to abolish the Salic Law for his descendants.

Official Act of the Head of the House of Bourbon-Two Sicilies Abolishing Salic Law In The Succession To the Headship of the House.

MAY 15, 2016
The Royal House of Bourbon Two Sicilies would like to make the following announcement:

His Royal Highness Prince Charles of Bourbon Two Sicilies, Duke of Castro, Head of the Royal House makes public his decision to change the rules of succession which have thus far been in force in the House of Bourbon Two Sicilies in order to make them compatible with international and European law which prohibits any discrimination between men and women, not only in the enjoyment of their rights and freedoms but also in the exercise of public office of any kind.

The rule of absolute primogeniture will henceforth apply to his direct descendants.

The Official Act is as follows:

WE, Charles of Bourbon Two Sicilies, Duke of Castro, Head of the Royal House of Bourbon Two Sicilies, Grand Master of the Dynastic Orders; Whereas the Royal Families of Europe currently ruling have finally abandoned, in order to comply with the principle of equality between men and women as part of the foundation of international and European law, the principle called the "Salic law", which excludes daughters from the order of succession, the majority of them have adopted the rule of succession of absolute primogeniture;
Whereas the Real House of Bourbon Two Sicilies must, if it aspires to be able to claim to recover its sovereignty and to exercise it in accordance with the law and the principles recognized by the International community, hereby adopts in turn a rule of succession which conforms to this law;

WE decide:

Article 1: The order of hereditary succession to the Royal House of Bourbon of Two Sicilies is amended with the aim of introducing a strict equality between men and women.

Article 2: The principle of absolute primogeniture is replaced in any rule of former succession.

Article 3: This new order of succession is applicable for the first time to our descendants.

Article 4: The rules and statutes of all dynastic orders referring to the Royal House of Bourbon Two Sicilies will be amended accordingly.

Rome, 12 May 2016

Sources: News & Events - Sacred Military Constantinian Order of Saint George United States Delegation
Reprise de la guerre de succession chez les Bourbon-Siciles ?
Duke of Castro adopts gender equal succession

 

[Marengo]

Oh dear... I suppose this will mean that we will have a 3rd claimant for the house of the Two Sicilies in the future.

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

The Duke of Castro of course would never have done so when he had a son indeed. How conveniently for a non-reigning family with no legal status to point to European laws when it comes handy... Now we only need to wait for Luis Alfonso de Borbón to claim the throne of France for his daughters...

 

[Marengo]

Don Luis Alfonso has two sons: Luis and Alfonso... But in his case it would be less of a problem as the duchy of Franco can be inherited in the female line too.

I suppose you mean the prince Emanuele Filiberto of Italy, who has two daughters -Vittoria and Luisa- and no sons?

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

Don Luis Alfonso has two sons: Luis and Alfonso... But in his case it would be less of a problem as the duchy of Franco can be inherited in the female line too.

I suppose you mean the prince Emanuele Filiberto of Italy, who has two daughters -Vittoria and Luisa- and no sons?

Yes, Emanuele Filiberto, my fault. It is waiting until he declares that his daughters will inherit his claim. And I am sure the Duke of Parma would have done the same if he had not got a (legal) son recently.

 

[MAfan]

Don Luis Alfonso has two sons: Luis and Alfonso... But in his case it would be less of a problem as the duchy of Franco can be inherited in the female line too.

If I don't mistake, the Dukedom of Franco will be eventually indeed inherited by his daughter, since she is the first born child.


However, back to the Two Sicilies, I'm wondering:
- what do the other Princes think about this decision?
- what will happen to the Grand Mastership of the Constantinian Order?

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

The longer I am on these forums, the more I tend to become republican. I am sick of royals who tweak all possible rules as long it suits them. Not my sort of monarchy I am sorry to say. I am willing to go along with these fairytales anno 2016 but when even royals themselves give no damn' anymore about rules which were so core and so essential and so deadly serious for them, pfff... they blow with every wind, really... every standard, piles of international treaties, solemnely signed documents: all thrown out of the window

Marrying the plummer? Why not? He will make a fine royal! End the centuries long royal lineage from father to son? Why not? I have only daughters... The next head of the House Bourbon-Two Sicilies may be the child of a German singer or an American businessman? No problem, we simply rename Junge Herr Schmidt or Young Mr Smith into "Bourbon-Deux Siciles" and we pretend it is still the same royal dynasty.

This total lack of any principle hits all royal families. When my country will organize a referendum on the monarchy, I will vote for a republic. Yes, I am a conservative but when it is developing this way, please give me the chance to choose MY own favourite commoner as head of state. Everything better than this vaudeville, this farce. It has finally hit the bottomline.