I don't believe that as an adult that Frances would have to ask anyone's permission to participate in an interview.
Frances Shand Kydd (1936-2004) - Diana's Mother
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I don't believe that as an adult that Frances would have to ask anyone's permission to participate in an interview.
Osipi
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A mother/daughter relationship is one of those things that sometimes just defies rationalizing and explaining. Diana and Frances were no different than millions of mothers and daughters around the world that just seem to be at odd with each other from time to time.
I didn't always see eye to eye with my mother and am totally opposite of her in thinking and character and we often had words yet she was my best friend no matter what happened and things resolved themselves. I'm willing to bet that Diana's volatile temperament and perhaps Frances' drinking more than likely fueled a few heated exchanges of words. Its just sad that at the time of Diana's death, Frances was on the outs with Diana as were quite a few people.
I didn't always see eye to eye with my mother and am totally opposite of her in thinking and character and we often had words yet she was my best friend no matter what happened and things resolved themselves. I'm willing to bet that Diana's volatile temperament and perhaps Frances' drinking more than likely fueled a few heated exchanges of words. Its just sad that at the time of Diana's death, Frances was on the outs with Diana as were quite a few people.
What has this to do with Frances' interview and Diana's angry reaction to the interview?
Frances had done other interviews anyway. She was always IMO rather fond of talking to the press when it suited her so this one in 1997 wasn't that different. But I think that DI had been more on edge with her because of F's drinking and (possibly) her disapproval of her dating Muslim men. So she flared up and cut her out of her life...I think Diana was also particularly angered over the issue of the HRH being mentioned becuase the loss of her HRH bothered her a lot...
Its not all that hard to understand in this case. Diana was volatile with a lot of people. And with her mother, I thik she understood at times that Frances had been unhappy and had wanted to take her with her but hadn't been able to.. and that she had had at least some happiness wiht her new husband. But as Di's own life got more difficult and unhappy, she became more hair trigger in her bouts of anger, and she reverted to the child who had seen her mother drive away and leave her....
Frances seems to have been at one with the Spencer family's point of view about the HRH styling, at least after Diana's death, whatever Diana may have felt about it in life.
Earl Spencer more or less told Robert Fellowes to shove it when Fellowes introduced the subject of the HRH on the Royal train to Althorp. Frances may well have felt, like many British aristocrats, superior to the Windsors as their titles were centuries old and didn't need the trappings of royalty.
Earl Spencer more or less told Robert Fellowes to shove it when Fellowes introduced the subject of the HRH on the Royal train to Althorp. Frances may well have felt, like many British aristocrats, superior to the Windsors as their titles were centuries old and didn't need the trappings of royalty.
That's as may be. The point is that it appears that this remark from Frances about the HRH was what sparked Diana off to cut her mother off completely. She must have felt very strongly about the HRH issue to fall out with her mother for months on end about it...and you'd think that as Di's mother, Frances would have known enough about her daughter to know that she really was unhappy at the loss of her HRH...
That was the biggest problem with Diana, she never ended up really growing out and UP from that old inner child. She was becoming more and more volatile and unstable as she neared her death and it is clear that Diana was almost perpetually unhappy and how would anyone guess if it was something serious that upset her, or was Diana just being her usual temperamental self. I think losing that "HRH" was inevitable since there was NO WAY that the BRF or Parliament would let Diana set up a rival faction using "HRH PRINCESS OF WALES" as her banner. There was never any chance that Diana would be allowed to continue on as she had after her very public attempt to overthrow her husband and therefore, the rightful succession. There is no way that the BRF was going to require the taxpayer to pay for Diana to set up her own court/household and take shots at Charles and the reputations of the rest of the BRF.
As for Frances, let's be blunt. If Frances had stayed, Frances might have ended up dead and therefore would have ended up never there for Diana or had any kind of a chance. I mean really, if Frances had been beaten to death, would Diana have blamed her mother for dying of a broken body and blamed Frances for 'bolting' from the marriage via the fists of Earl Spencer? Would Diana have 'felt abandoned' then and had Ingrid Seward write a scathing biography blaming Frances for being beaten to death? Or maybe Diana would have found some way of blaming her mother for not being tough enough to withstand being beaten regularly.
I'/d like to see waht evidence there is that Frances was "beaten regularly" and "mihgt have ended up dead"? I though that there was a rule that this sort of thing should not be siad on the forum without Evidence.
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Absolutely it is. A very far stretch indeed. We should remember that we got to hear the story of Frances Shand Kydd on this - we never got to hear Johnny Spencer's who seemed to be a man very well regarded by those who knew him.
Yes, could we please see some links to solid evidence from reputable sources that state Johnny Spencer was beating Frances so savagely she 'was in danger of being left dead'. As far as I remember one or two Diana bios mentioned that he had once slapped her face during a quarrel at the time of the separation. Reprehensible doubtless, but hardly on the level of what you are alleging, AristoCat.
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Frances never accused Johnny of physical battery at all, however. If she had been constantly bruised and battered during her marriage that would no doubt have been alleged at the time of the divorce, along with evidence of broken bones, black eyes etc as a counter to her adultery which was not defended.
Nor did Frances ever speak or even hint of any brutality towards her by her ex husband in interviews after Diana was in the spotlight.
I think she did put in a counter accusation of cruelty in one stage in the divorce, but that wasn't unknown at the time when divorce was based on marital fault and people made claims that weren't always true. and Diana's attitude to the truth was always somewhat elastic..
Claims of 'cruelty' made in divorce cases in the times before no fault divorce usually meant mental cruelty however. If there were claims of physical cruelty it would have had to have been accompanied by some evidence, and it appears from what Frances's friends said later that mental cruelty was what Frances meant.
She herself reacted in a late interview to what James Whitaker had written about Johnny in one of the early Diana bios, and seemed surprised, referring to her ex husband as the most mild mannered man she had ever known.
I wasn't referring to anything Diana said about seeing her father slapping her mother. Both Charles Spencer and Diana were devoted to their father and Charles later spoke fondly about his father being a very caring man.
She herself reacted in a late interview to what James Whitaker had written about Johnny in one of the early Diana bios, and seemed surprised, referring to her ex husband as the most mild mannered man she had ever known.
I wasn't referring to anything Diana said about seeing her father slapping her mother. Both Charles Spencer and Diana were devoted to their father and Charles later spoke fondly about his father being a very caring man.
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i think Johnny wasn't a bad guy but he was stupid and difficult and probably quick tempered. I dont think that he slapped Frances but I suppose it is possible that he was a bit rough in the course of an argument, shouting or grabbing her but given that Diana was prone to exaggeration, I think she might have well misremembered.. I certainly dont believe that Jonny was "beating Frances" but rumours seemed to have cropped up in some of Diana's biographies. And if its not true I think its very unfair to the man.. whatever his faults.
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The weather beaten grave of Frances Shand Kydd was tidied up by a tour guide last summer .
Diana's mother was buried at pennyfuir Cemetery in Oban in 2004
Scots tour guide cleans up neglected grave of Prince Harry and William’s gran
Diana's mother was buried at pennyfuir Cemetery in Oban in 2004
Scots tour guide cleans up neglected grave of Prince Harry and William’s gran
Duchess Sophie
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No one from the family takes care of it? Sad... I know it is not in the neighbourhood for them, but still.
If he weren’t a bad guy, then he wouldn’t have hit his wife. And if he hit her once, he likely hit her on other occasions.
However, Frances said in an interview years after the divorce that Johnny was the mildest mannered man she had ever known. She never averred in interviews that he had beaten or even slapped her.
I remember that the journalist James Whittaker (who was well known and worked for British tabloids) inferred that Frances had stated that in her divorce petition. She hadn’t. It was through this that a few biographers repeated the charge.
I remember that the journalist James Whittaker (who was well known and worked for British tabloids) inferred that Frances had stated that in her divorce petition. She hadn’t. It was through this that a few biographers repeated the charge.
I agree that it’s very neglectful. Couldn’t the Spencers and Frances’s grandchildren all get together and organise for someone local (or a local organisation) in the area to keep an eye on it for them, take flowers, do a bit of weeding etc? I know the grave is in a remote area of Scotland but I’m sure somebody would be willing to assist if they received some financial benefit.
And as the grave stone is getting very battered I’m just wondering if a restoration there could be undertaken. Perhaps a supplementary plaque placed inside the church might be in order as well.
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