Religion and Religious Matters of the Dutch RF

[An Ard Ri]

The Dutch king,queen and daughters were granted an audience with Pope Francis back in April 2016 and the king/queen attended his Papal inauguration in 2013.

https://www.newmyroyals.com/2016/04/dutch-royal-family-met-with-pope-in.html

I'm not sure if queens Wilhelmina or Juliana ever traveled to the Vatican and met with the Pontiff of the day.

 

[Stefan]

The Luxembourgian grand ducal family would be another example. Although that was by chance not by design. So, of course, opportunities that arise with a marriage could strategically be used in such case. However, that's still different than a bride coming into a royal family demanding that the family will follow her religion instead of agreeing to raise the children in the religion of the royal family's choosing.

But actually that was the cae in the luxemburgian Family. Had Maria Anna of Braganza agreed to raise all children protestant this would still be the religion of the GDF Family.

Another case is the present and only line of the House of Württemberg but at that time they became catholic it was only one of several junior lines.

 

[Somebody]

But actually that was the cae in the luxemburgian Family. Had Maria Anna of Braganza agreed to raise all children protestant this would still be the religion of the GDF Family.

Another case is the present and only line of the House of Württemberg but at that time they became catholic it was only one of several junior lines.

By design they expected the heir (i.e., all sons) being raised protestant... That they ended up with 6 daughters instead had the unexpected result that the family turned Catholic.

 

[cathy50]

I am new here and have a question concerning religion in the RF.
why was this so long the dutch royals could jot marry a catholic without loosing their place n succesion though so many catholic do live in the country? did the catholic people never rebel against this odd fact?
thank you, maybe there is already information somewhere but i did not see some yet.
i know maxima is catholic so i think now the rules are different

 

[Mbruno]

I am new here and have a question concerning religion in the RF.
why was this so long the dutch royals could jot marry a catholic without loosing their place n succesion though so many catholic do live in the country? did the catholic people never rebel against this odd fact?
thank you, maybe there is already information somewhere but i did not see some yet.
i know maxima is catholic so i think now the rules are different

The Dutch royals were never actually barred from marrying Roman Catholics. They just didn't do it because their family has been historically associated with the Protestant church since the 16th century and because, up to the mid-20th century at least, the majority of the Dutch population was still Protestant.


Dutch kings married women of other faiths though in the past. King Willem II for example married Grand Duchess Anna Pavlovna who was originally Russian Orthodox. I don't know if she ever converted to the Dutch Reformed church.


The only country AFAIK where it was explicitly prohibited for a successor to the Crown to marry a Roman Catholic and still remain in the line of succession was the UK, but that is no longer the case.



Many Protestant kingdoms still require the King to be Protestant though (namely Denmark, Norway, Sweden and obviously the UK). Queen Margrethe's late husband was Catholic and converted to the Lutheran church after marrying her although that was not legally required in Denmark.


As an Argentinian, you may remember that there was an expectation that Maxima would convert too and she even said she was considering it, but ultimately she never did it. I don't know if she is particularly religious, but I don't think she ever truly intended to leave the Catholic church.

 

[An Ard Ri]

Queen Anna's funeral service was conducted with the devine liturgy of the Russian Orthodox church by 3 Orthodox Priests and her chaplain and was buried at the Protestant Nieuwe Kerk in Delft .The King,Queen and Prince of Orange did not attend the Russian Orthodox Funeral Service at the Hague on March 17th.

 

[Somebody]

The Dutch royals were never actually barred from marrying Roman Catholics. They just didn't do it because their family has been historically associated with the Protestant church since the 16th century and because, up to the mid-20th century at least, the majority of the Dutch population was still Protestant.

Yes indeed, they were never barred from marrying Roman Catholics (William the Silent himself had Roman Catholic brides).

In addition, one of the reasons the family was so prominent (even before they officially became king they were stadtholders) was because of their fight against the Catholic Spaniards who fought to keep the Netherlands and to keep it part of the Roman Holy Empire - and, therefore, Catholic. Instead, the eighty years' war, with a leading role for the princes of Orange, resulted in an independent country and offered freedom to practice the protestant (Calvinist) religion - and even allowed the Catholics to practice their religion (which wasn't supported by everyone).

So, from this historical perspective, it made a lot of sense to expect the family of the Prince of Orange to be protestant as they needed to keep the Roman Catholics who previously did not look favorably upon those not being Catholic (to say it mildly) at bay.

 

[An Ard Ri]

Catholics were allowed to worship in secret but public Catholic worship was prohibited.All churches in the United Provinces were taken over by the Reformed church,the Dutch hierarchy was not restored until 1853.

 

[Somebody]

Catholics were allowed to worship in secret but public Catholic worship was prohibited.All churches in the United Provinces were taken over by the Reformed church,the Dutch hierarchy was not restored until 1853.

Yes, thanks for that important clarification. They would have church services in 'schuilkerken' (hide out churches) that couldn't be seen from the street. They weren't just used by Roman Catholics but also by the Remonstrants, Anabaptists and several other churches (that weren't part of the Dutch Reformed church). We even got married in such a church building

So, while their was 'freedom of conviction' there wasn't 'freedom of religion' - with the Dutch Reformed Church being THE church that all Dutch people were supposed to be members of. In addition, Jews were fully free to practice their religion. True to Dutch culture, there was a 'toleration policy' for schuilkerken. After a little while - if they paid and made sure that their church buildings weren't visible (in cities) or were outside of the village and clearly of a lesser prominence than the Dutch Reformed church they could organize their religious services.

 

[An Ard Ri]

The Dutch Reformed church had a very privileged position but was never made the State Religion,other faiths were tolerated .Roman Catholics only began to enjoy more religious freedom from the 19th Century onwards.

 

[Iain]

The Netherlands may not be Britain, but Wilhelmina was absolutely adamant in searching for a Protestant bridegroom for Juliana. I always assumed that was law, but I suppose it could have been personal conviction and religious fervor.

Not sure what she would make of Maxima!

When Wilhelmina returned to the Netherlands after the war, one of her first acts on Dutch soil was to attend a High Mass of Thanksgiving in Breda Cathedral, so she obviously had no problem with Catholicism.

 

[Alison H]

Mixed religion marriages were frowned upon by most people in the 1930s - not necessarily because they had a problem with other religions, but just from a "stick to your own kind" mindset, and the idea that it was important for future generations to be kept within the religious fold. Times have changed a lot since then. We'd all see things differently if we lived in different times.

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

When Wilhelmina returned to the Netherlands after the war, one of her first acts on Dutch soil was to attend a High Mass of Thanksgiving in Breda Cathedral, so she obviously had no problem with Catholicism.

The Great- or Our Lady's Church in Breda, with 6 centuries old Nassau graves, is a Protestant church.

On 1410 build as Catholic Church - seven years earlier, in 1403, Breda came in hands of the Nassaus as fief to the Duke of Brabant. In 1566 King Philip II of Spain, Duke of Brabant, confiscated all properties of Willem I of Nassau, Prince of Orange.

1577 Protestant - Breda conquered by Willem I van Nassau, Prince d'Orange
1581 Catholic - Breda conquered by Alessandro Farnese e Parma, Duca di Parma
1590 Protestant - Breda conquered by Maurits van Nassau, Prince d'Orange
1625 Catholic - Breda conquered by Ambrogio Spinola Doria e Grimaldi, Marchese di Balbases
1637 Protestant - Breda conquered by Frederik Hendrik van Nassau, Prince d'Orange

All Catholic elements were removed and an empty Protestant interior was the result. Right opposite the pulpit still is the - quite simple- bench for the Prince and Princess of Orange.

Picture:
http://www.lichtendekerk.nl/CMS/uploads/0interieur-Grote-Kerk-Breda.jpg

Picture: usually a bench is decorated with flowery arrangements when the King or Queen uses it. Right after the return of Queen Wilhelmina in Breda, 1945, it was sparse.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e5/Prinsenbank_Grote_Kerk_Breda_DSCF6037.JPG

 

[Iain]

The Great- or Our Lady's Church in Breda, with 6 centuries old Nassau graves, is a Protestant church.

On 1410 build as Catholic Church - seven years earlier, in 1403, Breda came in hands of the Nassaus as fief to the Duke of Brabant. In 1566 King Philip II of Spain, Duke of Brabant, confiscated all properties of Willem I of Nassau, Prince of Orange.

1577 Protestant - Breda conquered by Willem I van Nassau, Prince d'Orange
1581 Catholic - Breda conquered by Alessandro Farnese e Parma, Duca di Parma
1590 Protestant - Breda conquered by Maurits van Nassau, Prince d'Orange
1625 Catholic - Breda conquered by Ambrogio Spinola Doria e Grimaldi, Marchese di Balbases
1637 Protestant - Breda conquered by Frederik Hendrik van Nassau, Prince d'Orange

All Catholic elements were removed and an empty Protestant interior was the result. Right opposite the pulpit still is the - quite simple- bench for the Prince and Princess of Orange.

Picture:
http://www.lichtendekerk.nl/CMS/uploads/0interieur-Grote-Kerk-Breda.jpg

Picture: usually a bench is decorated with flowery arrangements when the King or Queen uses it. Right after the return of Queen Wilhelmina in Breda, 1945, it was sparse.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e5/Prinsenbank_Grote_Kerk_Breda_DSCF6037.JPG

This is not Breda cathedral. The cathedral is St Anthony's on Sint Janstraat and it was here that Queen Wilhelmina attended a Mass of thanksgiving.

 

[An Ard Ri]

The Great- or Our Lady's Church in Breda, with 6 centuries old Nassau graves, is a Protestant church.



1577 Protestant - Breda conquered by Willem I van Nassau, Prince d'Orange
1581 Catholic - Breda conquered by Alessandro Farnese e Parma, Duca di Parma
1590 Protestant - Breda conquered by Maurits van Nassau, Prince d'Orange
1625 Catholic - Breda conquered by Ambrogio Spinola Doria e Grimaldi, Marchese di Balbases
1637 Protestant - Breda conquered by Frederik Hendrik van Nassau, Prince d'Orange

Quite a lot of religious alterations I'm sure the Catholics restored the decoration each time only to be removed by the Calvinists and so on.

 

[Mbruno]

Would it be acceptable to the Dutch people and to the Dutch Royal House if Amalia for example decided to convert to Catholicism? I understand that only around 20 % of the Dutch population is now either Protestant or some form of non-Catholic Christian, so in principle it shouldn't be a big deal, but is it, given the history of the Orange-Nassau family and their connection to Protestantism?

I know it is unlikely that Amalia will convert (despite having a Catholic mother), but I am just asking a hypothetical question.

 

[Somebody]

Would it be acceptable to the Dutch people and to the Dutch Royal House if Amalia for example decided to convert to Catholicism? I understand that only around 20 % of the Dutch population is now either Protestant or some form of non-Catholic Christian, so in principle it shouldn't be a big deal, but is it, given the history of the Orange-Nassau family and their connection to Protestantism?

I know it is unlikely that Amalia will convert (despite having a Catholic mother), but I am just asking a hypothetical question.

It won't cause as much uproar as when her great-aunts did so in the 60s (and 90s - not much uproar at all as she wasn't constitutional relevant). A few people (among them the political party SGP) will be unhappy but if she would truly would want to, it won't have serious consequences unlike when princess Irene did the same. But I don't expect her to do so. The family doesn't seem overly religious (although the king stresses at time his personal faith), so my guess would be that she will remain protestant as that is the tradition.

 

[Alison H]

William: Prince of Wales says its been hardest year of his life

The Prince of Wales tells reporters his year has been "dreadful", following a difficult year for the royals.

www.bbc.co.uk

William's spoken about how this has been the toughest year of his life.

 

[Somebody]

Thanks for posting this. It's interesting that she says she was no longer able to receive Communion after her divorce. That is actually not the Church's teaching, unless she remarried.

Interestingly enough, I found this website upon looking into this: Ask Father Leo: Can a divorced Catholic receive Communion? - The North Star Catholic

I truly wonder what he is alluding to with the following sentence:

A final note: Once the process is complete and if the Tribunal finds that the attempted marriage was invalid, any children born of that marriage are not illegitimate. Unless they are in line to the Dutch throne, they are completely unaffected.

 

[kalnel]

Interestingly enough, I found this website upon looking into this: Ask Father Leo: Can a divorced Catholic receive Communion? - The North Star Catholic

I truly wonder what he is alluding to with the following sentence:

Wow, what an odd reference. I suspect he was making some random reference to royals who must be born of a valid marriage, but it's weird that he would mention the Dutch royals.

I don't think the Dutch royal house has ever had a restriction on religion, and I can't think of anyone who has lost their place in line to the Dutch throne because of religion in the past 150 years.

 

[Somebody]

Wow, what an odd reference. I suspect he was making some random reference to royals who must be born of a valid marriage, but it's weird that he would mention the Dutch royals.

I don't think the Dutch royal house has ever had a restriction on religion, and I can't think of anyone who has lost their place in line to the Dutch throne because of religion in the past 150 years.

While princess Irene officially didn't loose her place in the line of succession because of it (marrying a pretender to the Spanish throne was even more problematic), her becoming roman catholic upon marriage would have been prohibitive to remaining in the line of succession at that time - her parents (and sisters) didn't attend her wedding, which was among other things because it was a Roman-Catholic one at the Vatican. Even Willem-Alexander promised to raise his children as protestants when marrying a Roman Catholic bride.

However, this comment was about an annulment and none of the marriage of those in line to the Dutch throne were Roman-Catholic marriages (Máxima got an exemption and other didn't ask permission or were never or no longer in line to the throne), so any annulment would be irrelevant imho.

 

[kalnel]

While princess Irene officially didn't loose her place in the line of succession because of it (marrying a pretender to the Spanish throne was even more problematic), her becoming roman catholic upon marriage would have been prohibitive to remaining in the line of succession at that time - her parents (and sisters) didn't attend her wedding, which was among other things because it was a Roman-Catholic one at the Vatican. Even Willem-Alexander promised to raise his children as protestants when marrying a Roman Catholic bride.

However, this comment was about an annulment and none of the marriage of those in line to the Dutch throne were Roman-Catholic marriages (Máxima got an exemption and other didn't ask permission or were never or no longer in line to the throne), so any annulment would be irrelevant imho.

While there was some opposition to Irene marrying a Catholic, the royal family took pains to point out that they didn't attend the marriage because she had not received her mother's (or the government's) approval and had embarrassed them. They even watched it from the home of Bernhard's mother, who was herself Catholic.

Irene would have needed an annulment only if she wanted to remarry while Carlos Hugo. Since Carlos Hugo died many years ago, she is free to remarry in the Church.

(Christina would have been in a different position, since Jorge outlived her. She would have needed an annulment to remarry after their divorce.)

I've never been able to find a reference to the Catholic church approving Maxima's marriage to Willem Alexander. The only reference I could find was a Christianity Today story that noted the Dutch Cardinal Simonis saying he was "not enthusiastic" about the prospect of her converting. Since a Catholic priest did not perform the marriage, I doubt the church recognizes it officially. "After Much Debate, Dutch Churches Welcome Royal Engagement" - Christianity Today

 

[Somebody]

While there was some opposition to Irene marrying a Catholic, the royal family took pains to point out that they didn't attend the marriage because she had not received her mother's (or the government's) approval and had embarrassed them. They even watched it from the home of Bernhard's mother, who was herself Catholic.

Exactly, however, marrying and becoming a Roman Catholic would have been sufficient at the time not to approve the marriage.

Irene would have needed an annulment only if she wanted to remarry while Carlos Hugo. Since Carlos Hugo died many years ago, she is free to remarry in the Church.

(Christina would have been in a different position, since Jorge outlived her. She would have needed an annulment to remarry after their divorce.)

Given that neither of their children were ever in line to the throne, the comment by Father Leo still doesn't make sense.

I've never been able to find a reference to the Catholic church approving Maxima's marriage to Willem Alexander. The only reference I could find was a Christianity Today story that noted the Dutch Cardinal Simonis saying he was "not enthusiastic" about the prospect of her converting. Since a Catholic priest did not perform the marriage, I doubt the church recognizes it officially. "After Much Debate, Dutch Churches Welcome Royal Engagement" - Christianity Today

The bishop of Rotterdam, Ad van Luyn, gave dispensation (for both her marriage and the christening in the protestant church of her eventual children).

At the time there were more sources discussing it but at the moment I can only find this short online source: Maxima blijft katholiek