The Royal Family Order (RFO) and other Royal Orders and Decorations 1: Ending 2022


If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
Status
Not open for further replies.
Yes, she did but Catherine received the Dame Grand Cross of the RVO {GCVO} which is the highest "rank" of the order. One of the spokesmen on the BBC stated that this order is now one step higher than even Prince Harry. Since I actually don't know the pecking order to all these orders and medals I am asking all on here if this is actually true or a bit of fake news to stir the pot between the two families by the media. Thank you in advance.

Yes, it is true. Harry is a Knight Commander in the RVO, which is a lower grade than a Knight/Dame Grand Cross.

Visually you can see the difference by the fact that Harry wears the badge of the order on a necklace whereas Kate will wear it attached to a sash .
 
Last edited:
However Andrew and Edward are both holders of GCVO's (as is Anne) and it's almost certain in my opinion, that Harry as a younger son of the sovereign will end up with the GC too.
 
However Andrew and Edward are both holders of GCVO's (as is Anne) and it's almost certain in my opinion, that Harry as a younger son of the sovereign will end up with the GC too.

H may well do in the future, but I think he was given this as he was unlikely to get the Garter for some time.
 
Yes, it is true. Harry is a Knight Commander in the RVO., which is a lower rank than a Knight/Dame Grand Cross.

Visually you can see the difference by the fact that Harry wears the badge of the order on a necklace whereas Kate will wear it attached to a sash .

To tell you the truth, I was surprised Harry got the lower grade of the Victorian Order. With his military service, one would’ve thought he would’ve been awarded with Knight Grand Cross or even with the Garter. Even the royal reporters was expecting this.
 
I'm sure Harry will get the GC at some point. Prince Michael started with the same grade as Harry and was then promoted to GC.
 
H may well do in the future, but I think he was given this as he was unlikely to get the Garter for some time.

Andrew and Edward didn’t get the Garter right away either.

Having said that, I think Harry might get it earlier when Charles is King.
 
Most Royals start out with a lower grade and then work themselves up.

The Duke of Edinburgh, The Princess Royal, The Duchess of Cornwall and The Duchess of Cambridge all received the GCVO right out the gate.
 
I'm sure Harry will get the GC at some point. Prince Michael started with the same grade as Harry and was then promoted to GC.

Oh, I know he will. He’s gonna get the Garter too. Investitures will be likely happening leading up to Charles’s future Coronation. Orders are worn during the Coronation.
 
Its pretty common for upper staff of senior royals, when they leave their post, to receive the honor. Michael Peat (private secretary to Charles) and Geidt (secretary to the queen) both received knight grand cross when they left. Natasha received the MVO, the lowest rank but still a honor. Natasha has been with the royal household since 2007.

Have you seen an announcement that Natasha is leaving KP? I was under the impression she is only on maternity leave.
 
I believe my girl (Catherine) was invested as Dame Grand Cross of the Royal Victorian Order today.
 
I believe my girl (Catherine) was invested as Dame Grand Cross of the Royal Victorian Order today.


Pity that no photos were released from the investiture ceremony today.
 
Pity that no photos were released from the investiture ceremony today.

I would’ve been great to see a bit of the ceremony and some pics of the reception back at Windsor. I’m so proud of her though. She deserved her knighthood.
 
Was there actually an investiture ceremony? Alastair Bruce's opinion on whether that was likely was "I fear that the normal way these things are done in that family is very informal. The box will probably be left open on a table and The Queen will say “there we are” and that’s that."

I don't think the service involved a formal installation in a stall like at the Garter service, simply because the stalls are not at St. George's Chapel, but at the comparatively tiny Savoy Chapel in London, which is much too small to host any major services. Catherine will have a stall there (I've seen a picture of Sophie's), but who knows if she'll ever get to use it.

Edit: I don't think Catherine was even at the service. The court circular says:

"The Queen, Sovereign of the Order, accompanied by The Princess Royal, Grand Master, was present this morning at a Service of the Royal Victorian Order held in St George’s Chapel, Windsor Castle.

The Duke of York, The Earl of Wessex, The Duke and Duchess of Gloucester, The Duke of Kent, Prince Michael of Kent, Princess Alexandra, the Hon Lady Ogilvy and Vice-Admiral Sir Tim Laurence were also present."

Likewise, Camilla wasn't at this one or the last one (which would have been the first after her appointment). She was, however, received privately by the Queen about a month after the appointment in 2012, and "invested...with the Insignia of a Dame Grand Cross of the Royal Victorian Order." I suspect that means given a box with the insignia in it, as Alastair Bruce describes. The same language was used for John Major's audience after he received the Garter, and it was filmed for a documentary. She gave him the accolade, then directed his attention to the open boxes on a table. Presumably he also received the more formal investiture with the mantle, etc. before the service in June, but I don't think that kind of tradition exists for any of the other orders (perhaps the Thistle).
 
Last edited:
Indeed somewhat peculiar that Catherine did not attend the service. Maybe she first needs to be formally invested (given the insignia) and the time between appointment and service was too short (and not deemed that important otherwise they surely could have arranged it).
 
Or we just shouldn't expect universal attendance. I'm looking at the Court Circular entries back to 1999, and assuming they're correct, Camilla hasn't gone either time since her appointment, and Harry wasn't there this time either. Sophie has gone in the past but not this time (or is she still traveling?). Andrew didn't go to any (unless he went before 1999) until he was a GCVO, but Edward attended in 2003 when he was a CVO (the earliest one I have access to).
 
Last edited:
Indeed somewhat peculiar that Catherine did not attend the service. Maybe she first needs to be formally invested (given the insignia) and the time between appointment and service was too short (and not deemed that important otherwise they surely could have arranged it).

From what I’m now understanding, there’s no formal Investiture into the Order. If there was, it’s been changed. The Queen just privately award you the Order and not everyone have to attend the service. I thought the same process for being Invested into the Garter applied to the Royal Victorian Order, but that’s not fully the case.

So the first time we’ll see Catherine in her Victorian Order insignia is during the US State Visit, if she and William are going.
 
As it should be!

Do we think Camilla will soon get the Garter, or will she have to wait for Charles to appoint her?

I think that it is highly unlikely that HM will bestow the Garter on Camilla - she is much more likely to receive it from her husband once he is King.

HM has only bestowed the Garter to member of the Blood Royal.
HRH The Prince of Wales
HRH The Duke of Kent
HRH The Princess Royal
HRH The Duke of Gloucester
HRH Princess Alexandra of Kent
HRH The Duke of York
HRH The Earl of Wessex
HRH The Duke of Cambridge

The odd ones out - so to speak - have been HRH The Princess Margaret and HRH Prince Michael of Kent whose highest honours are the GCVO.

Camilla is only married into the BRF. The highest honour received for those married into the family has been the GCVO
HRH The Duchess of Kent
HRH The Duchess of Gloucester
HRH The Countess of Wessex
HRH The Duchess of Cornwall
HRH The Duchess of Cambridge

Diana, Princess of Wales' only British honour was the QEII RFO and HRH Princess Michael of Kent and Sarah, Duchess of York have no British honour.

Of the other spouses, Cpt Mark Phillips received the CVO in 1974.
Vice Admiral Sir Timothy Laurence was bestowed the KCVO in 2011.
The 1st Earl of Snowdon received his GCVO in 1969.
 
I think that it is highly unlikely that HM will bestow the Garter on Camilla - she is much more likely to receive it from her husband once he is King.

HM has only bestowed the Garter to member of the Blood Royal.
HRH The Prince of Wales
HRH The Duke of Kent
HRH The Princess Royal
HRH The Duke of Gloucester
HRH Princess Alexandra of Kent
HRH The Duke of York
HRH The Earl of Wessex
HRH The Duke of Cambridge

The odd ones out - so to speak - have been HRH The Princess Margaret and HRH Prince Michael of Kent whose highest honours are the GCVO.

You could also argue that the odd ones out are princess Alexandra of Kent and the Princess Royal. All other recipients are royal dukes (or their equivalent). Elizabeth's aunt (Mary, The Princess royal) for example never received the order. Her highest order was GCVO as well.

Next to Camilla, I would expect the duke of Sussex to receive the Order from Charles as well. Two appointments that I am sure Charles would be pleased to make.
 
Last edited:
I believe Camilla will receive the Garter upon Charles’s succession. Leading up to the Coronation. That’s keeping in the pattern of previous Consorts.

Those who don’t currently have knighthoods will very likely be receiving them during the accession or leading up to the next Coronation.
 
Last edited:
CENTRAL CHANCERY OF THE ORDERS OF KNIGHTHOOD

St. James’s Palace, London S.W.1.

10 May 2019

THE QUEEN has been graciously pleased to give orders for the following appointment in the Royal Victorian Order:

GCVO

To be a Dame Grand Cross:

Her Royal Highness THE DUCHESS OF CAMBRIDGE

(To be dated 29 April 2019)

 
Last edited:
The Duchess of Cambridge was received by The Queen when Her Majesty invested her with the Insignia of a Dame Grand Cross of the Royal Victorian Order.

Court Circular || 21 May 2019
 
I know William must be so proud of his wife. It must’ve been a big moment for Catherine on being invested by her grandmother-in-law, The Queen.
 
Looks like an interesting event.

EF0LPlgXUAcHjZs
 
Is there an specific thread to discuss national Commonwealth decorations like the Order of Canada or the Order of Australia? Technically, I guess they are "royal orders" too since they are created and regulated by Letters Patent issued by HM The Queen although they are administered locally by the Governor Generals as chancellors of the orders.
 
Wasn't Princess Margaret in the Order of the Garter?
 
Order of the Garter: a dynastic order or a Crown order?

The Most Noble Order of the Garter, established in 1348 by King Edward III, is often described in the United Kingdom as a "dynastic order" since appointments to the order are in the personal gift of the Sovereign, in contrast to other British orders of knighthood like the Most Honourable Order of the Bath, the Most Distingushed Order of St Michael and St George, or the Most Excellent Order of the British Empire, where appointments are by ministerial recommendation to the Queen.

However, I find the term "dynastic order" somewhat misleading when applied to the Order of the Garter since the order itself is not linked to a particular "dynasty" or royal house, but rather to a particular crown or throne. Specifically, the Order of the Garter was originally linked to the Kings of England and, presently, to their legal successors, the monarchs of the United Kingdom.

When the British Crown, for example, passed to the Hanoverians, George I became Sovereign of the Order of the Garter even though the titular head of the former dynasty that previously held the sovereignty of the order, i.e. the Stuarts, was still alive. Likewise, both Queen Victoria and King Edward VII, the latter of the House of Saxe-Coburg and Gotha (now Windsor), inherited the sovereignty of the Order of the Garter upon ascending the British throne, even though the headship of the House of Hanover lay with the Kings of Hanover descending from the Duke of Cumberland.

Should we change then the designation "dynastic order" to distinguish between "Crown orders" like IMHO the Order of the Garter (tied to the holder of the Crown of England) or the Order of the Thistle (tied to the holder of the Crown of Scotland), and actual "house orders" like, perhaps, the Royal Victorian Order, which is an order of House of Windsor ?
 
Last edited:
The Royal Family Order (RFO) and other Royal Orders and Decorations

It' time to close this thread. You will find the new one here.
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top Bottom