Savoy and Savoy-Aosta: Restoration, Succession, Heirs and Conflicts 1: Ending 2022


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Truth be told it was rather hard to find membership numbers even when I did my extensive research on Italian monarchist parties. I did find an organization called the Savoy Honor Guard has a total of 5,000 members which could be better or could be worst depending on your views. As for the Monarchist Alliance, all I can go with for their membership total is 110,000 as of 2012, I got that information from wikipedia and I have been looking for other websites throughout the internet for another statement of how many members in the organization/party. Heck I found information as early as 2017 on the Monarchist Alliance but they didn't state anything about how many members. I tried looking on their blogs and tumblrs and nothing really there about membership total and as for their website it apparently no longer exists.

I honestly do hope they have at least 110,000 members because I'm tired of the constant bad news when it comes to monarchism lately with the former King of Romania dying and the Serbian polls being outrageously rigged, seriously who the heck rigs a poll for something like that.

-Frozen Royalist
 
Duc_et_Pair said:
They were seen as Spanish intruders and joyfully kicked out of the country. If that is not true, why are they then not today's Kings of Italy?
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The Kings of Two Sicilies were speaking the Naples dialect and very popular in their Kingdom and still are in the south. The myth they were " intruders" was built after the Risorgimento.
The real intruders were those that support Garibaldi.
 
Frozen Royalist said:
Truth be told it was rather hard to find membership numbers even when I did my extensive research on Italian monarchist parties. I did find an organization called the Savoy Honor Guard has a total of 5,000 members which could be better or could be worst depending on your views. As for the Monarchist Alliance, all I can go with for their membership total is 110,000 as of 2012, I got that information from wikipedia and I have been looking for other websites throughout the internet for another statement of how many members in the organization/party. Heck I found information as early as 2017 on the Monarchist Alliance but they didn't state anything about how many members. I tried looking on their blogs and tumblrs and nothing really there about membership total and as for their website it apparently no longer exists.

I honestly do hope they have at least 110,000 members because I'm tired of the constant bad news when it comes to monarchism lately with the former King of Romania dying and the Serbian polls being outrageously rigged, seriously who the heck rigs a poll for something like that.

-Frozen Royalist
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Unfortunately the reality is much different and the question of numbers is just one aspect. Not only that the pro-Savoy associations/groups/parties are not really big but their influence in the society is not great either. The last important royalist leader Sergio Boschiero died three years ago and today the only significant royalist voice is of prof. Mola.
 
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Cory said:
The Kings of Two Sicilies were speaking the Naples dialect and very popular in their Kingdom and still are in the south. The myth they were " intruders" was built after the Risorgimento.
The real intruders were those that support Garibaldi.
Click to expand...

Whatever the reason, the Kingdom of the Two Sicilies ended 157 years ago. The referendum on the monarchy in 1946 showed the best results in favour of the Savoias in exactly the former Kingdom of the Two Sicilies. For so far the "loyalty" to the Bourbons.
 
Time to move on...

This thread is about the house of Savoy, their conflicts, heirs and restoration movements. This thread is not about the Italian houses of Bourbon.

We encourage our posters to maintain some connection with reality. And the reality is that there is no movement that works towards the break-up of the Italian republic coupled to the return to Bourbon, Habsburg and Papal states. People who are interested in discussing alternative histories or realities are kindly requested to take their cause elsewhere. Forums dedicated to alternate historical fiction can be found here:

Alternate History Websites, Discussion Boards and Blogs
 
The royalists supporting Prince Amedeo are highly divided these days between those that defend the official line of Unione Monarchica Italiana and those that consider La Consulta dei Senatori del Regno the best representation for their ideas. The question of voting or not at the next elections is just the pretext for the new dissensions between the two groups. It is not known of any intervention of Prince Amedeo or Prince Aimone to bring again unity among their supporters.
 
Well ignoring the screwiness between the House of Savoy and the House of Savoy-Aosta, are there any polls whatsoever about what the Italians feel about retaining their albeit flawed republic or restoring their rather complicated monarchy? Just a simple monarchy or republic opinion poll is all I'm asking for. If there isn't one that's fine it's just that I'm rather interested when it comes to figures and numbers to these sort of things.

-Frozen Royalist
 
Frozen Royalist said:
Well ignoring the screwiness between the House of Savoy and the House of Savoy-Aosta, are there any polls whatsoever about what the Italians feel about retaining their albeit flawed republic or restoring their rather complicated monarchy? Just a simple monarchy or republic opinion poll is all I'm asking for. If there isn't one that's fine it's just that I'm rather interested when it comes to figures and numbers to these sort of things.

-Frozen Royalist
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Well, what did not happen in Germany, Russia, Austria, Romania, Bulgaria, Greece, etc. was done in Italy: asking the people about the monarchy. With a convincing majority was chosen for a republic. For the rest you only need to stick out your antenna to judge the mood in Italy.

Many, many new political parties have been established with an enormous variety of core interests: from Alleanza Nationale to 5 Stelle, from Forza Italia to Lega Nord, from the Greens to the Communists, etc. The fact that no monarchist party had any substantial appeal on the electorate is the answer on your question.
 
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Duc_et_Pair said:
Well, what did not happen in Germany, Russia, Austria, Romania, Bulgaria, Greece, etc. was done in Italy: asking the people about the monarchy. With a convincing majority was chosen for a republic. For the rest you only need to stick out your antenna to judge the mood in Italy.

Many, many new political parties have been established with an enormous variety of core interests: from Alleanza Nationale to 5 Stelle, from Forza Italia to Lega Nord, from the Greens to the Communists, etc. The fact that no monarchist party had any substantial appeal on the electorate is the answer on your question.
Click to expand...

Honestly I blame the facts that Italians have banned any more referendums on the form of government, the rather ugly division between the Savoys and the Savoy-Aostas, and the fact that the media is just pro-republican on the fact that no monarchist party has made a dent. There are organizations and movements they just have to choose a faction and unite in my opinion.

-Frozen Royalist
 
Frozen Royalist said:
Honestly I blame the facts that Italians have banned any more referendums on the form of government, the rather ugly division between the Savoys and the Savoy-Aostas, and the fact that the media is just pro-republican on the fact that no monarchist party has made a dent. There are organizations and movements they just have to choose a faction and unite in my opinion.

-Frozen Royalist
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Referendums are held when the Constitution has to be changed. Only two years ago there was a referendum on the proposed constitutional changes (mainly about the composition of Parliament as well the division of powers between the State and the regions). The voters rejected this proposal.

Earlier there were two other referendums on the proposed changes of Constitution in 2001 (devolution of powers to the regions - approved) and in 2006 (more power for the Prime Minister - rejected).

So when there is a desire to turn Italy in a monarchy again, a referendum will be needed because a change of the Constitution is needed and then it is up to the Italians to vote for it. But a change begins when there is a majority in Parliament with a desire to topple the office of the President of the Republic and change it by a person who is determined by hereditary succession.

And after that, the Italians have to approve it. Preferrably not only in general vote but also in as much regions as possible. When the monarchy wins the referendum in general vote but a substantial number of regions voted against, then there is no convincing result for a stable monarchy.

See the Belgian referendum about the return of King Leopold III which the nationwide result was "Ja / Oui" (with a 58%) but.... this was only achieved in the more populated Dutch-speaking part. The result in the French-speaking part as well in the capital was a "Nee / Non". King Leopold III wisely decided to abdicate in favour of his son Prince Baudouin, to save the monarchy. Despite the (at first sight) convicing result of 58% pro his return.
 
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Duc_et_Pair said:
Well, what did not happen in Germany, Russia, Austria, Romania, Bulgaria, Greece, etc. was done in Italy: asking the people about the monarchy. With a convincing majority was chosen for a republic. For the rest you only need to stick out your antenna to judge the mood in Italy.

Many, many new political parties have been established with an enormous variety of core interests: from Alleanza Nationale to 5 Stelle, from Forza Italia to Lega Nord, from the Greens to the Communists, etc. The fact that no monarchist party had any substantial appeal on the electorate is the answer on your question.
Click to expand...

In Italy the referendum of 2946 is very controversial and probably the Monarchy won.
 
HRH Princess Maria Gabriella of Savoy (accompanied by Prof. Aldo Mola from the Consulta dei Senatori del Regno) visited the tombs of her grandparents at Vicoforte and supported the idea their remains should be there:

Vicoforte, visite illustri alle tombe dei Savoia: ieri la principessa Maria Gabriella, oggi una delegazione del Montenegro (FOTO e VIDEO)Â*-Â*Targatocn.it

Representatives of Montenegro (and of the Orthodox Metropolitan of Montenegro) visited also the Sanctuary of Vicoforte and met Prof. Aldo Mola, President of the Consulta dei Senatori del Regno.
 
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Well here is some good news, I found an organization that actually has 80,000 members as of 2017. They support the House of Savoy-Aosta with Prince Amedeo of Aosta as the King of Italy. It is known as the Italian Monarchist Union in case you guys are wondering. I know 80,000 isn't a whole lot but compared to 60 million this is some good news none the less. Also the party has a youth wing for whatever that's worth and a few members of the Italian Monarchist Union have founded the Forza Italia with Antonio Tajani being one such person, who is currently President of the European Parliament. So maybe things aren't so bleak for Italian Monarchism after all ?

-Frozen Royalist

INFO:
Home
 
Well, how about this?

Does anybody here think that the Article 139 could ever be abolished/repealed? You'd think that maybe the Lega Nord and the Five Star Movement might get rid of it considering the rebellious populism and all.

I think that Italian monarchists should just concentrate on getting rid of that article first before moving on to any other projects. So what do you guys think, could the article get removed in the foreseeable future? Or at any point in the future in that matter?

-Frozen Royalist
 
Given the current political scenarion in Italy, I don't think that there aren't much chances that art. 139 will be repealed. I'd actually be very much surprised if it was even taken in consideration by any group in Parliament.
There aren't monarchist groups in Parliament and I can't see any reason that could encourage the other political forces to edit or repeal this article.

Besides that, I can't understand why many focus their attention to this article, as if it forbade any change in the form of government.
It doesn't say at all that Italy cannot in any way change its form of government and return to be a monarchy; it simply says that such a change cannot be done by amending the current (Republican) Constitution.
The ratio behind art. 139 is that since the Italian people had chosen, with the 1946 referendum, that Italy shall have a republican form of government and since, on the same occasion, Italian people had elected a constituent assembly which had the task to write a new constitution for Italy (accordingly to the results of the referendum), then a future change of the form of government should not be implemented by an amendent of the constitution voted by the parliament of the Italian Republic (itself elected accordingly to that constitution).
Instead a change of the form of government should be decided using the same instrument that brought to the change in 1946, i.e. an institutional referendum. If the results of such a referendum where in favour of a monarchy, then a new constitution should be written and approved.
In other words, art. 139 prevents the Parliament of the Italian Republic to vote a change of the form of government, requiring instead that this change should be voted and approved directly by the Italian people through a referendum.
 
Apparently, there was a poll once done recently with 15% of the Italian population being in favor of a restoration in the nation, a lot better then my theory in the single digits if you ask me. The party in question is the Italian Monarchial Union led by Alessandro Sacchi and they support the Duke of Aosta to be the next king. Like I said earlier on this thread the party has a membership of 80,000 as of last year and in my opinion, they're at least doing better than the other organizations.

Well, you've got to admit that this is at least realistic and the party has said that they are trying to become more mainstream with a youth organization. I know Italy hasn't had a king since 1946 and all but compared to the other nations Italy has a higher percentage than Greece and Brazil.

I'm an optimistic person and as I said before, you never know what's going to happen in the future so it could happen, although it may be more likely for me to win the lottery, still, it could happen, anything can happen.:flowers:

-Frozen Royalist

Anywho the link to the website is down here, it is in Italian.

https://italiapost.it/alessandro-sacchi-presidente-umi-intervista/

The party's website:

Home
 
Actually in the article there was no mention of any poll, just Sacchi said that there are more than 15% of Italians who are monarchists. Though there is no mention about the source of this number.
 
MAfan said:
Actually in the article there was no mention of any poll, just Sacchi said that there are more than 15% of Italians who are monarchists. Though there is no mention about the source of this number.
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The source is probably Sacchi's thumb.
 
Actually there was a poll recently.

Back in July, there was, in fact, a poll on the possibility of a restoration of an Italian monarchy and it was at 15% and this was done by the Piepoli Institute. Still, this is definitely better than 0% that's for sure and only about 8% believe in Emanuele Filiberto being a good king, yeah or oh no I guess. Now we just have to find a sane, popular and rational party (whatever that looks like in this world) that supports restoration, a decent pretender (I'm still behind the Savoy-Aosta because, in my opinion, they look relatively decent) that is also serious about the role/job as King/Queen (You never know) of Italy, a change of public attitude and a majority in favor, and we'll be in business.

I like to remain positive and think that maybe a restoration will take place somewhere in the future. I don't know, maybe further chaos or a series of disastrous leader after disastrous leader (and I mean really really disastrous, like causing the nation to be on the brink of collapse, a botched war or just about anything terrible) will finally see some workable results, that's what it takes these days for radical change apparently (I swear I'm not far-right, I'm actually center-left, permanently kick me out of the forum for that, maybe you won't have any headaches from me anymore). Still, at least 15% is something to work with, that's a few points behind Romania and basically 3 out of 20 people in favor, we just need to get that number from 3 to at least 11, which would be 55% or more in favor. Any ideas, anybody?

-Frozen Royalist

P.S. Sorry for the silence, I still feel like I was an idiot on this entire website, I just feel like I made a fool of myself and put my foot in my mouth too many times, so to say. I plan on just sticking with reporting unreported/unknown restoration polls from here on out and maybe giving my two cents. Maybe I could make some popular pro-monarchist games for Italy, I am studying to become a video game designer and programmer after all so that could make a difference, maybe. Anywho, link to the article is down below

https://www.liberoquotidiano.it/new...onarchico-15-per-cento-sondaggio-piepoli.html
 
So, Emanuele Filiberto blames the past presidents of the Italian Republic because, in his opinion, they have meddled too much with politics instead of being impartial and super partes; for the same reason, he praises monarchies because the monarch remains impartial and super partes as an Head of State should be.
At the same time, he would be in favour of creating a monarchist party and run at general elections.
Isn't it a bit contradictory? The would-be-King would in this way simply meddle with politics.
This is the reason why his late grandfather King Umberto II always opposed to the idea of creating a monarchist party.
 
MAfan said:
So, Emanuele Filiberto blames the past presidents of the Italian Republic because, in his opinion, they have meddled too much with politics instead of being impartial and super partes; for the same reason, he praises monarchies because the monarch remains impartial and super partes as an Head of State should be.
At the same time, he would be in favour of creating a monarchist party and run at general elections.
Isn't it a bit contradictory? The would-be-King would in this way simply meddle with politics.
This is the reason why his late grandfather King Umberto II always opposed to the idea of creating a monarchist party.
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:confused: , your guess is as good as mine. At this point, all we can do is just sigh, wait for a pretender that actually has a clue and a strategy, and for public attitude towards Italy being a constitutional monarchy to become more positive.

-Frozen Royalist

P.S. I'm not giving up yet
 
Frozen Royalist said:
I like to remain positive and think that maybe a restoration will take place somewhere in the future. I don't know, maybe further chaos or a series of disastrous leader after disastrous leader (and I mean really really disastrous, like causing the nation to be on the brink of collapse, a botched war or just about anything terrible) will finally see some workable results, that's what it takes these days for radical change apparently
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My opinion: if it would take events of this kind to turn a country into a monarchy, i prefer the country to stay a republic.
 
Lee-Z said:
My opinion: if it would take events of this kind to turn a country into a monarchy, i prefer the country to stay a republic.
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Greece has shown that even a collapse of unseen magnitude, a complete meltdown of the state and its institutions, have not led to any voice calling for a monarchy.

And Italy, a big country, the third economy of the Eurozone, is even more unlikely than Greece, in my assessment. The best the Savoias can hope for is an arrangement à la Romania, in which the head of the historical royal dynasty has a formal recognition and a representative or ceremonial role inside the existing constitutional framework.
 
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Just a Repeat from October

This is just an article from Royal Central just talking about the information I posted earlier with the 15% approval poll. You guys know the rest. If only they could get something similar to Romania then we'd have something more to work with, they more or less have the same approval rating anyway. From the comments I've read, there are only a couple as of now, they've generally been positive but then again these aren't likely Italian monarchists but just random monarchists in general.

Still, mark my words, something good will happen with constitutional monarchism in the future, I can feel it. That or maybe it's just me getting over excited about my future career in video games, I don't know.:D
But still, let's not give up!

-Frozen Royalist

Prince Emanuele of Savoy calls for the restoration of Italy’s monarchy – Royal Central
 
The Italian Monarchist Union, a pro-royalist party in Italy with 80,000+ members that also supports Prince Amedeo of Aosta as the King of Italy, actually currently has a seat in the Chamber of Deputies. Although the UMI member was elected as a member as part of the Lega Nord but still.

Considering that the Lega Nord is a populist and slightly far-right movement in Italy, this doesn't exactly spell good news for the pro-Amedeo monarchists does it?

-Frozen Royalist
 
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That means that Duc Amadeo's Son and Grandson will not be Heirs anymore.
 
The Duke of Aosta and his supporters can suck it up for all I care.

Anyway, I still think it changes nothing to the very low chances of restoration. Most Italians consider the House of Savoy as a bunch of delusional, washed-up has-beens in need of reality checks that their past "glory" is no more. Not helping matters is that King Victor Emmanuel III let Benito Mussolini run Italy as a totalitarian state. Is it any wonder that Italians are still angry at them?

In the unlikely event that Italy becomes a monarchy again, it should establish a whole new dynasty (my money's on the Agnelli family) rather than bring back the House of Savoy.
 
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