mathmannix
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Until 1801, the Kings and Queens of Great Britain, and before 1707 the Kings and Queens of England (Scotland, Ireland) also claimed to be Kings or Queens of France. (And the French fleurs-de-lis were part of the royal coat of arms.)
I have never seen an alternate list of Kings and Queens of France which recognizes this claim. I was wondering how the monarchs were numbered (based on what year the claim is first from), and if the regnal numbers were ever claimed in real life.
Here are several possiblilities:
********************************
If the claim was dated from 1328, when Edward III could have first claimed to be King of France as the nephew and successor of Charles IV, more closely related than the Valois branch, then we have:
HOUSE OF CAPET
Philip III the Bold (r.1270-1285)
Philip IV the Fair (d.1314), his son
Louis X the Headstrong (d.1316), his son
John I the Posthumous (d.1316), his son
Philip V the Tall (d.1322), son of Philip IV
Charles IV the Fair (d.1328), son of Philip IV
HOUSE OF PLANTAGENET (including LANCASTER and YORK)
Edward I (III of England) (d.1377), grandson of Philip IV
Richard I (II) (d.1400), his grandson, deposed 1399
Henry II (IV) (d.1413), grandson of Edward I (III)
Henry III (V) (d.1422), his son
Henry IV (VI) (d.1471), his son
Edward II (IV) (d.1483), great-great-grandson (and also 4x-great-grandson) of Edward I (III)
Edward III (V) (d.1483), his son
Richard II (III) (d.1485), brother of Edward II (IV)
HOUSE OF TUDOR
Henry V (VII) (d.1509), 3x-great-grandson of Edward I
Henry VI (VIII) (d.1547), his son (and also grandson of Edward II (IV))
Edward IV (VI) (d.1553), his son
HOUSE OF GREY (disputed)
Jane (ex.1554), great-granddaughter of Henry V (VII), Queen for nine days in 1553
HOUSE OF TUDOR (restored)
Mary I (d.1558), daughter of Henry VI (VIII)
Philip VI the Prudent (II of Spain, later I of Portugal) (d.1598), her husband (co-ruled with wife 1554-1558)
Elizabeth I (d.1603), daughter of Henry VI (VIII)
HOUSE OF STUART
James I (I of England [and Ireland], VI of Scotland) (d.1625), great-great-grandson of Henry V (VII)
Charles V (I of England and Scotland) (ex.1649), his son
Charles VI (II of England and Scotland) (d.1685), his son, restored 1660
James II (II of England, VII of Scotland) (d.1701), his brother, deposed 1688
Mary II (also Mary II of England and Scotland) (d.1694), his daughter, Queen from 1689
William I (III of England, II of Scotland) (d.1702), her husband (co-ruled with wife 1689-1694)
Anne (d.1714), daughter of James II (and VII)
HOUSE OF HANOVER
George I (d.1727), great-grandson of James I (and VI)
George II (d.1760), his son
George III (d.1820), his grandson; in 1801 his title changed from "King of Great Britain, France, and Ireland" to "King of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland", dropping all claims to France
********************************
If the claim was dated from 1340, when Edward III actually first claimed to be King of France, then we have:
HOUSE OF CAPET
Philip III the Bold (r.1270-1285)
Philip IV the Fair (d.1314), his son
Louis X the Headstrong (d.1316), his son
John I the Posthumous (d.1316), his son
Philip V the Tall (d.1322), son of Philip IV
Charles IV the Fair (d.1328), son of Philip IV
HOUSE OF VALOIS
Philip VI the Fortunate (d.1350), grandson of Philip III, r. 1328-1340
HOUSE OF PLANTAGENET (including LANCASTER and YORK)
Edward I (III of England) (d.1377), grandson of Philip IV
...
(In this version, the only difference after Edward I is that Philip II of Spain would be Philip VII of France.)
********************************
Edward III of England renounced his claim in 1360 (accepting the Treaty of Brétigny), but then took his claim up again in 1369. If we allow for the native French Kings during this time period (or first start the English claim in 1369) then we have:
HOUSE OF CAPET
Philip III the Bold (r.1270-1285)
Philip IV the Fair (d.1314), his son
Louis X the Headstrong (d.1316), his son
John I the Posthumous (d.1316), his son
Philip V the Tall (d.1322), son of Philip IV
Charles IV the Fair (d.1328), son of Philip IV
HOUSE OF VALOIS
Philip VI the Fortunate (d.1350), grandson of Philip III, ruled 1328-1340
HOUSE OF PLANTAGENET
Edward I (III of England) (d.1377), grandson of Philip IV, ruled 1340-1360
HOUSE OF VALOIS (restored)
John II the Good (d.1364), son of Philip VI
Charles V the Wise (d.1380), his son, ruled 1364-1369
HOUSE OF PLANTAGENET (restored, including LANCASTER and YORK)
Edward I (III of England) (d.1377), grandson of Philip IV, restored 1369
Richard I (II) (d.1400), his grandson, deposed 1399
Henry II (IV) (d.1413), grandson of Edward I (III)
Henry III (V) (d.1422), his son
Henry IV (VI) (d.1471), his son
Edward II (IV) (d.1483), great-great-grandson (and also 4x-great-grandson) of Edward I (III)
Edward III (V) (d.1483), his son
Richard II (III) (d.1485), brother of Edward II (IV)
HOUSE OF TUDOR
Henry V (VII) (d.1509), 3x-great-grandson of Edward I
Henry VI (VIII) (d.1547), his son (and also grandson of Edward II (IV))
Edward IV (VI) (d.1553), his son
HOUSE OF GREY (disputed)
Jane (ex.1554), great-granddaughter of Henry V (VII), Queen for nine days in 1553
HOUSE OF TUDOR (restored)
Mary I (d.1558), daughter of Henry VI (VIII)
Philip VII the Prudent (II of Spain, later I of Portugal) (d.1598), her husband (co-ruled with wife 1554-1558)
Elizabeth I (d.1603), daughter of Henry VI (VIII)
HOUSE OF STUART
James I (I of England [and Ireland], VI of Scotland) (d.1625), great-great-grandson of Henry V (VII)
Charles VI (I of England and Scotland) (ex.1649), his son
Charles VII (II of England and Scotland) (d.1685), his son, restored 1660
James II (II of England, VII of Scotland) (d.1701), his brother, deposed 1688
Mary II (also Mary II of England and Scotland) (d.1694), his daughter, Queen from 1689
William I (III of England, II of Scotland) (d.1702), her husband (co-ruled with wife 1689-1694)
Anne (d.1714), daughter of James II (and VII)
HOUSE OF HANOVER
George I (d.1727), great-grandson of James I (and VI)
George II (d.1760), his son
George III (d.1820), his grandson; in 1801 his title changed from "King of Great Britain, France, and Ireland" to "King of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland", dropping all claims to France
********************************
While all the Kings of England from 1369 (or earlier) DID claim to be King of France, it was not until 1420 that King Charles VI designated the King of England as his heir, giving (temporarily) greater strength to the English claim. If we date the claim from that point then we have:
HOUSE OF CAPET
Philip III the Bold (r.1270-1285)
Philip IV the Fair (d.1314), his son
Louis X the Headstrong (d.1316), his son
John I the Posthumous (d.1316), his son
Philip V the Tall (d.1322), son of Philip IV
Charles IV the Fair (d.1328), son of Philip IV
HOUSE OF VALOIS
Philip VI the Fortunate (d.1350), grandson of Philip III
John II the Good (d.1364), his son
Charles V the Wise (d.1380), his son
Charles VI the Beloved (d.1422), his son
HOUSE OF PLANTAGENET (LANCASTER and YORK)
Henry II (VI) (d.1471), his grandson
Edward I (IV) (d.1483), 4x-great-grandson of Philip III (2x-great-grandson of the sister of Philip VI)
Edward II (V) (d.1483), his son
Richard I (III) (d.1485), brother of Edward I (IV)
HOUSE OF TUDOR
Henry III (VII) (d.1509), great-grandson of Charles VI
Henry IV (VIII) (d.1547), his son (and also grandson of Edward I (IV))
Edward III (VI) (d.1553), his son
HOUSE OF GREY (disputed)
Jane (ex.1554), great-granddaughter of Henry III (VII), Queen for nine days in 1553
HOUSE OF TUDOR (restored)
Mary I (d.1558), daughter of Henry IV (VIII)
Philip VII the Prudent (II of Spain, later I of Portugal) (d.1598), her husband (co-ruled with wife 1554-1558)
Elizabeth I (d.1603), daughter of Henry IV (VIII)
HOUSE OF STUART
James I (I of England [and Ireland], VI of Scotland) (d.1625), great-great-grandson of Henry III (VII)
Charles VII (I of England and Scotland) (ex.1649), his son
Charles VIII (II of England and Scotland) (d.1685), his son, restored 1660
James II (II of England, VII of Scotland) (d.1701), his brother, deposed 1688
Mary II (also Mary II of England and Scotland) (d.1694), his daughter, Queen from 1689
William I (III of England, II of Scotland) (d.1702), her husband (co-ruled with wife 1689-1694)
Anne (d.1714), daughter of James II (and VII)
HOUSE OF HANOVER
George I (d.1727), great-grandson of James I (and VI)
George II (d.1760), his son
George III (d.1820), his grandson; in 1801 his title changed from "King of Great Britain, France, and Ireland" to "King of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland", dropping all claims to France
I have never seen an alternate list of Kings and Queens of France which recognizes this claim. I was wondering how the monarchs were numbered (based on what year the claim is first from), and if the regnal numbers were ever claimed in real life.
Here are several possiblilities:
********************************
If the claim was dated from 1328, when Edward III could have first claimed to be King of France as the nephew and successor of Charles IV, more closely related than the Valois branch, then we have:
HOUSE OF CAPET
Philip III the Bold (r.1270-1285)
Philip IV the Fair (d.1314), his son
Louis X the Headstrong (d.1316), his son
John I the Posthumous (d.1316), his son
Philip V the Tall (d.1322), son of Philip IV
Charles IV the Fair (d.1328), son of Philip IV
HOUSE OF PLANTAGENET (including LANCASTER and YORK)
Edward I (III of England) (d.1377), grandson of Philip IV
Richard I (II) (d.1400), his grandson, deposed 1399
Henry II (IV) (d.1413), grandson of Edward I (III)
Henry III (V) (d.1422), his son
Henry IV (VI) (d.1471), his son
Edward II (IV) (d.1483), great-great-grandson (and also 4x-great-grandson) of Edward I (III)
Edward III (V) (d.1483), his son
Richard II (III) (d.1485), brother of Edward II (IV)
HOUSE OF TUDOR
Henry V (VII) (d.1509), 3x-great-grandson of Edward I
Henry VI (VIII) (d.1547), his son (and also grandson of Edward II (IV))
Edward IV (VI) (d.1553), his son
HOUSE OF GREY (disputed)
Jane (ex.1554), great-granddaughter of Henry V (VII), Queen for nine days in 1553
HOUSE OF TUDOR (restored)
Mary I (d.1558), daughter of Henry VI (VIII)
Philip VI the Prudent (II of Spain, later I of Portugal) (d.1598), her husband (co-ruled with wife 1554-1558)
Elizabeth I (d.1603), daughter of Henry VI (VIII)
HOUSE OF STUART
James I (I of England [and Ireland], VI of Scotland) (d.1625), great-great-grandson of Henry V (VII)
Charles V (I of England and Scotland) (ex.1649), his son
Charles VI (II of England and Scotland) (d.1685), his son, restored 1660
James II (II of England, VII of Scotland) (d.1701), his brother, deposed 1688
Mary II (also Mary II of England and Scotland) (d.1694), his daughter, Queen from 1689
William I (III of England, II of Scotland) (d.1702), her husband (co-ruled with wife 1689-1694)
Anne (d.1714), daughter of James II (and VII)
HOUSE OF HANOVER
George I (d.1727), great-grandson of James I (and VI)
George II (d.1760), his son
George III (d.1820), his grandson; in 1801 his title changed from "King of Great Britain, France, and Ireland" to "King of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland", dropping all claims to France
********************************
If the claim was dated from 1340, when Edward III actually first claimed to be King of France, then we have:
HOUSE OF CAPET
Philip III the Bold (r.1270-1285)
Philip IV the Fair (d.1314), his son
Louis X the Headstrong (d.1316), his son
John I the Posthumous (d.1316), his son
Philip V the Tall (d.1322), son of Philip IV
Charles IV the Fair (d.1328), son of Philip IV
HOUSE OF VALOIS
Philip VI the Fortunate (d.1350), grandson of Philip III, r. 1328-1340
HOUSE OF PLANTAGENET (including LANCASTER and YORK)
Edward I (III of England) (d.1377), grandson of Philip IV
...
(In this version, the only difference after Edward I is that Philip II of Spain would be Philip VII of France.)
********************************
Edward III of England renounced his claim in 1360 (accepting the Treaty of Brétigny), but then took his claim up again in 1369. If we allow for the native French Kings during this time period (or first start the English claim in 1369) then we have:
HOUSE OF CAPET
Philip III the Bold (r.1270-1285)
Philip IV the Fair (d.1314), his son
Louis X the Headstrong (d.1316), his son
John I the Posthumous (d.1316), his son
Philip V the Tall (d.1322), son of Philip IV
Charles IV the Fair (d.1328), son of Philip IV
HOUSE OF VALOIS
Philip VI the Fortunate (d.1350), grandson of Philip III, ruled 1328-1340
HOUSE OF PLANTAGENET
Edward I (III of England) (d.1377), grandson of Philip IV, ruled 1340-1360
HOUSE OF VALOIS (restored)
John II the Good (d.1364), son of Philip VI
Charles V the Wise (d.1380), his son, ruled 1364-1369
HOUSE OF PLANTAGENET (restored, including LANCASTER and YORK)
Edward I (III of England) (d.1377), grandson of Philip IV, restored 1369
Richard I (II) (d.1400), his grandson, deposed 1399
Henry II (IV) (d.1413), grandson of Edward I (III)
Henry III (V) (d.1422), his son
Henry IV (VI) (d.1471), his son
Edward II (IV) (d.1483), great-great-grandson (and also 4x-great-grandson) of Edward I (III)
Edward III (V) (d.1483), his son
Richard II (III) (d.1485), brother of Edward II (IV)
HOUSE OF TUDOR
Henry V (VII) (d.1509), 3x-great-grandson of Edward I
Henry VI (VIII) (d.1547), his son (and also grandson of Edward II (IV))
Edward IV (VI) (d.1553), his son
HOUSE OF GREY (disputed)
Jane (ex.1554), great-granddaughter of Henry V (VII), Queen for nine days in 1553
HOUSE OF TUDOR (restored)
Mary I (d.1558), daughter of Henry VI (VIII)
Philip VII the Prudent (II of Spain, later I of Portugal) (d.1598), her husband (co-ruled with wife 1554-1558)
Elizabeth I (d.1603), daughter of Henry VI (VIII)
HOUSE OF STUART
James I (I of England [and Ireland], VI of Scotland) (d.1625), great-great-grandson of Henry V (VII)
Charles VI (I of England and Scotland) (ex.1649), his son
Charles VII (II of England and Scotland) (d.1685), his son, restored 1660
James II (II of England, VII of Scotland) (d.1701), his brother, deposed 1688
Mary II (also Mary II of England and Scotland) (d.1694), his daughter, Queen from 1689
William I (III of England, II of Scotland) (d.1702), her husband (co-ruled with wife 1689-1694)
Anne (d.1714), daughter of James II (and VII)
HOUSE OF HANOVER
George I (d.1727), great-grandson of James I (and VI)
George II (d.1760), his son
George III (d.1820), his grandson; in 1801 his title changed from "King of Great Britain, France, and Ireland" to "King of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland", dropping all claims to France
********************************
While all the Kings of England from 1369 (or earlier) DID claim to be King of France, it was not until 1420 that King Charles VI designated the King of England as his heir, giving (temporarily) greater strength to the English claim. If we date the claim from that point then we have:
HOUSE OF CAPET
Philip III the Bold (r.1270-1285)
Philip IV the Fair (d.1314), his son
Louis X the Headstrong (d.1316), his son
John I the Posthumous (d.1316), his son
Philip V the Tall (d.1322), son of Philip IV
Charles IV the Fair (d.1328), son of Philip IV
HOUSE OF VALOIS
Philip VI the Fortunate (d.1350), grandson of Philip III
John II the Good (d.1364), his son
Charles V the Wise (d.1380), his son
Charles VI the Beloved (d.1422), his son
HOUSE OF PLANTAGENET (LANCASTER and YORK)
Henry II (VI) (d.1471), his grandson
Edward I (IV) (d.1483), 4x-great-grandson of Philip III (2x-great-grandson of the sister of Philip VI)
Edward II (V) (d.1483), his son
Richard I (III) (d.1485), brother of Edward I (IV)
HOUSE OF TUDOR
Henry III (VII) (d.1509), great-grandson of Charles VI
Henry IV (VIII) (d.1547), his son (and also grandson of Edward I (IV))
Edward III (VI) (d.1553), his son
HOUSE OF GREY (disputed)
Jane (ex.1554), great-granddaughter of Henry III (VII), Queen for nine days in 1553
HOUSE OF TUDOR (restored)
Mary I (d.1558), daughter of Henry IV (VIII)
Philip VII the Prudent (II of Spain, later I of Portugal) (d.1598), her husband (co-ruled with wife 1554-1558)
Elizabeth I (d.1603), daughter of Henry IV (VIII)
HOUSE OF STUART
James I (I of England [and Ireland], VI of Scotland) (d.1625), great-great-grandson of Henry III (VII)
Charles VII (I of England and Scotland) (ex.1649), his son
Charles VIII (II of England and Scotland) (d.1685), his son, restored 1660
James II (II of England, VII of Scotland) (d.1701), his brother, deposed 1688
Mary II (also Mary II of England and Scotland) (d.1694), his daughter, Queen from 1689
William I (III of England, II of Scotland) (d.1702), her husband (co-ruled with wife 1689-1694)
Anne (d.1714), daughter of James II (and VII)
HOUSE OF HANOVER
George I (d.1727), great-grandson of James I (and VI)
George II (d.1760), his son
George III (d.1820), his grandson; in 1801 his title changed from "King of Great Britain, France, and Ireland" to "King of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland", dropping all claims to France
