Kaiser Wilhelm II (1859-1941) and Family

[Blog Real]

Prince Wilhelm, in Prussian uniform, in 1874.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/db/1874_in_altpreußischer_Uniform.jpg

 

[CyrilVladisla]

The life of Emperor Wilhelm II in exile

 

[Prinsara]

Theodore Roosevelt stayed with nearly every European monarch during a tour in 1910, and has quite a bunch of interesting observations. I thought his description of Wilhelm pretty much covered it:

He has a real sense of humor, as is shown by the comments he wrote on the backs of the photographs he sent me, which had been taken of us while we were at the maneuvers by his court photographer. Moreover, he is entirely modest about the many things which he thoroughly knows, such as the industrial and military conditions and needs of Germany. But he lacks all sense of humor when he comes to discuss the things that he does not know, and which he prides himself upon knowing, such as matters artistic and scientific.

 

[SirGyamfi1]

Wilhelm's cousin Victoria Milford Haven in an interesting paragraph of her memoir:


Either Victoria is wildly divergent from the current prevailing view or she has a point and the relationship between her aunt and Wilhelm was not always so painfully and pathologically bad. (In either case, Bismarck didn't help.)

...Of course a few sentences later she does note Aunt Vicky saying several decades later "William has no heart."

I don’t trust what she said. The Battenbergs weren’t liked by the Kaiser , but Empress Vicky liked them. We all know that Vicky wasn’t necessarily the best mother to him at times, even though Wilhelm could be problematic. I think the Kaiser and his mother had a love/hate relationship regardless of Bismarck. In any case, there were major differences between the Kaiser and Bismarck even though both men were interested in Prussia’s dominance.

 

[SirGyamfi1]

Yep, it would definitely been better! But Bismarck was already really old (75!!!), when he had to leave office,so...

Another problem was that Bismarck didn’t often discuss plans and strategies with other junkers and politicians so he left no room for a good successor of the chancellorship. It wasn’t just Wilhelm’s lack of diplomatic thinking like Bismarck. Also I don’t think Bismarck trusted the other junkers or politicians that much too think of a good successor.

 

[SirGyamfi1]

Theodore Roosevelt stayed with nearly every European monarch during a tour in 1910, and has quite a bunch of interesting observations. I thought his description of Wilhelm pretty much covered it:

Which book did you get this from?

 

[SirGyamfi1]

'The Kaiser's daughter' would be interesting. Strange how Victoria Luise married an heir to a German Royal House that had chosen to back the wrong horse against an ascendant Prussia, and Wilhelm, her father, had married a daughter of a House that had also come a cropper because of Prussia. Her wedding was the last great gathering of European royalty before the outbreak of WW1. What a sight it must have been!

Victoria Luise was his favorite so that made it easy. Plus her husband had to agree to swear loyalty to the Kaiser in order to marry her which did only because he loved her.

 

[SirGyamfi1]

I know that his mother never really approved. I also think I read somewhere that he had the support of Bismark in the marriage. It also makes the fuss over his sisters wish to marry a battenberg a bit hypocritcal.

Not really, the marriage was to solve the Schleswig-Holstein issue so Bismarck gave way to the marriage. Plus the Battenbergs in Bulgaria had issues with the Russian Tsar and Bismarck didn’t want to offend him so kiboshed the idea of a marriage between the Kaiser’s sister and Alexander of Battenberg. It wasn’t just Kaiser Wilhelm II who was against the marriage, Kaiser Wilhelm and Bismarck were also against it. It was more of a diplomatic issue than just the poor morganatic Battenbergs.

 

[SirGyamfi1]

I have read that book as well as another one on Willy.

It seems like Princess Vicky (Will's mother) also had high hopes for the marriage. Prior to the marriage she thought that Dona was a likable enough person and I believe supported the marriage. It wasn't until after they got married that Dona did a 180 and started to treat Vicky with the same disdain as Willy.

Honestly, some people are just born unhappy. I don't think anything would have pleased him. And although Serge was not a prize, I think Ella did the right thing. But one does question if Willy would have been so favor of a war in Europe.

They had some good moments and Dona was sometimes in Empress Vicky’s company when her husband was away, but she did not allow her children to be any where alone with Vicky to keep her liberal tendencies away from her children.

 

[SirGyamfi1]

When Frederich married Victoria, Bismark commented that he liked everything about the bride except that she was British. Victoria certainly had the personality and education to be a Queen/Empress, but Bismark did not like having even more British influence in Prussia, especially since there was already British hegemony everywhere.

Vicky didn’t fit the box when it came to Prussian court life so Bismarck didn’t like her. Her mother-in-law had similar political leanings like her.

 

[CyrilVladisla]

The children of Emperor Wilhelm II

 

[Prinsara]

It never stops being mildly amusing that of all his descendants, the only ones to get thrones have been his granddaughter, great-grandaughter (and now great-great-grandson... and future great-great-great-grandaughter), all through his only daughter, which is probably far too few Y-chromosomes for traditional Prussian pride.

On the other hand, Viktoria Luise was apparently the only person he could drop his famous bombast and "inferiority superiority" complex around and just be much more relaxed and pleasant. I'm glad he had at least her.

 

[SirGyamfi1]

It never stops being mildly amusing that of all his descendants, the only ones to get thrones have been his granddaughter, great-grandaughter (and now great-great-grandson... and future great-great-great-grandaughter), all through his only daughter, which is probably far too few Y-chromosomes for traditional Prussian pride.

On the other hand, Viktoria Luise was apparently the only person he could drop his famous bombast and "inferiority superiority" complex around and just be much more relaxed and pleasant. I'm glad he had at least her.

Well not really, the social and political situation of Germany at the time made it difficult for his sons to regain their throne aside from some them doing politically incorrect things in attempt of their former throne. Viktoria Luise was lucky to have descendants on a throne.

 

[Prinsara]

Well not really, the social and political situation of Germany at the time made it difficult for his sons to regain their throne aside from some them doing politically incorrect things in attempt of their former throne. Viktoria Luise was lucky to have descendants on a throne.

Fairly certain that while Willy was Kaiser (and the entire period of his life before that), he did not envision this situation. At all. (Besides, the odds of Viktoria Luise's descendants winding up reigning royalty were not exactly greater than those of her six brothers and all their descendants.) So yeah, it is amusing.

 

[SirGyamfi1]

Fairly certain that while Willy was Kaiser (and the entire period of his life before that), he did not envision this situation. At all. (Besides, the odds of Viktoria Luise's descendants winding up reigning royalty were not exactly greater than those of her six brothers and all their descendants.) So yeah, it is amusing.

Ok, with the way you explained now I get it. I see how it is amusing but the unpredictability of it too.

 

[Stefan]

It never stops being mildly amusing that of all his descendants, the only ones to get thrones have been his granddaughter, great-grandaughter (and now great-great-grandson... and future great-great-great-grandaughter), all through his only daughter, which is probably far too few Y-chromosomes for traditional Prussian pride.

On the other hand, Viktoria Luise was apparently the only person he could drop his famous bombast and "inferiority superiority" complex around and just be much more relaxed and pleasant. I'm glad he had at least her.

Even if the Monarchy would not have been abolished only one of his sons would have become a monarch and not the others too.

 

[Prinsara]

Even if the Monarchy would not have been abolished only one of his sons would have become a monarch and not the others too.

Yes, and as both of you seem to keep ignoring, any of the six sons could have had a descendant who married someone royal or even reigning, the way VL's daughter did. VL herself only married a member of a marginalized, dethroned family and was praised for diplomacy. And Viktoria Luise was considerably outnumbered (and for that matter there were no guarantees Pavlos of Greece would have ascended the throne; he was the third brother and it took a long set of circumstances, even though it was more of a certainty when he married Friederike). Yet the only royals come through her.

 

[SirGyamfi1]

Yes, and as both of you seem to keep ignoring, any of the six sons could have had a descendant who married someone royal or even reigning, the way VL's daughter did. VL herself only married a member of a marginalized, dethroned family and was praised for diplomacy. And Viktoria Luise was considerably outnumbered (and for that matter there were no guarantees Pavlos of Greece would have ascended the throne; he was the third brother and it took a long set of circumstances, even though it was more of a certainty when he married Friederike). Yet the only royals come through her.

Well who could any of the sons have married who would get a chance to marry a royal from the reigning houses? Very few because the Hohenzollerns were a Lutheran family and the few Protestant reigning houses didn’t want to marry them or consider them for marriage. Plus some of them married unequally or didn’t have children with their wives. But to a certain extent, I get your point.

 

[CyrilVladisla]

Emperor Wilhelm II and Queen Alexandra of England at an archeological excavation in Garista, Corfu in 1911
http://www.maryevans.com/history/10496927

 

[GraceOMalleysGhost]

What? She didn't push him into a pit while she had the chance? Maybe a trip over an incautiously placed umbrella? I'm surprised, knowing how much she loathed him.

 

[Curryong]

A lot of his extended family and other royals loathed the Kaiser, though she and her sister Marie, the Dowager Tsarina of Russia did so more than most. Alexandra used her deafness very adroitly though. Apparently one day the Kaiser was pouring long reams of unwanted advice into her unwilling ears (something he was wont to do) when she just said to him very sweetly ‘I’m so sorry Willy, but I just haven’t heard a word you have said’, and walked on.

 

[SirGyamfi1]

What? She didn't push him into a pit while she had the chance? Maybe a trip over an incautiously placed umbrella? I'm surprised, knowing how much she loathed him.

What would that achieve? Causing a diplomatic incident and already mess up obvious strained relations. It’s one thing to not like someone, it’s another to get physical and injure deliberately. Alexandra has been described as childish but I don’t think she would go that far. I don’t believe royals in those days would be serious about physically injured someone, even if they hated them.

 

[Curryong]

Well, Queen Mary’s second cousin, the grandson of her beloved Aunt Augusta of Mecklenberg Strelitz, was killed by his brother in law in a duel over his sister. That’s just one I can think of. And Crown Prince Rudolf of Austria killed his very young girlfriend and then himself in a murder-suicide. Those two examples are much worse than pushing someone over, a person practically everyone loathed. A lot of the royals would probably have secretly cheered.

 

[Prinsara]

What would that achieve? Causing a diplomatic incident and already mess up obvious strained relations. It’s one thing to not like someone, it’s another to get physical and injure deliberately. Alexandra has been described as childish but I don’t think she would go that far. I don’t believe royals in those days would be serious about physically injured someone, even if they hated them.

Alix was already on record as nearly causing a diplomatic incident by refusing to greet his grandfather on an informal occasion before she backed down and did it.

Her vitriolic loathing of Prussia and Germany by extension had quite far-reaching consequences, such as refusing to allow any of her children to marry a German even had they not absorbed her views about them.

Also, I suspect GraceOMalleysGhost was joking. I had much the same reaction minus the physical injury in Alexandra's thread. Alix described the occasion with 'The Great William' rather acidly.

Willy, of course, would not think it at all strange to buy Sisi's old house in Corfu and hang around in Greece despite once banning his sister from Germany with hellfire and damnation for converting to Greek Orthodoxy...

 

[GraceOMalleysGhost]

I was being 100% tongue-in-cheek, my apologies. I didn't mean to insinuate that Queen Alexandra would ever do such a thing in reality. She never would have resorted to anything so crass as physical violence.

 

[CyrilVladisla]

What? She didn't push him into a pit while she had the chance? Maybe a trip over an incautiously placed umbrella? I'm surprised, knowing how much she loathed him.

Alexandra had been married to Wilhelm II's uncle King Edward VII. In 1911 King George V was now the sovereign of England. How would George apologize to Empress Augusta Viktoria for what his mother had done to Wilhelm?

 

[Curryong]

‘Sorry!’ perhaps. And if she had done it (which she probably felt like doing a thousand times when she met William) it would have been presented as an accident, an inappropriate laying down of a parasol near to the pit, a sudden taking of his arm at a moment when he was absorbed with something else. None of the German Household (unless they saw her do something specific) would be accusing an old lady (mother to the British King) of GBH!

 

[SirGyamfi1]

I was being 100% tongue-in-cheek, my apologies. I didn't mean to insinuate that Queen Alexandra would ever do such a thing in reality. She never would have resorted to anything so crass as physical violence.

I could tell from the emoji that you weren’t being really serious

 

[SirGyamfi1]

Well, Queen Mary’s second cousin, the grandson of her beloved Aunt Augusta of Mecklenberg Strelitz, was killed by his brother in law in a duel over his sister. That’s just one I can think of. And Crown Prince Rudolf of Austria killed his very young girlfriend and then himself in a murder-suicide. Those two examples are much worse than pushing someone over, a person practically everyone loathed. A lot of the royals would probably have secretly cheered.

The duel between Queen Mary’s cousin and his former brother in law, Count Jameteel was stupid, but I feel sorry for him because the Strelitz line is extinct now. At the end of it, his sister may have been disgraced in court when her past about getting pregnant by a servant was thrown in her face and her horrible marriage, but she remarried and made a better marital choice socially and has descendants. I would call it sad, but her brother was no Head of state.

As for Rudolf, it was a tragic international incident but there were court officials who were probably happy that they didn’t have to deal with him and his strange ways. But again, he was no Head of state. For other royals to be secretly happy about the imaginary push would make them just as immature if not less mature than the Kaiser so I don’t see how them being secretly happy about it and hating him would seriously justify doing that.

I’m not trivializing what you mentioned, but my point was that it’s not about tragedy, but more about appropriate behavior and conduct. You don’t need to get to physical with someone just because you don’t like them as long as they don’t try to start being physical with you.

 

[SirGyamfi1]

Alix was already on record as nearly causing a diplomatic incident by refusing to greet his grandfather on an informal occasion before she backed down and did it.

Her vitriolic loathing of Prussia and Germany by extension had quite far-reaching consequences, such as refusing to allow any of her children to marry a German even had they not absorbed her views about them.

Also, I suspect GraceOMalleysGhost was joking. I had much the same reaction minus the physical injury in Alexandra's thread. Alix described the occasion with 'The Great William' rather acidly.

Willy, of course, would not think it at all strange to buy Sisi's old house in Corfu and hang around in Greece despite once banning his sister from Germany with hellfire and damnation for converting to Greek Orthodoxy...

It is a bit rich for her to dislike Germans considering her own mother was actually German from the Hesse-Kassel branch of the House of Hesse. Ps. Queen Mary’s father was a German Prince straight from Germany so I wonder what she thought about that?

I don’t think the Kaiser disliked Greece, but probably preferred his sister to make an alliance with other German ruling Houses of the the Lutheran or Protestant faiths not a ruling family of the Greek Orthodox faith. Plus the Greek royals were descendants of Alexandra’s brother. It’s not hypocritical for him to go to Greece because the Kaiser wasn’t marrying a Greek Orthodox or converting like his sister. But I don’t agree with him banning her for that though.