Memories of Diana

[Denville]

I woudlnt go for that scenario but I think that her popularity was declining.. not dramatically but there was a steady move towards less popular. Charles was still pretty unpopular,..but given that Diana had been loved by many and was sympathised with, I think it wasn't a good sign that the Prss had gone cooler on her, and a lot of the public were I think getting fed up. Some still sympathised, esp women but a lot of people were thinking that she had complained about C and the RF but she herself had her faults and wasn't really much better.. if at all. She did try to get into the news, whiel complaining that the Press were always chasing her and gave her no peace. She fought with Charles, tried to get notice from the Press and take it from him.. and it seemed as if the Dodi affair was to "show" Charles and the RF that she now had a very rich boyfriend who was happy to be seen in public with her and who was able to take her on lots of sunny holidays..
So people were beginning to feel - "Ok she had a bad time but she's divorced, she has a good life, financially, she has comfort and luxury beyond what most women have.. so why si she always complaining or pushing her life into the papers, while still sayng that the Press are cruel to her? She's got out of the RF now, so why not lead a quiet life, do a bit of charity work and not be in the Press every few days..,."

I don't think that she was unhappy enough to kill herself but she was not as happy as she had maybe hoped to be when she got out of the RF, and she was perhaps floundering around, tryng to find a new role but not able to settle into anything. So she got involved iwht Dodi and whether she cared much for him or not, she was clearly anxious to show the world that she was with a new man...
I think that had she lived, as time went on the press would be bored with the whole story, and so would the public, so she would not have had the same press chasing her etc.. and Im not sure If she would have reacted well to that. I think she had had that sort of attention for a long long time.. and while it stressed her it also made up for the problems in her life.. but if that went away, would she have been happy?

 

[Mermaid1962]

Diana had my sympathy up until the Panorama interview. Until then, I gave her the benefit of the doubt about her affairs and active tarnishing of Prince Charles' image as a husband and father. But then when she admitted to the affair with Hewitt, I realized that the other stories could have been true as well. There were suspicions that she had cooperated with Her True Story, even if it wasn't known that she had pretty much written the book. But once the same kind of information started coming from her own mouth, it became clear that she was willing to talk to anyone about highly personal things and scewering people's reputations while doing it. I guess that's when my rose-coloured glasses feel off. I'll always have fond memories of the young Princess of Wales, but I'm less interested in the later years of her life.

But I think that during the War of the waleses she went on wth her leaking stories and burnishing her image, a a bit too much, and the public began to get fed up wth her... and this was at a time when Charles was very unpopular.. so she had lost some of the goodwill that she'd built up....

 

[Ista]

Diana had my sympathy up until the Panorama interview. Until then, I gave her the benefit of the doubt about her affairs and active tarnishing of Prince Charles' image as a husband and father. But then when she admitted to the affair with Hewitt, I realized that the other stories could have been true as well. There were suspicions that she had cooperated with Her True Story, even if it wasn't known that she had pretty much written the book. But once the same kind of information started coming from her own mouth, it became clear that she was willing to talk to anyone about highly personal things and scewering people's reputations while doing it. I guess that's when my rose-coloured glasses feel off. I'll always have fond memories of the young Princess of Wales, but I'm less interested in the later years of her life.

I think this was true, to a degree, for me as well.There was something about that interview: it seemed staged, the things she said about Charles, her willingness to air the dirty laundry. The whole thing was undignified.

Whether the Panorama interview, on its own, changed people's minds, I think it was at that point when there was a perceptible shift in the press and public image of her.

 

[Mermaid1962]

If I remember correctly, people responded well to her interview initially but then their attitudes changed later on.

 

[Pranter]

There is fault to go around in that marriage and those from the outside as well. I think most people accept that.


LaRae

 

[Denville]

If I remember correctly, people responded well to her interview initially but then their attitudes changed later on.

Who exactly? Do you mean the general public>

 

[Mermaid1962]

Yes. Sorry I wasn't clearer. The initial polls were favourable. But after that, her popularity ratings dropped IIRC. The "boost" was temporary. After the divorce, I think that she was at her best during the anti-landmine campaign. The only other things I really remember during 1996-1997 were the sale of her dresses and the vacationing that summer. She seemed to be endlessly travelling.

Certainly, yes. I find that there aren't that many die-hard Diana fans now who blame Charles for everything.

There is fault to go around in that marriage and those from the outside as well. I think most people accept that.


LaRae

 

[Denville]

Certainly, yes. I find that there aren't that many die-hard Diana fans now who blame Charles for everything.

Actualy there are some.. and nothing is going to change their minds...

 

[Curryong]

Quite a few people feel that Charles, being a man in his thirties, should have had the intestinal fortitude to not marry someone he didn't love simply because of public pressure. While taking into account the immense pressure I cannot understand the weakness of will that led to that decision. What a mountain of misery could have been avoided if he had just told his parents early on that he didn't love Diana and couldn't be happy with her. We know now that he was beset by doubts.

Gallup Poll reactions by the British and US public to Diana's death. 50% of British adults felt upset by her death, while over 40% more were 'saddened'. That's a huge majority of the population. I think it shows that affection for Diana was retained by Britons after the separation and after the divorce, no matter what negative articles came out in those last two years. I'd like to get a hold of Gallup poll results for her between 1994 and '96 actually. I think it would be interesting.

https://news.gallup.com/poll/4345/gallup-polls-britain-us-record-public-reaction-dianas-death.aspx

 

[Denville]

Of course there was going to be a certain shock and sadness, when a woman of 36 was killed in a car accident, esp one that was caused partly by being chased by the Press….

 

[Curryong]

Yes of course, but there has been a certain perception in this thread and others that because Diana received a lot of negative press and media attention in the last year or so of her life that sections of the British population fell out of love with her and started to think more critically of her.

While that might be true of some observers, if there had been such a sea change with regard to Diana among ordinary Britons in 1994-96, then you would expect less of a reaction to her death a year later than what actually occurred and that would be reflected in the Gallup Poll figures above. As I said before I can't find approval ratings taken by Gallup for Diana in 1994-96. That would give more of a true picture than anecdotal stuff.

 

[O-H Anglophile]

Yes of course, but there has been a certain perception in this thread and others that because Diana received a lot of negative press and media attention in the last year or so of her life that sections of the British population fell out of love with her and started to think more critically of her.

While that might be true of some observers, if there had been such a sea change with regard to Diana among ordinary Britons in 1994-96, then you would expect less of a reaction to her death a year later than what actually occurred and that would be reflected in the Gallup Poll figures above. As I said before I can't find approval ratings taken by Gallup for Diana in 1994-96. That would give more of a true picture than anecdotal stuff.

I think it is perfectly reasonable for people to have begun to be more critical of or even somewhat disillusioned with some of Diana's behavior during the last few years of her life and still have been shocked, horrified and deeply saddened by her sudden death. She was only 36, had two young sons and died in an automobile accident that need not have been fatal or even have happened.

 

[Ista]

Yes of course, but there has been a certain perception in this thread and others that because Diana received a lot of negative press and media attention in the last year or so of her life that sections of the British population fell out of love with her and started to think more critically of her.

While that might be true of some observers, if there had been such a sea change with regard to Diana among ordinary Britons in 1994-96, then you would expect less of a reaction to her death a year later than what actually occurred and that would be reflected in the Gallup Poll figures above. As I said before I can't find approval ratings taken by Gallup for Diana in 1994-96. That would give more of a true picture than anecdotal stuff.

Rather than falling out of love with Diana, I think it might have been more of a case of seeing her as human rather than as some mythical cross between a fairy princess and a saint. She had polished and manipulated her image, and tarnished Charles's (with some help from him) for years before the Panorama interview. I don't think there was an overnight switch to falling out of love with her, I just think that there was a bit more nuance, and a bit more willingness to consider the idea that her version of events might, just possibly, not be the full and complete picture.

 

[Osipi]

I think this nails it right on the head. If Diana's public profile had been more discreet and all people saw were the newspaper recounting of her work and her glossy pictures in magazines, it would only be the image of Diana presented that people came to know and love and admire and remembered. In this respect, she was larger than life.

Gradually, as the years passed, for good or bad, we saw the human side of Diana and I think more people actually identified with the human Diana than the fairy tale image of her. In her own way, Diana allowed people inside her life in the royal fishbowl. The unhappy marriage, the struggle with bulimia, and the ins and outs of life that many of us have struggled with from time to time.

The story of Diana evolved over the years and ended tragically. People remember what affected them most and what they identified with most.

 

[Denville]

I think it is perfectly reasonable for people to have begun to be more critical of or even somewhat disillusioned with some of Diana's behavior during the last few years of her life and still have been shocked, horrified and deeply saddened by her sudden death. She was only 36, had two young sons and died in an automobile accident that need not have been fatal or even have happened.

I agree. I thnk that there was a bit of slow burn towards being more critical of her, in the last few years. She had had a lot of sympathy particularly from women, at first but as she drew apart from the RF, and was seen as someone who was rather at odds with them..and seemed to be always in the papers, "looking for notice' as my mum wold say, while protesting that she didn't want to be noticed.. there was a cooling off. She put herself into the papers but when you do that, you can't conrol them.. so stories emerged that were not flattering to her, such as her affairs with married men..
but I don't think people violently disliked her (apart from a few) and mostly when she died, a lot of people were shocked and grieved and felt that it had all been so unnecessary, that she had been in a bad place but now had no chance to get her life back on track and it was tragic...

 

[Denville]

Yes of course, but there has been a certain perception in this thread and others that because Diana received a lot of negative press and media attention in the last year or so of her life that sections of the British population fell out of love with her and started to think more critically of her.

While that might be true of some observers, if there had been such a sea change with regard to Diana among ordinary Britons in 1994-96, then you would expect less of a reaction to her death a year later than what actually occurred and that would be reflected in the Gallup Poll figures above. As I said before I can't find approval ratings taken by Gallup for Diana in 1994-96. That would give more of a true picture than anecdotal stuff.

I don't think the press would have been so much more negative about her, if there was not a perception of a cooling of feeling towards her. Even in the days of glory, while she was usually lauded by the Press, there were still journalists who were crticial and some of the public were indifferent at best..
And I think there was a bit of a sea change in the last years. She got more critical press, and I wonder if, as she got a bit older, and the RF recovered from the debacle of the marriage and divorce, she might have gotten more negativity or just indifference from the Press. Depending on what she did wit her post divorce life. If she had been doing a lot of holidaying and dating men who were seen as unsuitable.. ...Or if she was seen still as "trying to get into the papers while then saying that the papers made her life hell"....

 

[O-H Anglophile]

I agree. I thnk that there was a bit of slow burn towards being more critical of her, in the last few years. She had had a lot of sympathy particularly from women, at first but as she drew apart from the RF, and was seen as someone who was rather at odds with them..and seemed to be always in the papers, "looking for notice' as my mum wold say, while protesting that she didn't want to be noticed.. there was a cooling off. She put herself into the papers but when you do that, you can't conrol them.. so stories emerged that were not flattering to her, such as her affairs with married men..
but I don't think people violently disliked her (apart from a few) and mostly when she died, a lot of people were shocked and grieved and felt that it had all been so unnecessary, that she had been in a bad place but now had no chance to get her life back on track and it was tragic...

I think people were willing to overlook that Diana had an affair with Hewitt as they saw that as Diana looking for the love she wasn’t getting from her husband. But then talking about on TV was rather vulgar.

But I think the Will Carling and Oliver Hoare stories were detrimental to Diana-it was tacky to complain about Camilla but then do the same thing yourself and have an affair with a married man and in Hoare’s case practically stalk him.

And the summer romance with Dodi was just odd to a lot of people. He didn’t seem to be husband material with the rumors of his drug use, poor work history and abandoned fiancée but she was flaunting him and creating some of the paparazzi interest herself. Why else say to the press “you are going to get a big surprise with the next thing I do.”

 

[Denville]

True, I think that it wasn't entirely her fault but Diana had become stuck in the mode of looking to the press too much. Its not surprising. The press were there, after her, and she was pressured and stressed out by them.. but she got addicted to looking to them for validation. I think that she got used to the holidays with the press chasing her, looking for a shot of her with the new boyfriend .and she half wanted them to go away but half wanted them to "notice and get a surprise" wit the next thing she did. She probably had no real plan, of some "thing to do" but was just addicted to "making a splash" and appearing on the front page.

 

[Kitty1224]

So it’s true her popularity and love dipped around the Panaorma interview?

 

[Curryong]

Kitty, look at #297 in this thread, and you will see the Gallup poll results taken just after the Panorama interview. Generally favourable. It's a pity I can't find any popularity polls for Diana for later that year and the next, as I have a feeling they might surprise those who feel her popularity took a hit. I was there in England then and I couldn't feel it, though there was certainly negative press coverage.

That is the British tabloid press though--'We're bored with your narrative now you're no longer our fairy princess so down you come from the mountain top','We made you, we can destroy you and will, bit by bit' etc etc. I don't think though that ordinary peoples' feeling for Diana changed within weeks, months, or even years after Panorama.

Feeling of average female member of public laying flowers at KP before the funeral? 'I've gone off you for the past year and a half because I've read you've holidayed on yachts, acted silly at times and had Dodi al Fayed as a boyfriend. But NOW I love you because you died tragically'. I don't think so!


It's my belief that millions of people kept Diana in their hearts, had done so since she first appeared on the scene in 1981, and the reactions of people all over the world to her death shocked and amazed the establishment, the BRF and yes, journalists in the tabloid press, the people that had been calling her all the names under the sun for months.

And I'd like to know how many magazines were still sold around the world with Diana on the cover in that last year or two of her life. Impossible to know probably but in the millions I'd say.

 

[MARG]

I think the opinion was also generational. To be honest, the nastiness only started with Panorama. Diana found she no longer had to be discrete and people were shocked as ex after ex sold her out and she wasn't the perfect princess anymore. The week before her death the media was howling about her conspicuous affairs and Dodi was seen as the ultimate Playboy who flaunted his relationship with Diana while he still had an actual fiance. But then, many of Diana's lovers were married and she didn't seem to care about their wives which was pretty shocking.

It was all pretty ugly and the media, both the DM, et. al. and the serious papers were disapproving. If I remember rightly, questions were evrn raised in the House condemning her lifestyle choices.

A couple of weeks later she died and overnight she went from virtual slut to a saint on the front page of every paper and magazine.

 

[Kitty1224]

Kitty, look at #297 in this thread, and you will see the Gallup poll results taken just after the Panorama interview. Generally favourable. It's a pity I can't find any popularity polls for Diana for later that year and the next, as I have a feeling they might surprise those who feel her popularity took a hit. I was there in England then and I couldn't feel it, though there was certainly negative press coverage.

That is the British tabloid press though--'We're bored with your narrative now you're no longer our fairy princess so down you come from the mountain top','We made you, we can destroy you and will, bit by bit' etc etc. I don't think though that ordinary peoples' feeling for Diana changed within weeks, months, or even years after Panorama.

Feeling of average female member of public laying flowers at KP before the funeral? 'I've gone off you for the past year and a half because I've read you've holidayed on yachts, acted silly at times and had Dodi al Fayed as a boyfriend. But NOW I love you because you died tragically'. I don't think so!


It's my belief that millions of people kept Diana in their hearts, had done so since she first appeared on the scene in 1981, and the reactions of people all over the world to her death shocked and amazed the establishment, the BRF and yes, journalists in the tabloid press, the people that had been calling her all the names under the sun for months.

And I'd like to know how many magazines were still sold around the world with Diana on the cover in that last year or two of her life. Impossible to know probably but in the millions I'd say.

This is a bit out there but why do you think she was besides The Queen the only royal woman who was loved by billions?

 

[Denville]

I woudlnt say the queen is greatly loved, respected and admired but she's not IMO loved. Diana just had an X factor and people did care for her..

 

[Kitty1224]

I woudlnt say the queen is greatly loved, respected and admired but she's not IMO loved. Diana just had an X factor and people did care for her..

I think The Queen is loved respected and admired. So many people really want to meet her. Yeah you are right Diana had an X factor that’s why she Became loved.

 

[Denville]

Who wants to meet her, exactly? She is popular, now as an old lady, but I don't think that she was ever a big draw the way that Diana was...

 

[Kitty1224]

Who wants to meet her, exactly? She is popular, now as an old lady, but I don't think that she was ever a big draw the way that Diana was...

If you had the opportunity to meet The Queen would you pass up that opportunity?
So are you saying the younger royals: William, Kate, Harry and Meghan can never be a big of a draw and loved universally like Diana was?

 

[Denville]

Nobody is loved universally.. but I dotn think that the queen, or the younger royals, have the drawing power of Diana in her heyday...

 

[Kitty1224]

Nobody is loved universally.. but I dotn think that the queen, or the younger royals, have the drawing power of Diana in her heyday...

Okay then tell me what and why she had the drawing power?

 

[Ista]

If you had the opportunity to meet The Queen would you pass up that opportunity?
So are you saying the younger royals: William, Kate, Harry and Meghan can never be a big of a draw and loved universally like Diana was?

I don't know that Diana was universally loved, really. She had incredible charisma, and she was very successful in crafting an image that fascinated people, but fascination is not the same thing as love. I think some people were in love with the fantasy of Diana--a lot of people, actually. But again, fantasy is not the same as the real person, who was much more complex, and, in my opinion, much more interesting than the cardboard saint/fairy princess.

I also think that William, Kate, Harry and Meghan are working very hard to not be the fantasy figures that Diana became. Diana gave a up bits and pieces of her privacy to craft her image. William, Kate, and the Sussexes seem determined not to do that.

 

[CyrilVladisla]

Every time I see Lady Diana go up the steps of St. Paul's Cathedral on her father's arm and later down the aisle, I think that she was a beacon of strength for her father. Many do not realize that Earl Spencer had been previously ill.