who will become the Japanese emperor in a "King Ralph" situation?

[KathyMoore]

who will become the Japanese emperor in a "King Ralph" situation?

Thanks!

 

[kimebear]

The current line of succession is:

HIH Crown Prince Naruhito (Emperor Akihito's oldest son)
HIH Prince Akishino (Emperor Akihito's youngest son)
HIH Prince Hisahito (Prince Akishino's son)
HIH Prince Hitachi (Emperor Akihito's younger brother)
HIH Prince Mikasa (Emperor Showa's youngest brother)
HIH Prince Tomohito of Mikasa (Prince Mikasa's eldest son)
HIH Prince Katsura (Prince Mikasa's second son)

The only other options after this line are to either:

Establish Equal Primogeniture and allow women to be included in the line of succession (which would be helpful considering how many princesses there are)

or

Re-establish some of the junior branches of the Imperial Family that were demoted after World War II (Asaka, Fushimi, Higashi-Fushimi, Higashi-kuni, Kan'in, Kaya, Kitashirakawa, Kuni, Nashimoto, Takeda, and Yamashina).

 

[serenissima]

The succession of the Japanese Throne

I doubt that the majority of the Japanese public will welcome this idea of re-establishing the old Miya-kés. It will be a natural progress to abolish the current "Ko****su Tempan" or the Imperial Household Law and place HIH Princess Aiko to the position of the heiress presumptive. HIH Prince Tomohito, the eldest son of HIH Prince Takahito, the Prince of Mikasa, suggests that the Imperial House of Japan may revive the ancient tradition of the imperail concubinage in order for the Toh-gu-san or the Crown Prince of Japan to produce a male heir. However, this idea seems as if his personal opinion to legitimatise his own fantasy.

 

[Velasco]

Whats a "King Ralph" situation?

You've listed seven male heirs, doesn't seem too bad to me. Unless there is a big tragedy and all of them are killed off together, I'm sure one or other of them will be able to continue the line.

Permitting concubinage would be a good idea though, allow the Emperor and Crown Prince to beget more children within the direct Imperial family.

Now if the succession is really in a precarious situation, then they should permit Princess Aiko to inherit and have her marry one of her male cousins, either of the Mikasa line, or one of those who were demoted after WWII, to keep the Imperial crown within the same dynasty.

 

[MAfan]

First of all, wait and see what Prince Hisahito will do...after that, if things will go at the worst, the Emperor will decide what to do.

 

[Mermaid1962]

"King Ralph" is a movie that came out within the last couple of decades. The Royal Family (of Britain, presumably) is all blown to smithereens while gathered for an extended family photo. I think that the cause of the explosion was a malfunctioning camera, but I'm not sure. In any case, the nearest family member is Ralph, who's a loud, crass American. He ends up being the King and finding out what honor and all those good things are about. It was definitely light entertainment.

Whats a "King Ralph" situation?

 

[Shaiya]

Permitting concubinage would be a good idea though, allow the Emperor and Crown Prince to beget more children within the direct Imperial family.

Now if the succession is really in a precarious situation, then they should permit Princess Aiko to inherit and have her marry one of her male cousins, either of the Mikasa line, or one of those who were demoted after WWII, to keep the Imperial crown within the same dynasty.

Are you serious? Concubines in the 21st century? And making Aiko marry her cousin? That's seriously wack, the Royal Family isn't so necessary for Japan to have to resort to such things as cousin marriages and concubines.

 

[QUEENECE29]

Princess Aiko is absent for line of succession. Distressing for Japan because year 2008...

 

[Velasco]

Well, concubines, as in, "lesser" wives (ie, not as important as the head wife, but still having some rights ofc) I see no problem with. If all parties are happy with the arrangement, why not?

The idea to marry Aiko to a cousin is because, in the past, female Emperors have generally ruled temporarily until there was an adult male who was descended from the Imperial house in the main line.

For any son of hersto be able to inherit, his father would have to be an Imperial prince.

 

[Elspeth]

Well, concubines, as in, "lesser" wives (ie, not as important as the head wife, but still having some rights ofc) I see no problem with. If all parties are happy with the arrangement, why not?

The idea to marry Aiko to a cousin is because, in the past, female Emperors have generally ruled temporarily until there was an adult male who was descended from the Imperial house in the main line.

For any son of hersto be able to inherit, his father would have to be an Imperial prince.

I really can't see Princess Masako being happy with the arrangement.

 

[Al_bina]

The idea of having a concubine as a necessary evil to secure the bloodline will not work in the case of Crown Prince Naruhito and Crown Princess Masako because Crown Prince Naruhito will likely to reject this old traditional method. Personally I do not see Princess Aiko ascending the throne. It is up to Prince Hisahito to continue the bloodline now.

 

[Mermaid1962]

No. And considering that Japan is--from all outward appearances--a 21st-century nation, this would be extremely bad from a public-relations viewpoint.

I really can't see Princess Masako being happy with the arrangement.

 

[magnik]

"King Ralph" is a movie that came out within the last couple of decades. The Royal Family (of Britain, presumably) is all blown to smithereens while gathered for an extended family photo. I think that the cause of the explosion was a malfunctioning camera, but I'm not sure. In any case, the nearest family member is Ralph, who's a loud, crass American. He ends up being the King and finding out what honor and all those good things are about. It was definitely light entertainment.

Yes all members of the BRF named Wyndham were electrouced during first after six years break photosession. You know what happen when is wet and cables are on the ground... But Ralph he was short time king. He abdicated for his cousin the King's private secretary Sir Cedric Willingham who become a rightfull king.
It was with Peter O'Toole and John Goodman.



Concubines, arrangement marriages...That's Japan ... different culture... but you never know what the future bring.
Maybe the present Empereor will surprise us or maybe the next Emperor Naruhito do that. Who knows...

 

[kimebear]

Naruhito has given a very clear impression that he intends to be a modern Emperor. I think it highly unlikely that he would reconsider going back to a time of concubines.

 

[Al_bina]

Maybe the present Empereor will surprise us or maybe the next Emperor Naruhito do that. Who knows...

What way will Emperor Akihito surprise us?

 

[magnik]

Who knows... I was thinking about succsession but it's only theory/dream.
At the moment they probably wouldn't change the succsession law because there is Hisahito.

Btw do you know that
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_Imperial_succession_controversy

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imperial_Household_of_Japan#Current_order_of_succession

 

[Al_bina]

The succession crisis in Japan has been resolved at this point in time. Crown Prince Naruhito, Prince Akishino, and Prince Hisahito will continue the dynasty. At the same time, Prince Hisahito will be burdened by securing the bloodline by all means available. He may use an old tradition of having a concubine.

 

[magnik]

1. Crown Prince Naruhito (Emperor Akihito's oldest son) - one daughter
2. Prince Akishino (Emperor Akihito's youngest son) - one sone #3, two daughters
3. Prince Hisahito (Prince Akishino's son)
4. Prince Hitachi (Emperor Akihito's younger brother) - new branch of the family, no heir
5. Prince Mikasa (Emperor Showa's youngest brother) - 2 daughters, 3 sons
6. Prince Tomohito of Mikasa (Prince Mikasa's eldest son) - two daughters
7. Prince Katsura (Prince Mikasa's second son) - new branch of the family, unmarried
(8) late Prince Takamado (Prince Mikasa's thurd son) - new branch of the family, three daughters

After the removal of eleven families from the imperial house in October 1947, the official membership of the imperial family has effectively been limited to the male line descendants of the Emperor Taisho, excluding females who married outside the imperial family and their descendants. Other families become commoners.

 

[marian]

i think that is by prince naruhito very sad to see that his daughter cant be one day to be in the throne, in fact, i belive that he should abdicate to his rights first, because he loves his wife and child, second, i belive that he should be to obligate to have a son. The prince, maybe, believes that his little aiko can more happy in other part, because i understand that this court is very hard. For me, aiko should be happy and when she can, she makes a marriage for love.

 

[Al_bina]

On what grounds should Crown Prince Naruhito abdicate in favour of his brother, Prince Akishino? Not having a son does not make Crown Prince Naruhito a less worthy Emperor. The succession line is dependent on the birth order. Crown Prince Naruhito was born first. So he should become the next Emperor, whereas Prince Akishino and Prince Hisahito can succeed him.

 

[Empress]

I still think that Aiko should inherit after her father. Tradition is well and good, but even tradition needs to evolve a bit.

 

[muriel]

I still think that Aiko should inherit after her father. Tradition is well and good, but even tradition needs to evolve a bit.

Entirely my sentiment.

 

[Al_bina]

Traditions should evolve. It is all well and good, but Japan is an intricate amalgam of innovations that rest on traditions. Being a deeply patriarchal society, Japan reveres old traditions as a distinctive feature in this globalised world. These traditions give men/sons more advantageous position and assign women/daughters to a usual female stuff (homemaking, child rearing). We do not expect Vatican to have a female Pope ... Saudi Arabia or any other country in the Persian Gulf is not likely to have Sheikha succeeding her father any time soon ... An Arab or Asian Princess is unlikely to become a Consort to a British Prince. Whilst I agree about traditions and evolution, a nation has got a full right to uphold traditions it deems appropriate. Wether we like it or not, but sons continue bloodlines in the Asian society. Thus, the Japanese Imperial family, similar to Arab Royal families, strives to maintain bloodline through sons.

 

[ChiaraC]

Well, concubines, as in, "lesser" wives (ie, not as important as the head wife, but still having some rights ofc) I see no problem with. If all parties are happy with the arrangement, why not?

The idea to marry Aiko to a cousin is because, in the past, female Emperors have generally ruled temporarily until there was an male who was descended from the Imperial house in the main line.

For any son of hersto be able to inherit, his father would have to be an Imperial prince.

I agree with Elsbeth in the supposition that Masako would hardly be happy with this, and, like Albina and kimebear, I do not see Naruhito being happy with the arrangement either: He has said even before Masako consented to marry him that if she decided against him he would remain single. That means he would have refused to take a „regular“ wife out of merely procreative motives, so it is even less probable that he would have ever considered to take a concubine for that reason.

As for Aiko marrying a cousin, except little Hisahito, all her cousins far and near are either about 60 years her seniors or of gender female, so concerning the continuance of the imperial b.lood line this really would not get us anywhere...

 

[ChiaraC]

Traditions should evolve. It is all well and good, but Japan is an intricate amalgam of innovations that rest on traditions. Being a deeply patriarchal society, Japan reveres old traditions as a distinctive feature in this globalised world. These traditions give men/sons more advantageous position and assign women/daughters to a usual female stuff (homemaking, child rearing). We do not expect Vatican to have a female Pope ... Saudi Arabia or any other country in the Persian Gulf is not likely to have Sheikha succeeding her father any time soon ... An Arab or Asian Princess is unlikely to become a Consort to a British Prince. Whilst I agree about traditions and evolution, a nation has got a full right to uphold traditions it deems appropriate. Wether we like it or not, but sons continue lines in the Asian society. Thus, the Japanese Imperial family, similar to Arab Royal families, strives to maintain line through sons.

I agree in that it is, of course, not up to us to decide what the Japanese or their imperial family should do. (They are not asking us for advice, anyway...)

But it is a general custom in the whole world that traditions and their validity are being discussed for a shorter or a longer time and, oftentimes, they are finally changed. For example, as you are mentioning the pope, there is an ongoing discussion in the Catholic church about women getting the right to become priests.

I certainly do not see this becoming reality in the near future, at least not as long the present pope is alive – but later on, who knows what will happen? And I also remember that when the present pope was elected there was a discussion if the new pope should not come from another continent than Europe, for a change. It did not happen, but obviously it is not so much out of the question as it was in the last century. The next pope will certainly not be a woman - but he might well be black...

 

[Al_bina]

As far as I remember, the discussions about the equal primogeniture have been put off due to Prince Hisahito's well-timed birth. Personally I think it will take an extinction of all possible males in the Imperial bloodline to allow women ascending the Chrysanthemum Throne. The IHA and other courtiers will be forced to change the succession rules because there will be no other way to resolve the new heir crisis.

 

[Shaiya]

Traditions should evolve. It is all well and good, but Japan is an intricate amalgam of innovations that rest on traditions. Being a deeply patriarchal society, Japan reveres old traditions as a distinctive feature in this globalised world. These traditions give men/sons more advantageous position and assign women/daughters to a usual female stuff (homemaking, child rearing). We do not expect Vatican to have a female Pope ... Saudi Arabia or any other country in the Persian Gulf is not likely to have Sheikha succeeding her father any time soon ... An Arab or Asian Princess is unlikely to become a Consort to a British Prince. Whilst I agree about traditions and evolution, a nation has got a full right to uphold traditions it deems appropriate. Wether we like it or not, but sons continue bloodlines in the Asian society. Thus, the Japanese Imperial family, similar to Arab Royal families, strives to maintain bloodline through sons.

Most people in Japan either didn't give a hoots about Aiko inheriting the throne or were for it. I'm a quarter Japanese and trust me, they aren't as patriarchal as you think. Especially the younger generation, women are a lot more independent now and it's common for them to be in the workplace. Besides it's all about modernization and gender equality. People no longer serve monarchies, but monarchies serve people. What purpose do they have if they don't change to reflect their country?

 

[Al_bina]

If the Japanese do not mind or really care about Princess Aiko ascending the throne, I wonder why Prime Minister Koizumi was no allowed to introduce the equal primogeniture and the heir crisis was resolved by a well-timed birth of Prince Hisahito. Indeed, there are some changes, which have prompted women to rethink their role within the Japanese society by focusing on their career, delaying marriages, and postponing the childbirth. At the same time, I am sure it may take a rather long period of time to achieve true gender equality in Asian countries.

 

[Mermaid1962]

Am I correct in thinking that there is a real aversion in Japan to influence from outside cultures in terms of things that are really important: family roles, religion, and the ruling class? A superficial look at the way Japanese people live would make non-Asians think that they are modern because of the clothes they wear and their success in business; but I know that what appears to be is not necessarily what is.

Traditions should evolve. It is all well and good, but Japan is an intricate amalgam of innovations that rest on traditions. Being a deeply patriarchal society, Japan reveres old traditions as a distinctive feature in this globalised world.

 

[Al_bina]

As far as I can judge, the Japanese take a foreign concept or product adopt to fit the local circumstances. Interpersonal relationships mostly rest upon conservative traditions. However, the recent development such as increase in divorce and decline of population may indicate that a part of the Japanese society is ready for some viable changes. In any situation, I still think that Prince Hisahito and other men in the family will ascend the Chrysanthemum throne. I shall greatly be surprised, if Crown Prince Naruhito attempts to rock the the boat of harmony by introducing the equal primogeniture.