Future of the Dutch Monarchy

An Ard Ri said:

10 years ago it would have been unimaginable but now I'm not so sure .
Queen Beatrix left the Dutch Crown in a stronger position than it is 10 years on.

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lol leftist republican parties combine just had their worst results ever a pro monarchy party won I think the crown is very safe.

The big winner of the election - the extreme right PVV of Mr Wilders- wants to decrease the budget of the king with 20% ánd make him pay taxes, which will mean a further decrease of 50%. Or even more if the family fortune will be assessed and taxed.

The party has heavily critisized Queen Beatrix and Princess Máxima in the past for their own benefit. As the party speaks about a 'fake parlament' and 'fake judges' and they seem to want to demolish all institutions in the Netherlands their support for the monarchy may be paper thin at best. Though for now they may have other priorities.

A poll from 2019 shows that the supporters of the extreme right parties PVV and FvD are the least positive about the monarchy. More so than the parties on the left. I suspect that the rise of the populist extreme right and their constant assault on our institutions these last 15 years is a very big factor in the relatively low poll numbers for the King.

Thanks for chiming in Marengo. Mr. Wilders is, to put it lightly, a bit of a mixed bag. One would think being a party of the right he would support the Monarchy but he very clearly does not. In fact, many of his policies aren't exactly "right-wing". His policies are all over the political spectrum, some good and some bad. Much of his language, personal belief's, and campaigns are atrocious. Whether or not he will be able to form a coalition and be PM remains to be seen.

There are many, many issues facing the Netherlands. The Monarchy is an easy target but getting a majority of MP's or political parties to agree on a course of action for the Monarchy will be difficult. Unfortunately, attacking the Monarchy and other established institutions is a great distraction and populist technique.

Saragli said:

Thanks for chiming in Marengo. Mr. Wilders is, to put it lightly, a bit of a mixed bag. One would think being a party of the right he would support the Monarchy but he very clearly does not. In fact, many of his policies aren't exactly "right-wing". His policies are all over the political spectrum, some good and some bad. Much of his language, personal belief's, and campaigns are atrocious. Whether or not he will be able to form a coalition and be PM remains to be seen.

There are many, many issues facing the Netherlands. The Monarchy is an easy target but getting a majority of MP's or political parties to agree on a course of action for the Monarchy will be difficult. Unfortunately, attacking the Monarchy and other established institutions is a great distraction and populist technique.

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Based on his voting pattern (and therefore that of all other members of his party in parliament as he is effectively an absolute ruler within his party - as he is the sole member of his own party -), he can definitely be characterized as right wing. Even though in public he often suggests that he supports policies that will benefit those with a lower social economic status (which often might be considered left wing policies), the party's voting pattern shows that he is more right wing than the liberal party VVD.

Somebody said:

Based on his voting pattern (and therefore that of all other members of his party in parliament as he is effectively an absolute ruler within his party - as he is the sole member of his own party -), he can definitely be characterized as right wing. Even though in public he often suggests that he supports policies that will benefit those with a lower social economic status (which often might be considered left wing policies), the party's voting pattern shows that he is more right wing than the liberal party VVD.

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the Pvv is not a party it why they dont get funding from the state its llike a pac sort of.

The Dutch Monarchy

PhillyMonarchist said:

lol leftist republican parties combine just had their worst results ever a pro monarchy party won I think the crown is very safe.

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Iam Dutch and a staunch monarchist, love the Dutch flag and I can still sing the Dutch national anthem and live in Melbourne Aust.40 years and of course I can still speak fluent Dutch and I love the House of Orange and my family are staunch monarchists. So, there you have it.

Pieter Omtzigt (party leader of one of the four parties in the new cabinet) is advocating to limit the work of members of the royal house to ceremonial tasks only - or at least that the ministerial responsibility is reduced in some way for other activities. He specifically mentions Laurentien who is actively involved with the political very sensitive benefits scandal (of which Pieter Omtzigt has been one of the advocates in parliament) but also queen's Máxima's role regarding microcredits for the UN.

However, in his attempt to show the importance of Laurentien, he seems very ill-informed as he also claims that 'because of Amalia's young age', her uncle Prince Constantijn would temporarily be the head of state if something would happen to Willem-Alexander in the next 10 years. He must have missed that Amalia turned 18 last year and that the Netherlands previously had an 18-year old reigning queen in Wilhelmina - her mother was only regent for 8 years, while she was still a minor.

See (in Dutch):
Geert Wilders (party leader of the largest party) states on X that he agrees with Pieter Omtzigt on this issue.

I'm not sure what they expect Constantijn and Laurentien (and later on Alexia and Ariane) to do all day as they only perform a few ceremonial tasks a year (and do NOT receive money from the government either, so need to find a way to support themselves). I understand it is a delicate balance in what they can and cannot do, and I don't think Laurentien managed it very well in this case, but this 'solution' doesn't seem to be a solution at all.

it is highly irregular to publish this in a newspaper. His party is in government now. If he wants to do this he can write a proposal. As he himself is the one politician who always bangs on about how everything should go by the book -which this does not- one can only conclude this is a cheap trick to get airtime.

In any case such a plan will require a change of the constitution: proposal in the 2nd chamber, approval in the first ánd second chamber, dissolution of both chambers of parlament, a vote in the new chambers and a 2/3 majority for the proposal in each chamber.

Not the quick sollution he promises.

Few politicians went quicker from hero to zero than he did. We have seen his pettiness to the former prime minister last month. I have no doubt that his ego could not handle Laurentien now getting credits for solving this mess and not him. The christian democrats were right about him after all.

So IMO if you want to control the activities of members of the Royal Family you have to provide them with a way to live a life, ideally paying them a salary but if not that far then at least providing them with housing etc.

In other words, if he isn't happy with Laurentine doing what she does IMO you then need to pay/ provide an allowance for Laurentine in the way WA, Max, Beatrix and CA are provided (if not as much of course). You can't have it both ways - provide for them and then quite rightly you can control and limit their activities, if you don't then they can do what they want within certain parameters (nothing illegal, morally questionable etc).

tommy100 said:

So IMO if you want to control the activities of members of the Royal Family you have to provide them with a way to live a life, ideally paying them a salary but if not that far then at least providing them with housing etc.

In other words, if he isn't happy with Laurentine doing what she does IMO you then need to pay/ provide an allowance for Laurentine in the way WA, Max, Beatrix and CA are provided (if not as much of course). You can't have it both ways - provide for them and then quite rightly you can control and limit their activities, if you don't then they can do what they want within certain parameters (nothing illegal, morally questionable etc).

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From what I read happening for years in my birth country, Spain, to what I see here in the USA living more than half of my 63-year-old life in Connecticut and now in New York local governments, there's always a trend from subordinates with power hungry inclinations to diminish the attention of those to be in charge.

For example, the local mini county and city/town/village governments minor Board officials tend to vote or prevent the elected mayor, or other names used, to be the one on the press getting all the attention. Mainly because subordinates go invisible. Well, same thing I see with this article about Netherlands. Elected officers want to be themselves the ones getting the attention over the descendants of the one family tree that started in the year 1100 and whose direct ancestor William the Silent started to shape the area into the kingdom that is today.

When King William and Queen Maxima and family go and meet with dignitaries and represent the country around the world, they are a walking museum of the history not just for Netherlands but for Europe itself. Can any elected politician be representing the specific goals of a political sector, that doesn't include the opposing views, say the same? Absolutely no.

But envy is a powerful motive for politicians that want to limit or scheme to remove monarchs to place themselves in their royals' shoes. Is not about reducing the duties to save any money, is all about politicians wanting to be the ones traveling, shaking hands with leaders and creating their micro royal court and passing it as elected officials that only represent one sector of Netherlands.

Is Pieter Omtzigt actually even taken seriously in the Netherlands?

An Ard Ri said:

Is Pieter Omtzigt actually even taken seriously in the Netherlands?

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honestly? of the ones currently forming the 'ruling political parties' for several people he's the most 'reliable' one (says more about the others than about him)

I admit I don't follow Laurentien and was wondering what involvement the kings sister in law had with the sensitive benefits scandal that has her in such high regard with Pieter Omtzigt?

Sorry if this is off topic!

An Ard Ri said:

I admit I don't follow Laurentien and was wondering what involvement the kings sister in law had with the sensitive benefits scandal that has her in such high regard with Pieter Omtzigt?

Sorry if this is off topic!

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i'll share this article, mind you, it's not necessarily neutral, but it illustrates the issues some people may have with it
Bemoeienis prinses Laurentien met toeslagenaffaire is zeer ongewenst
in dutch, i hope you can use a browsertranslator for the english translation

I read the article as best as I could - still not sure what "the benefit affair" is but ultimately I think the same arguments used can be used about a lot of things. These days is seems almost everything is political - perhaps because of 24 hr news and social media and the political parties jumping on to comment on every little thing. So if we take this suggestions where does it stop? Is talking about the environment political - what if one party doesn't agree with the way to best "go green"...is talking about mental health support taken as criticism of the public services for that which are available etc etc.

I'd also add that looking at Laurentien's official page on the Dutch royal website her patronages seems pretty uncontroversial to me, does she do other things "unofficially" which are now causing a fuss?

This topic has been the major political scandal for the last few years in Dutch politics (mostly because members of parliament Pieter Omtzigt and Renske Leijten made sure that it would not go away and kept asking for proper compensation for those affected), so Laurentien knew what she was getting herself involved in - surely with the best intentions to be of help in solving this complex issue but that it was something that could blow up in her face cannot have come as a surprise.

And Laurentien was not just advocating for a solution in general (which would not have been controversial) but actively proposed a specific (generous and therefore expensive) compensation method and is involved in the execution of that plan.