Christening of Prince Julian: August 14, 2021

[principessa]

Prince Julian will be christened 14-08-2021 at Drottningsholm slottskyrka.

https://www.kungahuset.se/press/pre...rinsjuliansdop.5.24854966179eb58359111c1.html

 

[LadyFinn]

Prince Julian will be christened 14-08-2021 at Drottningsholm slottskyrka.

https://www.kungahuset.se/press/pre...rinsjuliansdop.5.24854966179eb58359111c1.html

The press release tells that this christening is not broadcast live on TV. Starting from Victoria's christening in 1977, all christenings of the royal family have been broadcast on TV.

The entire guest list will only be published shortly before the christening. But it is clear that the closest family is present. Margareta Thorgren said to Expressen that this involves the king and queen, and children and grandchildren.
Much about the ceremony depends at the same time on the state of the pandemic and current restrictions. Thorgren said that now the date is set and then they get to see how many people can be at the church and things like that. There is still the pandemic and that controls a little. But you can say that it will be a little smaller christening due to the pandemic.
Då ska prins Julian döpas – närmsta familjen deltar _ Kungligt _ Expressen

 

[An Ard Ri]

Prince Julian will be christened 14-08-2021 at Drottningsholm slottskyrka.

https://www.kungahuset.se/press/pre...rinsjuliansdop.5.24854966179eb58359111c1.html

Thanks for that update I was wondering if the Prince would baptized privately.

 

[JR76]

The press release tells that this christening is not broadcast live on TV. Starting from Victoria's christening in 1977, all christenings of the royal family have been broadcast on TV.

No surprises there. It's all in line with the reformed royal family. I wonder if people will kick up a storm like they did when it was announced that one of Princess Madeleine's children wouldn't get a televised christening.

Edit: - People on Facebook are already protesting against the decision not to broadcast the christening.

 

[Tatiana Maria]

No surprises there. It's all in line with the reformed royal family. I wonder if people will kick up a storm like they did when it was announced that one of Princess Madeleine's children wouldn't get a televised christening.

Edit: - People on Facebook are already protesting against the decision not to broadcast the christening.

But in the case of Prince Nicolas's christening the decision was made by the public broadcaster SVT without the consent of the King, and SVT backtracked after the storm of protest. Does the decision not to broadcast Prince Julian's christening come from the King or from the broadcaster?

If anyone else is searching for the thread on the broadcast of Prince Nicolas's christening: https://www.theroyalforums.com/foru...as-october-11-2015-a-39172-3.html#post1824527

 

[JR76]

But in the case of Prince Nicolas's christening the decision was made by the public broadcaster SVT without the consent of the King, and SVT backtracked after the storm of protest. Does the decision not to broadcast Prince Julian's christening come from the King or from the broadcaster?



If anyone else is searching for the thread on the broadcast of Prince Nicolas's christening: https://www.theroyalforums.com/foru...as-october-11-2015-a-39172-3.html#post1824527

The difference here is that the press release specifically states that there won't be a live transmission of the christening while the press release in the thread you linked to regarding Nicolas's christening didn't mention a live transmission at all. That time it quickly became public knowledge that it was SVT and not the Court that didn't want to televise Nicolas's christening, but so far not even Svensk Damtidning has gotten any other comment about Julian's christening than that the date has been chosen to make it able for as many family members as possible to attend.

 

[Blog Real]

I hope Casa Real will release a video of the baptism.
I understand the decision. Julian is not the son of the heir to the crown, so it is normal for the christening not to be broadcast on TV.

 

[Somebody]

I hope Casa Real will release a video of the baptism.
I understand the decision. Julian is not the son of the heir to the crown, so it is normal for the christening not to be broadcast on TV.

That argument doesn't apply to the Swedish royal family as the older 5 non-heir grandchildren all had their christening service broadcast.

The main difference is that prince Julian wasn't born as a Royal Highness and prince of Sweden unlike his older brothers and cousins. So, that could be an argument for a different treatment. It will be interesting to see whether he will get the order - as that is also part of the christening service in the SRF (his grandfather did give him a dukedom after all).

 

[Tatiana Maria]

The difference here is that the press release specifically states that there won't be a live transmission of the christening while the press release in the thread you linked to regarding Nicolas's christening didn't mention a live transmission at all.

That seems to suggest the decision came from the King this time.

There is a second interesting difference in that the other grandchildren of the King were baptized by the archbishop of Sweden with the chief chaplain of the court and the pastor of the court parish assisting. But according to the press release, the Archbishop will not be present at Prince Julian's christening. Is that a reflection of his position, or does the Archbishop have other commitments for that day?

 

[JR76]

That seems to suggest the decision came from the King this time.



There is a second interesting difference in that the other grandchildren of the King were baptized by the archbishop of Sweden with the chief chaplain of the court and the pastor of the court parish assisting. But according to the press release, the Archbishop will not be present at Prince Julian's christening. Is that a reflection of his position, or does the Archbishop have other commitments for that day?

It could be a reflection of Prince Julian's position, but it could also be because the Archbishop is busy. Prince Gabriel was christened by Antje Jackelén's retired predecessor Anders Wejryd because Antje was away at the time on a previously booked engagement at the time of the christening.
The Court chaplain, Johan Dalman, is also the Bishop of Strängnäs.

 

[Tatiana Maria]

It could be a reflection of Prince Julian's position, but it could also be because the Archbishop is busy. Prince Gabriel was christened by Antje Jackelén's retired predecessor Anders Wejryd because Antje was away at the time on a previously booked engagement at the time of the christening.
The Court chaplain, Johan Dalman, is also the Bishop of Strängnäs.

Thank you for the correction! Since the Archbishop Emeritus was not called in this time, couldn't we assume the omission of the Archbishop is deliberate?

 

[JR76]

Thank you for the correction! Since the Archbishop Emeritus was not called in this time, couldn't we assume the omission of the Archbishop is deliberate?

I think that it's deliberate, but it's impossible to do anything but guess without a statement from those involved (or not involved). Antje might be away on her summer holiday, Anders might be busy with one of his many engagements...

 

[An Ard Ri]

I hope Casa Real will release a video of the baptism.
I understand the decision. Julian is not the son of the heir to the crown, so it is normal for the christening not to be broadcast on TV.

I'm sure there will be footage and some photos of the Prince's Baptism.

 

[LadyFinn]

Margareta Thorgren to Hänt Magazine about the christening:
- Prince Julian's christening will be documented and communicated in various ways both via photo and moving material, in the Royal House's channels and hopefully also in TV channels, however, there will be no live broadcast. The reason for this is that each christening is unique and adapted to the circumstances. Sweden is still in a pandemic which is an important part of this decision.
Thorgren also says that at best, the entire royal family will participate in the christening.
- Hopefully the whole royal family, but we will only present the guest list a few days before the christening. It all depends on the pandemic.
Hovets besked_ Så blir prins Julians dop – tvingas göra om _ Hänt

 

[LadyFinn]

The christening was put to the royal calendar
The King, the Queen, th Crown Princess, Prince Daniel, Prince Carl Philip, Princess Sofia, Princess Madeleine, Christopher O'Neill are listed to attend
Kalender - Sveriges Kungahus

 

[Tatiana Maria]

Margareta Thorgren to Hänt Magazine about the christening:
- Prince Julian's christening will be documented and communicated in various ways both via photo and moving material, in the Royal House's channels and hopefully also in TV channels, however, there will be no live broadcast. The reason for this is that each christening is unique and adapted to the circumstances. Sweden is still in a pandemic which is an important part of this decision.
Thorgren also says that at best, the entire royal family will participate in the christening.
- Hopefully the whole royal family, but we will only present the guest list a few days before the christening. It all depends on the pandemic.
Hovets besked_ Så blir prins Julians dop – tvingas göra om _ Hänt

That is an interesting statement. One can infer from it that the differences between Prince Julian's christening and those of his siblings and cousins are on account of the pandemic and not the fact that he was not born as a Prince of Sweden, but on the other hand, Margareta Thorgren never explicitly denies that Julian's status was a factor.

 

[LadyFinn]

Julian's christening will be shown on SVT.
- It will be broadcast in a summary at 18.15 pm on Sunday 15th August. The program lasts for 45 minutes, confirms Helena Brodén at SVT's press department.
Svensk Damtidning asked Margareta Thorgren, when was it decided that Julian's christening would be televised after all?
- It has been the plan from the beginning. It is not broadcast live but is filmed for the archives and because the Swedish people want to see the christening. The other grandchildren's christenings have been broadcast live, but Prince Julian's TV viewers will see the next day in a summary, says Thorgren.
Does it have to do with the fact that Prince Carl Philip's children no longer belong to the Royal House?
- No, it has to do with the pandemic. We will still be in a pandemic with restrictions in mid-August.
Prins Julians dop sänds i SVT – Sofias och Carl Philips beslut _*Svensk Dam

 

[Archduchess Zelia]

That's nice! Was sort of bummed out that Julian's was be the only christening we wouldn't get to see it so these are lovely news.

 

[Queen Ester]

I am Jewish, could someone explain why the baptism occurs not of the day of birth, but at 14,thank you

 

[JR76]

I am Jewish, could someone explain why the baptism occurs not of the day of birth, but at 14,thank you

There is no set time for when you have to be baptised, but in general the children who are baptised are so during the first six months of their lives.

 

[Tatiana Maria]

Julian's christening will be shown on SVT.
- It will be broadcast in a summary at 18.15 pm on Sunday 15th August. The program lasts for 45 minutes, confirms Helena Brodén at SVT's press department.
Svensk Damtidning asked Margareta Thorgren, when was it decided that Julian's christening would be televised after all?
- It has been the plan from the beginning. It is not broadcast live but is filmed for the archives and because the Swedish people want to see the christening. The other grandchildren's christenings have been broadcast live, but Prince Julian's TV viewers will see the next day in a summary, says Thorgren.
Does it have to do with the fact that Prince Carl Philip's children no longer belong to the Royal House?
- No, it has to do with the pandemic. We will still be in a pandemic with restrictions in mid-August.
Prins Julians dop sänds i SVT – Sofias och Carl Philips beslut _*Svensk Dam

It is not clear to me how filming the entire christening and broadcasting a 45-minute summary of it poses a lower risk of infection than filming the entire christening and broadcasting it in full.

Be that as it may, the downplaying of Prince Julian's exclusion from the Royal House seems to guarantee that the King will attempt to circumvent the laws of royal coats of arms and orders and bestow a royal coat of arms and the Order of the Seraphim on his newest grandson. It will be interesting to see what strategy he and his lawyer will take to achieve that.

 

[Somebody]

I agree. The pandemic is an excuse and there is no logical reason why this set-up poses a smaller risk.

And I wouldn't be surprised at all if the king bestows a royal coat of arms and the Order of the Seraphim on Julian as well (it would also be weird if his older brothers do have those and he doesn't - although their is a clear explanation for it). I also expect them to use a christening crown - although it would be more logical to also tie that to being a prince(ss) of Sweden.

 

[LadyFinn]

Media accreditation for Prince Julian’s christening
As of today, Monday 19 July, Swedish and international media can apply for access to the photo and media area outside Drottningholm Palace Chapel in connection with Prince Julian’s christening Saturday 14 August 2021. The photo and media area will have a limited number of positions.

Programme for Prince Julian’s christening
11.00-12.00 Guests arrive at Drottningholm Palace Chapel
Photo and media position outside the Drottningholm Palace Chapel

12.00 Christening ceremony in Drottningholm Palace Chapel
Only host photographer and host broadcaster
Invited reporters will be allocated seats in the Chapel

13.00 Reception hosted by Their Majesties The King and Queen, Drottningholm Palace
Media accreditation for Prince Julian’s christening - Sveriges Kungahus
Medieackreditering till Prins Julians dop - Sveriges Kungahus

 

[Mbruno]

I agree. The pandemic is an excuse and there is no logical reason why this set-up poses a smaller risk.

And I wouldn't be surprised at all if the king bestows a royal coat of arms and the Order of the Seraphim on Julian as well (it would also be weird if his older brothers do have those and he doesn't - although their is a clear explanation for it). I also expect them to use a christening crown - although it would be more logical to also tie that to being a prince(ss) of Sweden.

If Prince Julian is awarded the Order of the Seraphim and a differentiated royal coat of arms, I believe there are two possible ways of interpreting it:


1) The King simply ignored the law on the use of the royal coat of arms and the government ordinance that regulates the royal orders and awarded both to Julian even though he is not a member of the Royal House.



2) The King actually lacks the power to remove his grandchildren from the Royal House as, under the Act of Succession, all persons in the line of succession to the throne are automatically "Princes and Princesses of the Royal House".



Note , however, that the Act of Succession does not say anything about the titles and styles of the Princes and Princesses of the Royal House. Therefore, I understand that is within the royal prerogative to decide for example whether they should be styled HRH or not in Court communication. HRH BTW is not a legal style used in Swedish documents such as passports for example.

The Court apparently disagrees with interpretation #2 and claims that, by artificially removing CP's and Madeleine's children from the Royal House by will of the King alone, they were automatically exempted from the restrictions in the Act of Succession, such as the need for government consent to marry or having to be raised in Sweden. I don't see any constitutional basis for that opinion though and prefer to go along with the conclusion that what we have seen in Sweden since 2019 is a type of "James/Louise" situation where the King's grandchildren are indeed legally Princes and Princesses of the Royal House, but simply not referred to or styled as such.

 

[LadyFinn]

Photo and media positions for the christening of Prince Julian
There will be two photo and media positions in connection with the Christening of Prince Julian on Saturday 14 August 2021 in the Drottningholm Palace Chapel. The main position will be located outside the Palace Chapel and a smaller position will be located outside the gates by the parkway on the seaside.
The allocation of seats has been administered by the Information department at the Swedish Royal Court. Decisions on the allocation cannot be appealed.
Photo and media positions for the christening of Prince Julian - Sveriges Kungahus

 

[Silverpot]

If Prince Julian is awarded the Order of the Seraphim and a differentiated royal coat of arms, I believe there are two possible ways of interpreting it:


1) The King simply ignored the law on the use of the royal coat of arms and the government ordinance that regulates the royal orders and awarded both to Julian even though he is not a member of the Royal House.



2) The King actually lacks the power to remove his grandchildren from the Royal House as, under the Act of Succession, all persons in the line of succession to the throne are automatically "Princes and Princesses of the Royal House".



Note , however, that the Act of Succession does not say anything about the titles and styles of the Princes and Princesses of the Royal House. Therefore, I understand that is within the royal prerogative to decide for example whether they should be styled HRH or not in Court communication. HRH BTW is not a legal style used in Swedish documents such as passports for example.

The Court apparently disagrees with interpretation #2 and claims that, by artificially removing CP's and Madeleine's children from the Royal House by will of the King alone, they were automatically exempted from the restrictions in the Act of Succession, such as the need for government consent to marry or having to be raised in Sweden. I don't see any constitutional basis for that opinion though and prefer to go along with the conclusion that what we have seen in Sweden since 2019 is a type of "James/Louise" situation where the King's grandchildren are indeed legally Princes and Princesses of the Royal House, but simply not referred to or styled as such.

I dont' know, of course, but I have a feeling that 99% of the population have no knowledge or interest in these matters. But, if Julian is NOT given the order and arms and whatnot, and the papers are writig about it, there will be a small uproar that he is treated differently than the other kids.

Most people (of those who follow the royals) will think it unfair.

So my guess is that The King had better find a way, because it would be too bothersome to try and explain the difference between the royal family and the Royal House. I mean, who cares about that anyway?

 

[JR76]

I dont' know, of course, but I have a feeling that 99% of the population have no knowledge or interest in these matters. But, if Julian is NOT given the order and arms and whatnot, and the papers are writig about it, there will be a small uproar that he is treated differently than the other kids.

Most people (of those who follow the royals) will think it unfair.

So my guess is that The King had better find a way, because it would be too bothersome to try and explain the difference between the royal family and the Royal House. I mean, who cares about that anyway?

The general Swede doesn't care, but there seems to be a general support for the changes to limit the Royal House. Small details like this would probably seem ridiculous to the man on the street. One thing I've noticed in the different royal Facebook groups and Instagram accounts is that while people say that they support the changes they don't approve of its consequences regarding titles, orders, not showing christenings on TV etc... I can't wait for the uproar when the first of the boys marry and people realise that his wife and kids won't get a title. If Svensk Damtidning is still around they'll have a field day.

 

[Silverpot]

The general Swede doesn't care, but there seems to be a general support for the changes to limit the Royal House. Small details like this would probably seem ridiculous to the man on the street. One thing I've noticed in the different royal Facebook groups and Instagram accounts is that while people say that they support the changes they don't approve of its consequences regarding titles, orders, not showing christenings on TV etc... I can't wait for the uproar when the first of the boys marry and people realise that his wife and kids won't get a title. If Svensk Damtidning is still around they'll have a field day.

Haha, yes. So true.
And they definately will protest if Julian is treated differently.

 

[Tatiana Maria]

Thank you, it is nice to read the commentary of Swedish posters.

By the sounds of it, there will be no outcry if the Head of State openly disobeys the laws of the land (!) (by bestowing a royal coat of arms and order on Prince Julian), which is quite interesting.

My further question can be found in this thread.
Swedish Royal Orders & Medals

 

[JR76]

Thank you, it is nice to read the commentary of Swedish posters.



By the sounds of it, there will be no outcry if the Head of State openly disobeys the laws of the land (!) (by bestowing a royal coat of arms and order on Prince Julian), which is quite interesting.

To be honest there are other, and to me more serious, aspects of the reorganisation of the Royal family that could potentially be seen as "disobeying" the laws of the land so this is just a drop in that ocean.
If the King is wise he'll wait to hand the Order of the Seraphim to Prince Julian until the matter of the Royal Orders are settled, but I'm not so sure he will. The silence from the politicians regarding the bigger issue seems to point at them either waiting for the results of the parliamentary inquiry (due in September) or not finding the matter important enough to react to. (This is, of course, the wrong place to discuss the bigger issue).