British Royal Family Genealogy


If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.

Claire

Heir Presumptive
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United Kingdom
I've so much wanted to ask quesions of a genealogical base. Bear said that we could place this forum, but nobody did, or maybe they did and I can't find it. (sorry). So here we can place links to our favourite genealogy sites, ask questions and hopefully get a few answered.

Here's a few Links to get us started:

The Peerage: http://www.thepeerage.com

My Genealogy page: http://www.angelfire.com/celeb2/ceg_20020/docs/genealogy.htm

Here's my questions:

How is Lord Louis of Hesse related to the British Royal Family, besides him been Prince Edward's godfather. I know that the Duke of Edinburgh's sisiter, Cecille and her family was killed on route to his wedding. But where does he fit in.

How is Lady Alexander Etherington, one of Lady Louise's god mother's related to Prince Edward. In the press release for Louise's christening they said that she is a distant relative, how?

Claire
 
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England, Scotland, Wales and Ireland

I'm interested in French-Canadian genealogy (particularly Quebec) and when I was at Ancestry.com I read Camilla shares ancestors with... Celine Dion and Madonna.

A fuller explanation of Camilla's genealogy can be found at www.wargs.com/royal/camilla.html

I wonder if, because of the scarcity of early settlers in Quebec, if Camilla and I might be related. Maybe that explains my "Material Girl" tendencies! :)
 
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Camilla is related to Celine Dion and Madonna??

I do know her great grandmother, Alice Keppel, was mistress to Edward VII and may be related to Charles through her grandmother Sonia Cubitt. Some believe Sonia to be the "natural" child of Alice and Edward VII. Sonia Cubitt never discussed the matter during her lifetime.
 
Apparently, Madonna and Celine share ancestors from Quebec with Camilla.

Camilla is also a descendant of James VI and I.

Who knew?
 
Well, quite a lot of the British upper classes are descended illegitimately from Charles II, which means they were descended from James I. Not sure that all that many are legitimate descendents of those monarchs, though!
 
I am the Queen of Royal genealogy! I have been drawing up family trees by hand since I was 6. It is the one thing I never get bored of and am good at!
Claire said:
How is Lord Louis of Hesse related to the British Royal Family, besides him been Prince Edward's godfather. I know that the Duke of Edinburgh's sisiter, Cecille and her family was killed on route to his wedding. But where does he fit in.

How is Lady Alexander Etherington, one of Lady Louise's god mother's related to Prince Edward. In the press release for Louise's christening they said that she is a distant relative, how?
Louis was a brother of Georg Dontus and brother-in-law of Cecile, who died on the way to his wedding. Louis and his wife adopted Georg and Cecile's only surviving child Johanna.

Lady Alexandra Etherington is a daughter of the Duke of Fife and a great grand daughter of Princess Louise (Edward VII's second daughter) making her a 3rd couisn of Prince Edward.
 
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Elizabeth_Leona said:
Louis was a brother of Georg Dontus and brother-in-law of Cecile, who died on the way to his wedding. Louis and his wife adopted Georg and Cecile's only surviving child Johanna.

Cecile was, of course, one of Prince Philip's sisters.
 
chrissy57 said:
Cecile was, of course, one of Prince Philip's sisters.

yeppers and a great grand daughter of Queen Victoria and a second cousin of her own husband :confused:
 
Elizabeth_Leona said:
yeppers and a great grand daughter of Queen Victoria and a second cousin of her own husband :confused:

First cousin once removed.
 
whats the difference between second cousin and first cousin once removed?
 
Zonk1189 said:
whats the difference between second cousin and first cousin once removed?

The "removed" designation indicates that while there is a cousinship, it is not of the same generation; the number removed indicates the number of generations different. First cousins share a set of grandparents.
 
And, what is somewhat wierd, since Cecile married a first cousin once removed, she was second cousin to her own children.

But that's not an unusual thing when you get into royal relationships.
 
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What is Prince Phillips relation to Queen Margrethe of Denmark?

I know Prince Phillip was a Prince of Greece and Denmark, so what is his relationship to the Danish Queen and Prince Frederik? Are Charles and Frederik distant cousins? Thanks if you can help :) .
 
They are distant cousins but I can never work out cousins relationships so I will give you the descent from the common ancestors.


Christian IX of Denmark - Frederick VIII - Christian X - Frederick IX - Margrethe II - CP Frederick

Christian IX of Denmark - William (George I of the Hellenes) - Andrew - Philip - Charles

Christian IX of Denmark - Alexandra - George V - George VI - Elizabeth II - Charles


Queen Victoria - Arthur, Duke of Connaught - Margaret (Crown Princess of Sweden) - Ingrid - Margrethe II - CP Frederick

Queen Victoria - Alice - Victoria - Alice - Philip - Charles

Queen Victoria - Edward VII - George V - George VI - Elizabeth II - Charles


There may even be other descents but these are the main ones. As you can see Charles and Frederick are cousins through a number of different lines of descent from both Queen Victoria and King Christian IX of Denmark.

Everyone knows Victoria was referred to as the Grandmother of Europe when she died in 1901 but fewer people seem aware of the fact that Christian was the Grandfather of Europe when he died in 1906, with three of his children being Kings (one of coures inherited his title) or Queens Consort and one child a Dowager Empress by the time he died. By that measure he does better than Victoria - Frederick and William become kings and Alexandra and DAgmar Queens or Empresses while Victoria 'only' has Victoria as an Empress and Bertie as a king. Sure her grandchildren marry into these positions but only two of her children are ever in the position of monarch or consort compared to Christian having four. I know Alice married a Grand Duke and Alfred also became one but they are not 'monarch's.
 
Prince Andrew of Greece (Prince Phillip's father) was the grandson of Christian IX of Denmark. Prince Phillip is thus the great grandson of Christian IX. Prince Charles is the great great grandson of Christian IX.

Queen Margrethe is the great great granddaughter of Christian IX. Charles and Margrethe are third cousins (if I did the math correctly.)

Edit: And then there's the extra lines mentioned above. Which also makes Phillip and Margrethe third cousins.
 
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Thank you! It is interesting to see that they are related in more than one way. I know over the years the royal family's relationships are going to get even wider. I think that might be a good thing so that things will not be so confusing or complicated. It is such a breath of fresh air to have new blood marry into these families, such as Diana and Mary of Denmark.
 
I think they might also be related by their ancestrey from the Russian,Romanian and German side, but I'm not sure.They would also be related by marriage through her sister, and his marriage to Queen Elizabeth. I think their great-grandparents were married, there was a few,I can't remember any of it anymore
 
You're right Princess Aussie ;). Queen Margrethe II of Denmark and Prince Philip are related through the German side (the Danish Royal Family is and was actually German---so was QV's family).

King Christian IX, father of George I of Greece, thus great-grandather of Prince Philip, was the eighth of ten children born to Frederik, the first Duke of Schleswig-Holstein and HIS wife, Princess Louise of Hesse. I'm not positive, but I think he was elected to be King of Denmark, and so his family has ruled since then.

Frederik, 1st Duke Schleswig-Holstein----Christian IX----George I of Greece---Andrew---Philip

Frederik, 1st Duke Schleswig-Holstein----Christian IX----Frederik VIII----Christian X----Frederik IX---Margarethe II

So I THINK that Margrethe and Philip are either 3rd or 2nd cousins once removed or something on the Danish/German side. I don't think they're related through Russian or Romanian royalty, but I'm not positive.

Philip and Margarethe II are also related to the other Scandinavian royal houses. Margarethe's mother, Ingrid, was the daughter of King Gustav VI Adolf of Sweden and HIS wife Princess Margaret of Connaught, one of Queen Victoria's granddaughters through her son Arthur. Margaret (or Daisy)'s mother was Princess Louise Margrethe of Prussia.
 
Leslie2006 said:
Philip and Margarethe II are also related to the other Scandinavian royal houses. Margarethe's mother, Ingrid, was the daughter of King Gustav VI Adolf of Sweden and HIS wife Princess Margaret of Connaught, one of Queen Victoria's granddaughters through her son Arthur. Margaret (or Daisy)'s mother was Princess Louise Margrethe of Prussia.
Here's another line of descent:

Queen Victoria----Arthur, Duke of Connaught----Margaret (Crown Princess of Sweden)----Ingrid (Queen Consort of Denmark)----Margrethe II

Queen Victoria----Alice (Grand Duchess of Hesse & bei Rhine)----Victoria (Battenberg)----Alice (Princess Andrew of Greece)----Philip
 
geneological table from William 1 to Henry VI

Does anyone know where I could get a link showing the geneological table from William the Conqueror to Henry VI?

I don't just want the list of kings - I know that - but the actual descent to Henry VI and I am being too lazy to look it up and I am at school and need it for a friend's lesson prep on the Wars of the Roses.
 
I did make one Chrissy - I think it's a through threads back called, "Germans?".

From Alfred the Great to William V
http://www.theroyalforums.com/forums/f23/germans-7605-2.html

I should explain Chrissy that the green shows where they were born, the blue shows their fathers nationality and the pink shows their mothers nationality.
 
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Any table that includes the complications of the Plantagenet succession is going to be convoluted. Good thing Sam did all that work on it!
 
BeatrixFan's Homework

Originally posted by BeatrixFan, here.
.......................................................
22 October 2005
This is my second investigation. On this one, I did things a little differently.

I decided to start at Alfred the Great and used the Jus Soli rule - wherever a person was born, that was their nationality.

For Example;

Edward VII

His Paternal Nationality is German
His Maternal Nationality is English*
His Jus Soli Nationality is English

*Based on Jus Soli not on nationality of mother and father

So, what we have is a tree based on Jus Soli that can be used in various ways. If you want to determine nationality by paternal line, then follow the blue nationalities, making changes as you go - do the opposite for maternal.

The Lines do not show 'The Son/Daughter of' but just seperate each Monarch.













As you can see, there have been several breaks in the 'English' Monarchs.

The First Break comes after Edward II - he was succeeded by the Danish King Canute resulting in Danish Monarchs.

This is again broken after HarthaCanute - he was succeeded by the English King, Edward the Confessor.

This is broken by the Hungarian Edgar II. After Edgar, we get William the Conqueror - the first French King of England.

The line goes back and forth between French and English Monarchs until Henry II when it seems to stablise. English Monarchs reign until James I, who is the first Scottish King of England.

From Charles I - William III, the English line is unbroken. William III is Dutch, but the line once again goes back to the English with the accession of Queen Anne.

Germans then come into play. George I and George II are German Kings of England interrupted by George III. He stablises the line resulting in English Monarchs up until today.

HOWEVER, that is only based on the use of Jus Soli which is the official way of determining nationality (lucky for the British Royal Family). The Jus Soli rule means that they can boast English nationality since George III - or can they? If based on Maternal Nationality, things are little different - and again, based on Paternal Nationality, things are different.

Paternally, Alfred the Great is again, a true English King. The Line continues to Canute - the Danish King. This means that Harold I and HarthaCanute are Danish, as is every other monarch until William I, a French King.
French Monarchs reign until Henry VII - a huge space in time.

Henry VII is the first true English King since Alfred the Great, after a period of French and Danish Monarchs. His Son, Henry VIII and Henry VIII's children, Edward VI, Mary I and Elizabeth I all enjoy being pure English Monarchs based on paternal nationality. The English monarchs continue until William III - Dutch of course. Queen Anne takes the line back to the English until George I when we get our German Monarchs.

George I is the first German monarch. And he is totally German as far as paternal lines go. It means that every monarch since George I has been German including Queen Elizabeth II.

Her son will be the first Greek King of England based on his father's paternal nationality.

The Maternal Line proves to be even more colourful!

From Alfred the Great to Edmund II all is well. English through and through. Canute interrupts the English Kings but based on maternal nationality, the English Kings continue through until Edgar II.

William the Conqueror comes along and begins the French line. His wife, Mathilda of Flanders, is French. This makes William II French, and Henry I, French Kings of England.

King Stephen is also French and the French line continues through until Edward II who is Spanish through his mother, Eleanor of Castille. By marrying Isabella of France, Edward secures the French line which carries on until Henry IV - who is English - the English Kings return.

Every King is English until Henry V. He marries Catherine of Valois. His son is Henry VI who is once again a French King of England.

The English Kings return under Edward IV but based on maternal nationality, Edward's son, Edward V is Luxembourgish. The first Luxembourgish King of England.

Richard III restores the English line which continues through to George I. Even the Dutch William III had an English mother and so maternally, was an English King of England.

George I isn't a German King, rather, he is a Dutch King. By marrying Sophia of Celle, he makes the line German. This continues until Edward VII who marries the Danish, Alexandra.

George V is Danish, but by marrying the German (through maternal line) Mary, he ensures that his sons, Edward VIII and George VI are German. Elizabeth II becomes an English Queen through her English mother, Lady Elizabeth Bowes-Lyon. This secures that Charles III will be and English King, and through his first wife, his son, William V will also be an English King.

TO SUM UP

By using the Jus Soli method, the current Queen is most definately English.
By using the Paternal method, the current Queen is most definately German.
By Using the Maternal method, the current Queen is most definately English.
 
It may be too late for your purposes Chrissy, but for future reference the British Monarchy official website has some great PDF down-loadable family trees.

As an example, here is the link to the Plantagenets.
The PDF clickable file is located in the bottom right-hand corner.
 
I find all of the so fasinating. I love royal geneology. It really shows that almost all of the royal families of Europe are related to each other in one way or another. It also showed the Queen Victoria was really the "grandmother of Europe" she linked everyone together.
 
Isn't it Ironic

This is me being a total geek, but I just spent an hour on the Queen Victoria thread, and it was a lot more fun then watching summer re-runs. Genealogy has always been a side hobby of mine, especially in the what if cases. This one is my favorite (I know everything is very simplified but its genealogy, not a book ;) )

James II - King of England, converted to Catholicism and was deposed, his two Protestant daughters became the next monarchs Mary then Anne, but if history went a little differently here is what would have happened.

James II would have been followed by his son James, who in turn would have been followed by his son Charles who did not have legitimate issue was followed by his brother Henry, the last to try to claim the throne he was also a Catholic cardinal and did not have any children.

This part I need some help on Henry (full name Henry Benedict Stuart) passed the line on to his cousin Charles Emmanuel IV of Sardinia, who was related through James II sister Heniretta, but I seem to be missing someone here.

Anyways back to the story, Charles is next he doesn't claim the throne but loved his wife so much that after she died he became a monk (ahhhh). Charles claim as well as King of Sardinia went to his brother Victor. (Sidenote Sardinia’s capital was Turin now part of Italy). Victor was followed by his daughter Maria who was followed by her son Francis. Some more sidenotes Francis did not have any childern. His estate went to the ill fated Franz Ferdinand well the claim went to his niece Mary who had 13 children (eek). Mary was followed by her son Rupprecht, who was followed by his son Albrecht. Albrecht son Franz does not have any children so the next in line after him will be his second son Max.

....and here is where the irony is. Max will be followed by his daughter Sophie who in turn will be followed by her oldest son Joseph. Joseph becomes the first person since James (born at St. JamesPalace) in this long line to have been born in England, he is also the heir through his father to Liechtenstein
 
Genealogy for Scotland's House of Stewart

:) royal trivia foot note:
For the Royal Watchers of the Duchess of Alba, her House is listed as descendant of the Stewart Kings on the bottom section Part 5, number 3 letter K

Genealogy of the United Kingdom from the year 325 to the year 2005.
All the family charts are on easy pdf form.

I know of another site that I'll find later on the week that lists the ancestors of Queen Elizabeth II all the way to the Egyptian Ptolomeis in many female line branches. That is another misconception we frequently have, that just because the main male branch became extinct does not mean the line ceased to exist through the female line. In the case of Queen Elizabeth as well as the other Royals, they all trace their history to pre-Christian era times.

Another site with the genealogy of the House of Hannover-Saxe Coburg Gotha-Windsor
 
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Oppie said:
This part I need some help on Henry (full name Henry Benedict Stuart) passed the line on to his cousin Charles Emmanuel IV of Sardinia, who was related through James II sister Heniretta, but I seem to be missing someone here.
Yes, after the death of Henry Benedict Stuart, the Jacobite claim then goes to the descendants of Henrietta Anne, known as Minette, the youngest daughter of Charles I. Here is the link from Charles I to Charles Emmanuel IV of Sardinia.

Charles I > Henrietta Anne, Duchess of Orleans > Anne Marie, Queen of Sardinia > Charles Emmanuel III of Sardinia > Victor Amadeus III of Sardinia > Charles Emmanuel IV of Sardinia

Here is a genealogical table showing the Jacobite kings and their heirs:
http://www.jacobite.ca/gentree.htm

 
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