Princess Delphine & Family, News & Events 1; 2020 - 2023

[Marengo]

The Princess Delphine & Family General News Thread


According to the RTBF (Walloon public television channel), Delphine Boël is now officially princess of Belgium.

The court in Brussels has decided that she will be princess of Belgium. The same goes for her children Josephine and Oscar, all with the prefix of Royal Highness. The judgement took place earlier than expected.

According to Het Gazet van Antwerpen her lawyer confirmed to them that she 'will receive a recognition of paternity, the last name of van Saksen-Coburg and the title of Princess of Belgium'. I have not seen the last name being confirmed by either the RTBF or the VRT but updates will surely follow soon.

According to newspaper 'De Standaard' it is still possible that King Albert will appeal against the judgement.

https://www.rtbf.be/info/belgique/d...nt-designee-princesse-de-belgique?id=10598252

https://www.gva.be/cnt/dmf20201001_...is-nu-officieel-prinses-van-belgie-meldt-rtbf

https://www.demorgen.be/nieuws/delphine-boel-is-nu-officieel-een-belgische-prinses~bacbbc01/

Edit I: the VRT now also claims that she can will get the last name of 'van Saxe-Coburg'.
Edit II: according to Wim Dehandschutter (Flemish royalty reporter) the children will continue to use the last name of their father, O'Hare.
Edit III: article in English can be found here: https://www.brusselstimes.com/news/...ne-boel-is-now-officially-a-belgian-princess/


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The old thread about Delphine Boël can be found here.

 

[Heavs]

Wow. I suppose not unexpected after all the recent kerfuffle but still, wow.

S-C-G wouldn't have been a surprise at all.

Does it say anything about the supposed public life and privileges her lawyers were talking about before?

 

[Fürstin Taxis]

Wheezing, so much for 'I only want him to recognize me :'( '
Welcome to the world, Princess Delphine, Princess Josephine and Prince Oscar

 

[Tatiana Maria]

Wow. I suppose not unexpected after all the recent kerfuffle but still, wow.

S-C-G wouldn't have been a surprise at all.

Yes. While it may seem unsurprising to readers not familiar with Belgian law, it must be underscored that this decision is a major break with the present laws of Belgium. Until now, titles of nobility (1) have been the prerogative of the King and Government, not the courts, and (2) have been transmissible only in legitimate male line, except when a special remainder is stipulated in the patent of creation.

https://diplomatie.belgium.be/en/services/Protocol/nobility_and_honorary_distinctions/nobility/faq

Does it say anything about the supposed public life and privileges her lawyers were talking about before?

My question as well. To be consistent with the arguments of Delphine's lawyers, will the court also order a dotation, a palace, and a formal role?

Is this decision open to be appealed by King Philippe and the Government (given that titles have, until now, been under their authority) or by King Albert?

 

[Tatiana Maria]

However, it is extremely ironic that many of the very same royal experts who most severely attack inheritance of royal and noble titles through female lines because it is "a breach with tradition" and "laws cannot change the fact that dynasties are determined by the father" are adamantly declaring that Delphine Boël deserves to be an HRH Princess of Belgium because "the times have changed" and "there is no law that explicitly forbids her from becoming one".

I am glad that, at least, the court has been more consistent than these "experts" by extending the titles through the female line to Delphine's children as well.

There are more questions I would appreciate the answers to, as I have not read all of the coverage of this decision:

1. What were the legal arguments applied by the court to reach its decision?

2. Why shouldn't the ruling apply to Delphine's husband as well, given that the spouses of Lorenz and Claire are HRH and Prince/ss of Belgium?

3. Why shouldn't the ruling also apply to Princess Astrid's grandchildren, Princess Anna Astrid and Prince Maximilian? (Anna Astrid was registered in her birth certificate as "Princess" but not "Princess of Belgium" or HRH, in accordance with King Philippe's interpretation of his own Royal Decree.)

Now that the court has apparently ruled that HRH and Prince/ss of Belgium are hereditary entitlements, rather than privileges granted or denied by the King's will, then I do not see any reason why Amedeo's children (and the future children of Maria Laura, Joachim, etc.) are not entitled to it.

 

[leidi]

My lord what a mess, thank you Albert for not acknowledging your daughter and now leaving this whole issue in the hands of your eldest son.
UGH.

 

[acdc1]

As someone who doesn't closely follow this family, was this the expected outcome of the announcement? Has there been previous cases where an illegitimate child is given HRH Prince/Princess titles that are hereditary? Are she and her children now in the line of succession?

 

[Blog Real]

And Delphine is now Princess of Belgium!
She just wanted to be recognized by her father, but after all she wanted more...

 

[Tatiana Maria]

As someone who doesn't closely this family, was this the expected outcome of the announcement? Has there been previous cases where an illegitimate child is given HRH Prince/Princess titles that are hereditary?

See the answer in post #4 above.

Are she and her children now in the line of succession?

If the court accepted the arguments of Delphine's lawyers that she is entitled to the same privileges as her siblings, they should be in the line of succession, and Delphine should be entitled to a taxpayer-funded allowance, a taxpayer-funded residence, and an official public role representing the country.

 

[An Ard Ri]

Perhaps the king wants closure this has been going on for far too long but I did not expect to see a Princess Delphine of Belgium.

 

[REAL COUNTESS]

Well wonder if K Albert would do it again if he would sit on the Throne . How could he do this to his family. Sadly just because he was CP at the time? he sure did not think with his head between his shoulders. What a mess. So the Kings new/old sister will be at every function, Daddy Dearest at her side? Maybe the Judge wanted to teach him Albert a lesson. But I don't see how her children will be HRH as well. Now we have to see and wait. God help them all.

 

[Marchesina]

I did not expect this. At all. I had always thought that dynastic laws were above any national law.
Does HRH expects to have a dotation, a house (in Laken maybe) and official engagements too?
One may be born from a king but a royal is another thing and it is more and more rare to find these days...
I pity Philippe who has to deal with all that now when his father has most of his life to do it but never wanted to.

 

[acdc1]

So this means she’s going to join the family at every official function, have public/royal duties, and be a full-fledged member of the family? Did she have a relationship with her half-siblings and father at all? That will be so incredibly awkward, I’m rather shocked by this ruling.

 

[Marengo]

I am not sure if a dotation is likely. The 2014 law states that only the king and the heir will receive a dotation, with a temporary transition arrangement for Astrid and Laurent. As Delphine has nothing to transition from I am not sure how a dotation can be justified.

 

[Michiru-Kaiou]

I have to say, I am quite happy with this. I always thought this legitimacy thing is incredibly unfair and discriminatory, treating children born out of wedlock like dirt, like some shame that has to be hushed and covered up. Something unworthy of the 21st century. And I really hope this also means Belgium has a new 17th, 18th and 19th in line-of-succession.

Anyway, congratulations for this victory, Your Royal Highness!

best wishes Michiru

 

[Tatiana Maria]

The ruling of the court could have been a landmark decision in protection against discrimination, had it simply struck down the laws restricting the inheritance of titles of nobility to legitimate male lines.

Instead, by maintaining these laws (I assume) but making an exception for Delphine, it is simply a case of special treatment being granted to one person because of their royal blood, which can hardly be said to be modern.

The good thing about this case is that it will force the Belgian courts to settle once and for all what "Princes and princesses" mean in the context of the royal decrees of 1891, 1991 and 2015.

From what I gathered from press reports, Delphine's attorneys simply ignored those three words, even omitting them when they quoted from the decree. The court may have done the same.

My lord what a mess, thank you Albert for not acknowledging your daughter and now leaving this whole issue in the hands of your eldest son.
UGH.

Given King Philippe's years of moves to restrict titles, taxpayer funding, state housing, and public engagements, even for his own close family members with whom he has a personal relationship (and to the point where it reportedly sparked arguments between him and his sister and brother), I cannot imagine that he is pleased with this ruling.

But I don't see how her children will be HRH as well.

In the same way that she will be HRH: By the decision of the court.

 

[crm2317]

I’m not surprised she got the surname Saxe Coburg but I am totally shocked that she has been given titles! She is illegitimate and this doesn’t change that!

 

[An Ard Ri]

If the court accepted the arguments of Delphine's lawyers that she is entitled to the same privileges as her siblings, they should be in the line of succession, and Delphine should be entitled to a taxpayer-funded allowance, a taxpayer-funded residence, and an official public role representing the country.

If accepted then Princess Delphine and her children would come after HRH Prince Aymeric in the line of succession.

 

[ACO]

Wow. This has the potential to change a lot of things for some other illegitimate people of royal families. This is definitely fascinating.

 

[Tatiana Maria]

I have to say, I am quite happy with this. I always thought this legitimacy thing is incredible unfair and discriminatory, treating children born out of wedlock like dirt, like some shame that has to be hushed and covered up. Something unworthy of the 21st century. And I really hope this also means Belgium has a new 17th, 18th and 19th in line-of-succession.

Anyway, congratulations for this victory, Your Royal Highness!

best wishes Michiru

I'm not sure how this is a victory for illegitimate children, given that (unless the early reports are incomplete) they continue to be barred by law from inheriting titles.

And given that all women are barred by law from transmitting their titles to their children (whether legitimate or illegitimate), why would your description of "treated like dirt" not apply to the children of noble women?

 

[leidi]

I think it would be deeply unfair if she and her children joined the line of succession.
Alexander, Esmeralda and Marie-Christine were never on it and they were the children of a legitimate marriage of a King.

 

[Tatiana Maria]

I think it would be deeply unfair if she and her children joined the line of succession.
Alexander, Esmeralda and Marie-Christine were never on it and they were the children of a legitimate marriage of a King.

And Princess Anna Astrid and Prince Maximilian have never been HRH or "of Belgium", and they were descendants in legitimate line of a King.

Likewise for Alexandra and Leopoldo Moncada, who like Delphine's children are grandchildren of a King, but in legitimate line.

Again, in light of this ruling, I see no reason why Anna Astrid and Maximilian, or for that matter Alexandra and Leopoldo Moncada, should not enjoy the same title and predicate as HRH Princess Delphine of Belgium, HRH Princess Joséphine of Belgium and HRH Prince Oscar of Belgium.

 

[cathy50]

Delphine, what's next on your list?

Are there truely rules saying she must be invited to family gatherings or official events-
if they developped a sincere relationship ok, but she should not be enabled to force the family even more. But who knows, characters of that kind do not stop challenging or blackmailing.
I hope her partner and children do not feel neglected and ignored because if what she has been going on for years now and still counting...

 

[Marchesina]

I think it would be deeply unfair if she and her children joined the line of succession.
Alexander, Esmeralda and Marie-Christine were never on it and they were the children of a legitimate marriage of a King.

I totally agree.
I don't know how the King is going to deal with all that.
Imagine the court says the palace has to give her an official role as a princess and Delphine attending family gatherings...so awkward...

 

[suztav]

This is B.S. especially since King Leopold and Lillian's three children were not in the line of succession and treated like royal "after thoughts".

So much for her wanting just to be recognized as his daughter.

The truth always comes out in the end. Disappointing.

JMHO.

 

[Marchesina]

Delphine, what's next on your list?

Are there truely rules saying she must be invited to family gatherings or official events-
if they developped a sincere relationship ok, but she should not be enabled to force the family even more. But who knows, characters of that kind do not stop challenging or blackmailing.
I hope her partner and children do not feel neglected and ignored because if what she has been going on for years now and still counting...

Precissly, will she threaten her brother to bring him to court too if he, let's say, doesn't invite her to a family event?

 

[Michiru-Kaiou]

I'm not sure how this is a victory for illegitimate children, given that (unless the early reports are incomplete) they continue to be barred by law from inheriting titles.

It's at least a first-round victory and maybe, just maybe, this can provide for a precedent and can lead to more illegitimate children leading lawsuits, winning those and, ultimately, forcing politics (hopefully not only in Belgium) to reform.

And given that all women are barred by law from transmitting their titles to their children (whether legitimate or illegitimate), why would your description of "treated like dirt" not apply to the children of noble women?

That's another unfairness and I do think the general exclusion of women is as outrageous as the treatment of illegitimate children, however, this is about a specific case and I think discussing other issues would clog the thread.

best wishes Michiru

 

[Minister of Court]

Unbelievable!

 

[Somebody]

So this means she’s going to join the family at every official function, have public/royal duties, and be a full-fledged member of the family? Did she have a relationship with her half-siblings and father at all? That will be so incredibly awkward, I’m rather shocked by this ruling.

No, why would she? Her half-aunts normally don't join the family either while also being princesses of Belgium.

 

[Somebody]

Shocked as well! The Saxe-Coburg surname, sure... But Princess of Belgium?! That does surprise me - although I do understand how they may have come to that ruling. I wonder this will be appealed by either Albert himself or Philippe as head of the house? Or that they conclude this is not worth fighting for as the rule of law is rather strict (changing the law to include something about lawful marriages would probably result in endless court cases as well so might not be the preferred option either).

I guess it all comes down to the second article (of the Koninklijk besluit betreffende de verlening van de titel van Prins of Prinses van België dates from 12 NOVEMBER 2015) being interpreted to mean that all Albert's children and grandchildren are princes and princesses of Belgium...

Artikel 1. In de openbare en private akten die hen aanbelangen, voeren de Prinsen en de Prinsessen, kinderen en kleinkinderen, geboren uit de nakomelingschap in rechte lijn van de Koning, evenals de Prinsen en de Prinsessen, kinderen en kleinkinderen, geboren uit de nakomelingschap in rechte lijn van de Kroonprins of de Kroonprinses, de titel van Prins of Prinses van België volgend op hun voornaam en voor zover ze die voeren, hun familienaam en hun dynastieke titel, en voor de andere titels die hun rechtens hun ascendentie toekomen. Hun voornaam wordt voorafgegaan door het predicaat Zijne of Hare Koninklijke Hoogheid.

Artikel 2. In de openbare en private akten die hen aanbelangen, voeren de Prinsen en de Prinsessen, kinderen en kleinkinderen, geboren uit de nakomelingschap in rechte lijn van Zijne Majesteit Koning Albert II, de titel van Prins of Prinses van België volgend op hun voornaam en voor zover ze die voeren, hun familienaam en hun dynastieke titel, en voor de andere titels die hun rechtens hun ascendentie toekomen. Hun voornaam wordt voorafgegaan door het predicaat Zijne of Hare Koninklijke Hoogheid.

Source

If this was not what the lawmakers intended they should have made the provision that it only applied to legitimate children and grandchildren resulting from lawful marriages.