Who Was The First English Queen?


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BritishRoyalist

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I was reading something the other day about the British Monarchy and about the History of it Monarchs. There have been very few Queens in history and a couple of them have been disrupted so. That got me wondering about who was the first 'Official' Female Queen Monarch of England? (Now the United Kingdom), Were there 6 or 8 Queens? I am asking because I have heard different things. The most common thing that I have heard or have read is that there have been Six English Queens throughout it 1000 Years history ( Mary I, Elizabeth I, Mary II, Anne, Victoria and now Elizabeth II), Other times on occasions I have heard 7 when Lady Jane Grey is added who was queen for only 9 Days and her Reign is often disputed. Now what about Matilda who rein from 7 April 1141 – 1 November 1141? although she was called an Empress and only ruled for five Months.

So was Mary I was the First Queen of England? Were there Six or Seven Reigning Queens of England?
 
It's debatable of course, but I'd say Mary I was the first true Queen Regent. Thank goodness she was closely followed by Elizabeth I.
 
I've wondered that myself. Should Matilda be considered a real Queen?
I agree with HRHHermione, I myself consider Mary to be the first true Queen Regent.
 
Matilda should have been Queen but the English Barons would not accept a woman and decided on Stephen of Blois.

Matilda was the daughter of Henry I (who had just died); Stephen the grandson of William the Conqueror through Adela, William I's daughter.

Because the title was disputed, it has never been considered valid. English history goes from Henry I straight to Stephen.

Here is the Wiki page if you are interested
Stephen, King of England - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

So Mary I was the first true Queen IMO.

Lady Jane Grey was the victim of the politics arising from the death of Edward VI. Not considered by many to be a true Queen.
 
The first undisputed Queen Regnant of England was Mary I, eldest daughter of Henry VIII and Catherine of Aragon.

Before Mary, there had been two other Queens Regnant - Empress Matilda and Lady Jane Grey. However, their reigns are disputed. Matilda was never crowned (which admittedly isn't necessary to become a Queen) and her Throne was pretty much immediately usurped by her cousin, Stephan. While by strict primogeniture rules she should have indeed been England's first Queen Regnant, she never reigned or ruled. Lady Jane Grey was Queen for less than two weeks; her claims to the Throne were not legal and weren't recognised by anyone, be it the people, the nobility or the clergy.
 
The first undisputed Queen Regnant of England was Mary I, eldest daughter of Henry VIII and Catherine of Aragon.

Before Mary, there had been two other Queens Regnant - Empress Matilda and Lady Jane Grey. However, their reigns are disputed. Matilda was never crowned (which admittedly isn't necessary to become a Queen) and her Throne was pretty much immediately usurped by her cousin, Stephan. While by strict primogeniture rules she should have indeed been England's first Queen Regnant, she never reigned or ruled. Lady Jane Grey was Queen for less than two weeks; her claims to the Throne were not legal and weren't recognised by anyone, be it the people, the nobility or the clergy.
So the first 'Crowned Queen' was Mary I?
 
Yes, I'd have to throw my hat in with Mary Tudor as the first Queen Regnant. She had a controversial life because of the stain of bastardy due to Henry VIII's rampant desire for a male heir, but was considered his heir prior to his declaration of an invalid marriage to Katherine of Aragon. After her half-brother Edward VI died and Jane Grey was denounced as the nine-day queen, she was the undisputed monarch and was crowned as such.
 
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So the first 'Crowned Queen' was Mary I?
The first Queen Regnant of England (disputed or undisputed) to have been crowned was indeed Mary I.
Her coronation took place at Westminster Abbey on 1 October 1553 - about 4 months after her accession to the Throne.
 
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Yes, I'd have to throw my hat in with Mary Tudor as the first Queen Regnant. She had a controversial life because of the stain of bastardy due to Henry VIII's rampant desire for a male heir, but was considered his heir prior to that. After her half-brother Edward VI died and Jane Grey was denounced as the nine-day queen, she was the undisputed monarch and was crowned as such.
You know, I think very few Monarchs had the same goodwill and support at the time of their accession as Mary. Despite her being a Catholic and a woman, people and nobility were at first firmly on her side; her tragic early life and loss of beloved mother, her effective imprisonment by her own father - everything made people want to support, take care of her. Had she been wiser, her reign (however short) could have been remembered as a glorious one. Or, alternatively, if she had reigned for perhaps a decade longer and succeeded in restoring the Catholic Church, would she not be remembered as the Saint Queen or something to the effect?
 
You know, I think very few Monarchs had the same goodwill and support at the time of their accession as Mary. Despite her being a Catholic and a woman, people and nobility were at first firmly on her side; her tragic early life and loss of beloved mother, her effective imprisonment by her own father - everything made people want to support, take care of her. Had she been wiser, her reign (however short) could have been remembered as a glorious one. Or, alternatively, if she had reigned for perhaps a decade longer and succeeded in restoring the Catholic Church, would she not be remembered as the Saint Queen or something to the effect?

Who would have succeeded her and her Catholic throne? Elizabeth as a Catholic?
 
You know, I think very few Monarchs had the same goodwill and support at the time of their accession as Mary. Despite her being a Catholic and a woman, people and nobility were at first firmly on her side; her tragic early life and loss of beloved mother, her effective imprisonment by her own father - everything made people want to support, take care of her. Had she been wiser, her reign (however short) could have been remembered as a glorious one. Or, alternatively, if she had reigned for perhaps a decade longer and succeeded in restoring the Catholic Church, would she not be remembered as the Saint Queen or something to the effect?

She started her reign so well with that vast support, but how unfortunate it ended with the moniker "Bloody Mary" with her tragic and drastic attempts to bring the Catholic Church back to England. And marrying King Philip of Spain, a Catholic ruler himself, didn't win her any supporters either for fear that Catholic Spain would dominate rule of England. The English people breathed a collective sigh of relief by the time Protestant Elizabeth inherited the throne.
 
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Who would have succeeded her and her Catholic throne? Elizabeth as a Catholic?
Why not? Elizabeth was not nearly as religiously zealous as her brother; if England became a Catholic country again, Elizabeth would have adapted. And even if she didn't, I'm pretty certain others in the line of succession (descendants of Mary, Queen of France) would not have missed the opportunity. After all, Henry IV of France once said "Paris vaut bien une messe" (Paris is well worth a Mass): I daresay England is worth one too.
 
Thank everybody for your Input! So in truth there were only Six Queens who were Crowned (Mary I, Elizabeth I, Mary II, Anne ,Victoria and Elizabeth II) while the other two (Matilda and Lady Jane) were never crowned and are disputed. So Mary I was the first Queen. That clears it up.
 
I agree -ambivalent in terms of religion.

Then where would it have gone? Because I don't believe a foreign (french or spanish) monarch would have been acceptable.
 
Thank everybody for your Input! So in truth there were only Six Queens who were Crowned (Mary I, Elizabeth I, Mary II, Anne ,Victoria and Elizabeth II) while the other two (Matilda and Lady Jane) were never crowned and are disputed. So Mary I was the first Queen. That clears it up.

That's exactly right. Six undisputed Queens and two disputed ones. :)

I agree -ambivalent in terms of religion.

Then where would it have gone? Because I don't believe a foreign (french or spanish) monarch would have been acceptable.
No need for a foreign Monarch. Henry VIII established the Line of Succession as the following:
Edward is descendants -> Mary and her descendants - Elizabeth and her descendants -> the descendants of Mary, Queen of France (Henry's younger sister).

All three of Henry's children died childless so Mary Tudor's descendants were next in the succession line - and they were very much English. Mary's children were not through her first marriage to the King of France (that union was childless) but through her second marriage to an Englishman, Charles Brandon, 1st Duke of Suffolk. Their two children to have issue were Frances (mother of the Grey sisters, including Lady Jane Grey) and Eleanor. Even assuming all Grey sisters and their descendants were disqualified for whatever reasons (as did indeed happen during Elizabeth I's reign), the descendants of Eleanor Clifford were still there. Incidentally, among those descendants was Anne Stanley, Countess of Castlehaven who was, under Henry VIII's will, the real heir to the English Throne upon the death of Elizabeth I. Strictly speaking, James VI had no legal rights to the Throne of England; it's just that his claim was not disputed.
 
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James' claim came was a better blood claim. Henry had moved his older sister's line below that of the younger sister. James came from the older sister's line - and thus was a better blood claim.

The question really is 'could a monarch set a claim by his will and his will alone - over blood' and the answer was then, as is now, no.
 
I regard Matilda as Queen for those nine months. She was the only surviving child of Henry I and her son was Henry II. Stephen had no right to be king. Matilda should have been Queen from 1135. The Normans just couldn't handle the idea of a woman in charge.

If Richard I is regarded as having been King for 10 years despite having only spent a few months of that time in England and not having the slightest interest in being King, surely Matilda can be regarded as having been Queen.
 
Matilda can't be considered Queen as the people didn't recognise her. Stephen was an annoited King so for her to be Queen she needed to remove him and commit regicide.

Had she been able to get the throne before Stephen's coronation maybe, but once he was annoited as King - no way - the only way to remove an annoited King is via regicide. Even the church recognised that an annoited King was something that was hard to overturn.

As for Richard - sure he was one of England's worst ever kings - he simply saw the country as one to be used to gain money from - he was however annoited and crowned.
 
James' claim came was a better blood claim. Henry had moved his older sister's line below that of the younger sister. James came from the older sister's line - and thus was a better blood claim.

The question really is 'could a monarch set a claim by his will and his will alone - over blood' and the answer was then, as is now, no.
The answer is very much yes.
Henry VIII didn't set the claim by his will alone - he reinforced it by an Act of Parliament. If Acts of Parliament were inferior to blood proximity then Elizabeth II would not have been Queen today since; the Hanoverian claim to the Throne was based on the Act of Settlement, not blood proximity. There were 50+ people with better blood claims, yet once an Act of Parliament was passed, Sophia's claim became indisputable (apart from the Stuarts, and even that for two generations only).
 
Matilda can't be considered Queen as the people didn't recognise her. Stephen was an annoited King so for her to be Queen she needed to remove him and commit regicide.

Had she been able to get the throne before Stephen's coronation maybe, but once he was annoited as King - no way - the only way to remove an annoited King is via regicide. Even the church recognised that an annoited King was something that was hard to overturn.

As for Richard - sure he was one of England's worst ever kings - he simply saw the country as one to be used to gain money from - he was however annoited and crowned.

Details, details! :lol:

I personally don't give a hoot about the annointing. Stephen had no right to be king and he should not have been. I choose to consider Matilda as Queen. I don't expect anyone else to agree with me on this point.
 
I know, it's hard to bear that Matilda couldn't rightfully claim her throne since she was Henry I's only living child and the rightful heiress. However, Stephen of Blois basically hijacked the throne and was crowned in her stead, and no amount of revolution by Matilda's supporters could supplant him as anointed ruler despite her inhabiting the throne for a few months. The only resolution that was reached was an agreement that Henry FitzEmpress, Matilda's son, would be Stephen's heir upon his death.
 
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:previous:
Didn't Eustace die before Stephen and Henry came to an agreement? If I remember accurately, Eustace died in 1153 and the truce was made in 1154. Now, Stephan's younger son, William - he had a lot of reasons to feel unhappy. Mind you, Henry treated him pretty well after his accession to the Throne but still, to be that close to becoming a King only for your father to name someone else as a successor? Poor guy.
 
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Yes, Eustace did die before the truce, paving the way for a peaceful settlement between Stephen and Henry, and I edited my post accordingly. I'm sure Stephen's other remaining son wouldn't have been a happy camper that he was thisclose to inheriting the throne and missing out to Henry.
 
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So, I know this is an older thread, but I had a thought.

Matilda's reign (if it can be called that) was longer than Edward V's reign, yet we consider Edward to have been an undisputed monarch and debate over the validity of Mathilda as a monarch (we also see this with Jane, although her reign was far shorter than either).

What if the reason why Edward's reign is considered to have been a reign is not because of the reign itself but rather the regnal numbering of later monarchs - notably Edward VI. The first Edward's reign is confirmed as having been a reign by the second Edward's decision to call himself 6th of that name instead of 5th. In the case of Matilda, we don't have another Matilda to retroactively confirm her reign - likewise with Jane.

This retroactivity is also seen in the Jacobite succession, with the first Jacobite pretender sty losing himself as James III and the current pretender being called Francis II, assuming that each individual in that line between the two men had a legitimate reign despite never having actually ruled. We also see it in the House of Napoleon - Napoleon III was so numbered, despite Napoleon II never ruling.

Consequently, if the Cambridge baby were to be named Matilda or Jane and then use the regnal number II then their predecessor would have her reign confirmed.
 
So, I know this is an older thread, but I had a thought.

Matilda's reign (if it can be called that) was longer than Edward V's reign, yet we consider Edward to have been an undisputed monarch and debate over the validity of Mathilda as a monarch (we also see this with Jane, although her reign was far shorter than either).

What if the reason why Edward's reign is considered to have been a reign is not because of the reign itself but rather the regnal numbering of later monarchs - notably Edward VI. The first Edward's reign is confirmed as having been a reign by the second Edward's decision to call himself 6th of that name instead of 5th. In the case of Matilda, we don't have another Matilda to retroactively confirm her reign - likewise with Jane.

This retroactivity is also seen in the Jacobite succession, with the first Jacobite pretender sty losing himself as James III and the current pretender being called Francis II, assuming that each individual in that line between the two men had a legitimate reign despite never having actually ruled. We also see it in the House of Napoleon - Napoleon III was so numbered, despite Napoleon II never ruling.

Consequently, if the Cambridge baby were to be named Matilda or Jane and then use the regnal number II then their predecessor would have her reign confirmed.

I can see your point. And I agree.

But I doubt the Cambridge will name the child Matilda or Jane, in order to avoid such a tricky situation.

Imagine, if they name the Baby Arthur, and he decides to reign as King Arthur II. He would be recognising the mythical King Arhtu as a true English Monarch.

In fact, Empress Matilda and Lady Jane Grey are listed among the English Monarchs, at the British Monarchy's website.

History of the Monarchy > The Normans > Stephen

History of the Monarchy > The Tudors > Jane
 
Details, details! :lol:

I personally don't give a hoot about the annointing. Stephen had no right to be king and he should not have been. I choose to consider Matilda as Queen. I don't expect anyone else to agree with me on this point.


You mightn't give a hoot about the anoiting but to the medieval mind, and even the more modern church mind that is a crucial sign of monarchy.

It is a major reason why Edward VIII was forced to abdicate before his coronation rather than after - once annoited getting rid of him would be much harder for the church to support.

In the medieval world being annointed was seen as a sign from God, through God's official representatives here on Earth of the right of the King - thus Stephen was the annointed King and Matilda's only way to remove him was through his death - anything less would have seen her and her kingdom excommunicated meaning the the church would tell the people she wasn't the monarch and that they didn't have to follow her lead.
 
I can see your point. And I agree.

But I doubt the Cambridge will name the child Matilda or Jane, in order to avoid such a tricky situation.

Imagine, if they name the Baby Arthur, and he decides to reign as King Arthur II. He would be recognising the mythical King Arhtu as a true English Monarch.

In fact, Empress Matilda and Lady Jane Grey are listed among the English Monarchs, at the British Monarchy's website.

History of the Monarchy > The Normans > Stephen

History of the Monarchy > The Tudors > Jane

I doubt the Cambridges will name a daughter Jane simply because it's not a name that has much of a tradition within the family. It's appeared twice in the direct line - once as the name of a queen consort, Henry VIII's second wife, and once as a (disputed) queen regnant, Jane Grey. Matilda, however, has been rather popular and appears 8 times since the Conquest (making it tied with Eleanor for the 4th most popular female name). The Mountbatten-Windsors have a history of reintroducing older, pre-Hanoverian names to the direct family, so I personally wouldn't be surprised if Matilda was considered as a possibility.

Your comparison to King Arthur, however, is a bit of a stretch. For starters, the numbering system in the English tradition is based on the post-Conquest monarchs (there were 3 Edwards pre-Conquest, but Edward I was still numbered such), and as such on that basis alone any Arthur (or Alfred, Edmund, Edgar, or Harold for that matter) would be the first of that name. Even if we were to consider the pre-Conquest Wessex and Danish kings in the numbering, we would also have to consider whether or not they were Kings of England, or kings in a kingdom that would later become part of England. Alfred the Great was a king of Wessex, not England, and as such even allowing for pre-Conquest English monarchs in the numbering, any future King Alfred would be the first of that name.

Back to Arthur, though, there is also the fact that his mere existence is debated. There is no debate as to whether or not Matilda or Jane existed, there is a debate as to whether or not Matilda and Jane were actual monarchs owing to the conflicts surrounding their claims and the fact that they were both rather quickly disposed. Arthur is a legendary figure who is believed to have possibly existed 4 to 5 centuries prior to the Conquest and if he did exist was in all actuality a Welsh or Cornish monarch and not an English one - if he existed he ruled in a around the Anglo-Saxon invasion and his people were the ones defeated in said invasion.

Details, details! :lol:

I personally don't give a hoot about the annointing. Stephen had no right to be king and he should not have been. I choose to consider Matilda as Queen. I don't expect anyone else to agree with me on this point.

By that logic, Matilda's father, Henry I, had no right to be king and should not have been king, as he too usurped the throne. Stephen did have a claim to the throne - through his mother - and he took advantage of Henry I's lack of a male heir and his being in England at the time (Matilda was in Anjou when her father died).

You're wrong, though. Stephen did have a claim to the throne - his mother was the daughter of William I. Matilda had a better claim - her father was the son of William I and king in his own right - but that doesn't negate Stephen's claim.

You mightn't give a hoot about the anoiting but to the medieval mind, and even the more modern church mind that is a crucial sign of monarchy.

It is a major reason why Edward VIII was forced to abdicate before his coronation rather than after - once annoited getting rid of him would be much harder for the church to support.

In the medieval world being anointed was seen as a sign from God, through God's official representatives here on Earth of the right of the King - thus Stephen was the anointed King and Matilda's only way to remove him was through his death - anything less would have seen her and her kingdom excommunicated meaning the the church would tell the people she wasn't the monarch and that they didn't have to follow her lead.

It's arguable as to whether or not Edward VIII was forced to adbicate or merely pressured into it. I somehow doubt the church would have had too much of a problem with said abdication had he been annoited, given as they were pushing for the abdication in general over the idea of him marrying Wallis and having her become Queen.

The idea that Matilda may not have been a monarch doesn't necessarily stem entirely from her not having been anointed though. Edward V was never anointed and yet we still consider him to have been a monarch. The problem with Matilda is that at no point was her reign not disputed. Stephen usurped the throne immediately - as such she did not inherit. The point of time during which it's contested that she may have been a monarch is actually 6 years after the death of Henry I. In February 1141 she defeated and deposed Stephen, was welcomed in London by its citizens (which is often a mark of being the monarch), only to be deposed by Stephen in November. In my opinion, this is comparable to the second reign of Henry VI, who had first ruled from 1422-1461 before being deposed by Edward IV, then reconquered his throne in 1470 and then ruled again for a few months before being deposed by Edward again.

We recognize Henry's second reign because he was already an anointed King, but it's one that was contested at the time, was very short, and ended in him being usurped. Matilda was never anointed, but she was the legitimate heir who was usurped on her father's death, deposed her usurper in 1141 and was accepted by some of the people as monarch for a time before the civil war broke out once again and she was deposed. That she never had a coronation does not mean that she herself did not conquer the throne, however briefly. She's not the only monarch to not have been crowned - Edward VI, Jane, and Edward VIII weren't crowned, and in Scotland Margaret of Norway wasn't crowned, but only the female reigns are disputed.
 
Being annointed doesn't make one a monarch - true - as Edward V and Edward VIII are rightly considered monarchs despite no coronation but being annointed does make it harder for the church to support the removal of the monarch. It is one of the reasons why the medieval monarchs were so quick to get crowned often within weeks of their predecessors death.
 
:previous: Seems to me like a jolly good reason to delay it.

I am an atheist, and a fervent believer in separation of Church from State.

For me it's bad enough that my Head of State is a foreigner, but to know that she believes she is entitled to be in that position, and to be the Queen of Great Britain and all the extra bits, merely because one of her ancestors was a more successful warrior - translation: bully - than anyone else in the game at the time, and that therefore she has the right to be in that position because she has the approval of some higher being - an invisible friend, the very existence of which I deny - floors me.
 
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