Mabel Criticizes President Bush on AIDS: December 2005

[pollyemma]

here's an article from Today's Telegraaf.

http://www.telegraaf.nl/binnenland/29591201/Mabel_bekritiseert_Bush.html

I will very roughly translate:

At an Aids conference in Amsterdam yesterday Princess Mabel lashed out as President Bush's policies.

She feels the Bush administration's policies harm the fight against HIV/AIDs among drug users and stigmatizes prositutes. The Open Society Institute where she works (headed by George Soros) has filed a law suit against the US government.

She said the US has done all within its power to keep measures to promote clean needles for drug users out of UN documents. despite the fact that clean needles among drug users prevents the spread of HIV/AIDS. Drugs and HIV/AIDS are often related she says. in Russia 80 percent of drug users are HIV positive.

The Open Society law suit has to do with prostitutes. The Bush administration will only fund help organizations that take an explicit stance against prostitution.

"sex workers are the victims of stigma, violence and discrimination," and now " organizations that help these people with money from the US government are required to judge them." she said. Bush's policy led the Brazilian government to refuse a 40 million dollar subsidy this year.

The Open Society hopes that it's lawsuit will lead to courts striking down the antiprositution rule as unconstitutional.

-----

Ok, I really really DON'T want to start a discussion on Bush and AIDS as that is way too explosive, we'll never agree and besides it's off topic.

My question is: is it appropriate for Mabel to give a speech like this? she's not a member of the royal house. but she is a member of the royal family and closely associated with the dutch head of state.


could she give this speech if parliament had approved her marriage to Friso and she were a member of the royal house carrying out official duties?

I really dont know. tell me what you think.

 

[Maxie]

Ok, I really really DON'T want to start a discussion on Bush and AIDS as that is way too explosive, we'll never agree and besides it's off topic.

My question is: is it appropriate for Mabel to give a speech like this? she's not a member of the royal house. but she is a member of the royal family and closely associated with the dutch head of state.


could she give this speech if parliament had approved her marriage to Friso and she were a member of the royal house carrying out official duties?

I really dont know. tell me what you think.

Wow, that's a though one. I personally feel that it's up to Mabel herself to decide what she can say about topics like this. Let's not forget: she's a very educated and politcally moved lady and I think she surely knows what she is talking of in this kind of matters. Next to that she is not a member of the Royal House anymore, so she lives a much more anonimous life than her sisters-in-law Máxima and Laurentien do and so she never speaks with the voice of the Royal House. I personally find that she could not have done this if she still was a member of the royal house.

Is it wise though? I don't know. Probably not, future will tell. I even think we'll be hearing more of this kind of speeches from her in future. Mabel is a very outspoken lady and I think that she won't let herself be held back by her royal connections or anyone else to speak out her mind and to fight for the causes she stands for...

 

[purple_platinum]

I think Mabel has been a strong figure since even she wasn't married, so, i don't think a marriage to a royal house will not stop her to fight what she believe in.

I don't think it's a defect, but something we should be proud of.

 

[pollyemma]

I think Mabel has been a strong figure since even she wasn't married, so, i don't think a marriage to a royal house will not stop her to fight what she believe in.

I don't think it's a defect, but something we should be proud of.

true, but she's involved a lawsuit against the government of one of the Netherlands most important trading/economic partners.

i'm not sure she could have done that if she were in the royal house. maybe things actually worked out better for her.

 

[bbb]

as an American (whose civic duty is to question my qovernment at every turn) i applaud Mabel for her views and courage to say them. Bush doesn't care about anybody but his rich cronies and how to help them make more money so make no mistake about it, all she said was TRUE. I applaud and respect her for fighting for her worthwhile, life saving organization. i'm proud of her and hope she keeps on fighting the bad guys.

Independent from Texas

 

[purple_platinum]

I know the royals are supposed to be impartial, but i think more royals should be more pro-active in fighting for poverty, aids, and other important subjects. They have a power to influence others, and i think they should make the best out of it.

sure Mabel have had some past, but no one is perfect.
and i'm really proud seeing her now. she's an independent and strong woman, just like Maxima & Laurentien. they are all fighting to what their believe in; maxima in microcredit & laurentien in illeteracy. and HM the Queen should be proud of. I just hope the oranjes boys are more pro-active than their wives.

 

[BeatrixFan]

I think Mabel was right to give this speech and it's made me think differently about her. She isn't another princess who is playing Ghandi. She seems to care and she isn't making wild allegations - she's quoting fact. I think that it's a very brave move and one which should be applauded.

 

[Maxie]

i'm not sure she could have done that if she were in the royal house. maybe things actually worked out better for her.

I think she knows pretty good what she's doing, with or without our beloved Royal House. Okay, she made some bad choices in de past and maybe she'll make them again in future, but I think she just thinks it's worth the effort .

 

[mirrjam]

I think it was very good of her, to say these things. At most occasions royal family members should feel free to give their opinion about it.

 

[SpiffyBallerina]

Hey, I'm an America lover and Bush hater so what she says doesn't bother me in the least! She said something that's true and from the heart, so I think it was appropriate. Go Princess Mabel!

 

[pollyemma]

Ok guys, back to royalty: I would seriously challenge you all to ask you yourselves if Mabel were party to some measure that we all disagreed with.

say she was filing a lawsuit challenging the US policy of letting women vote. ( and I do hope we all would disagree with that )

wouldnt we say that it was innapropriate of a daughter-in-law of a head of state to attack the policies of another country???

or would you say it was fine and appropriate for her to speak out on the issues she cares about, even if that be against women's suffrage?

 

[Lady Marmalade]

Ok guys...I would seriously challenge you all to ask you yourselves if Mabel were party to some measure that we all disagreed with.

say she was filing a lawsuit challenging the US policy of letting women vote. ( and I do hope we all would disagree with )

wouldnt we say that it was innapropriate of a daughter-in-law of a head of state to attack the policies of another country???

or would you say it was fine and appropriate for her to speak out on the issues she cares about, even if that be against women's suffrage?

Now that I have cooled off...

She has a right to her opinion. BUT!!! As the daughter-in-law of the Queen of the Netherlands, it is in VERY poor taste to criticize another country's policies so openly like that.

Royal families in Europe who do not rule anymore, but reign, are supposed to be APOLITICAL IN PUBLIC.

Whether she likes it or not, when she married the prince her behavior had to change with it.

The only reason people are supporting her, and let's be honest, on here, is because she is criticising President Bush...and people take every chance they get to support anyone, no matter, the issue when he is attacked.

You all the have the right to question your government, but, stop ripping apart a president at every chance simply because you all hate him...even if the issue that she has with him is he will not help prostitutes..

Why should he???????

 

[norwegianne]

As a reminder:

Absolutely no discussions of politics is allowed. As we all come from different parts of the world with varying liberal and conservative views, an attack or offensive comment against another nation, a head of state or international and national policies of other nations only leads to disputes -- all of which have nothing to do with royalty. Reference to and discussions of a government or a government leader and the decisions/actions/policies carried out by them are strictly prohibited. You may or may not like the individual leader or agree or disagree with his or her decisions and policies, but their decisions and actions have no baring at this forum. Posts and discussions about politics may and will be removed without notice.

- http://www.theroyalforums.com/forums/f14/trf-posting-rules-guidelines-4920.html

Norwegianne

 

[SpiffyBallerina]

Just because people intensely dislike his policies does NOT mean they automatically wish him dead. The two certainly don't go hand in hand.

BACK to Mabel - If there were seriously a problem, I think we would have heard about more fuss about her comments from inside The Netherlands. Since it doesn't seem like it's a big deal there, I don't think anyone really cares whether or not she criticized a politician from another country based on something that is true - a sketchy track record on AIDS.

 

[pollyemma]

Just because people intensely dislike his policies does NOT mean they automatically wish him dead. The two certainly don't go hand in hand.

BACK to Mabel - If there were seriously a problem, I think we would have heard about more fuss about her comments from inside The Netherlands. Since it doesn't seem like it's a big deal there, I don't think anyone really cares whether or not she criticized a politician from another country based on something that is true - a sketchy track record on AIDS.

well the speech was yesterday so we still have to see if there is any reaction. it got prominent billing in one of holland's biggest papers, that much we know.

 

[bigheadshirmp]

Mabel is no longer a member of the royal household...so i guess her speech does not need to be "carefully spoken" like her other 2 sisters-in-laws....
besides...AIDS is an issue that people should care worldwide...it's not like other political issues....so BRAVO to MABEL!!!!!!

 

[BeatrixFan]

Lady Marmalade - I had a physic vision of what you'd feel on this one! Would you feel the same if she was criticising Tony Blair? For me, it doesn't matter that she's attacking Bush - she's speaking her mind and I for one am fed up of this silent wallflower image that most Princesses are forced to take on. It's brilliant that someone in her position is doing something good - she isn't criticising him on climate change - she's trying to help people with AIDS and I think thats to be applauded.

 

[BeatrixFan]

Lady M - It's not name calling or having a pop at Bush - she hasn't said, "He's an ugly swine who only cares about himself". She's criticised his stance on AIDS treatment - can't someone speak out against him? Is he that precious? I think bringing Mabel's past into it is a bit much - she's entitled to an opinion. Bush isn't free of critcism and I truly believe that Mabel was trying to do her best for a serious cause.

 

[oskana]

i applaud mabel's proactive stance....i just wish certain princesses would do the same instead of just waving hands and looking pretty. since she is no longer a member of the royal house i dont see the problem in her voicing her opininons.

 

[Emily]

You all the have the right to question your government, but, stop ripping apart a president at every chance simply because you all hate him...even if the issue that she has with him is he will not help prostitutes..

Why should he???????

I think Mabel has a right to Freedom of Speech. I also think those who tout their Christianity need to remember that Christ did very much reach out to the outcast -- that includes prostitues.

 

[hsh1969]

I just hope the Queen kicks her bony behind for those kind of comments, so out of place; if you want to be part of the "wall flower society" of the monarchy. Those comments coming from somebody who had connections with druglords/criminals are not admirable, but just opportunistic. If she wants to be a political or world leader, go ahead, but before you do that renounce to be called princess, HRH or whatever title will tie you with any Royal House. There is nothing wrong with help whoever is in need be a sick AIDS patient or a prostitute, great we (the world) need helpers but get your behind where your mouth is and show how much is needed. Don't show up all dressed up and pretty and talk and offend, but go to those places with the press behind you and show, bring the press where is needed, not to show your face, but the face of the needy ones. I really wish she gets stripped of her titles and courtesies, maybe then I'll respect what she says, but she is not doing anything brave.

 

[pollyemma]

I just hope the Queen kicks her bony behind for those kind of comments,

LOL. i'm having trouble visualizing that...

 

[SpiffyBallerina]

All political figures are up for criticism. It's everyone's duty to keep them in check so the various political systems work. It all goes back to social contract and whatnot. The USA does need to do more to help stop the AIDS pandemic and we're very rich and powerful and Mabel was just saying that we could do more. She didn't do anything ad hominem really, she just said a fact that maybe some people don't like to hear.

 

[Maxie]

All political figures are up for criticism. It's everyone's duty to keep them in check so the various political systems work. It all goes back to social contract and whatnot. The USA does need to do more to help stop the AIDS pandemic and we're very rich and powerful and Mabel was just saying that we could do more. She didn't do anything ad hominem really, she just said a fact that maybe some people don't like to hear.

I so totally agree with you! Everybody should critizise political figures when it comes to matters like this. Whether your live in the US, Europe or anywhere else. And next to that I think Mabel really is too smart to say something ad hominem. Ad hominem never works when people want to figure something out...

 

[SpiffyBallerina]

Her Royal Highness Princess Mabel, Countess of Orange-Nassau, is acting as director of the Open Society Institute (OSI).
Her institute has started a lawsuit against the Bush Administration. According the Princess -in an address on an Aids-conference in Amsterdam, yesterday- the Bush Administration is blocking all UN, bilateral and NGO-help in which the exchange of clean needles or prostitution is involved.
According to the Princess, in a country as Russia, 80% of all people who are infected with hiv are intraveneus (using needles) drug users. The problem the Open Society Institute has with the Bush Administration they only want to co-operate with organizations who explicitly declare to stand against prostitution.
On itself an understandable demand, but Princess Mabel stated:"Workers in the sex industry often are the victims of stigmatization, discrimination and violence. And now organizations, who are partially financed with US-funds, are forced to speak out an explicit condemnation against these people." Earlier this year, the Brazilean Government has refused a 40-dollar contribution because of this dispute. With the lawsuit Princess Mabel hopes that the 'anti-prostitution declaration' the US Government requests will be labelled unconstitutional.
The Princess also uttered sharp critics on the so-called abc-principles, which are favorite by the US Government: abstinence, be faithful and use a condom. According to the Princess this idealistic principle is no realistic option for by far the most girls and women.
The Princess stated that worldwide between 20 to 50% from all first sexual encounters are not out of free and own will for the girls or women involved. Women often are the victim of domestic violence, modern slavery in sex industry, rape and increasing sexual violence in wars. "In all these cases the so noble 'abc-principle' is totally irrelevant" so said Princess Mabel.
The Princess showed her deep concern with the situation in some countries which were unbelievably hard hit by AIDS. "Nurses, judges, soldiers, teachers, policemen, in some countries they die faster than that we can educate them. In the last 15 years in a country as Zambia 102 by-elections were needed: all of these because the elect involved died of AIDS." Princess Mabel figured out that each by-election costs 200,000 US Dollars. "Enough for a year long AIDS-blockers for 1,000 people!" so argued the Princess, who showed deep concern about the frail democracies in the countries hit by AIDS.

-Benelux message board

 

[hsh1969]

As I said opportunistic, to tell you the truth I did not realized she worked for George Soros, otherwise I would have never opined about Mabel. Incredible; a member of a "dead society" critisizing other's countries policies, but she works for who she works. Still she is not puting her behind where her mouth is, or her money where her "concerned" mind is.
This thread is about whether is her position as a member of a rf to speaks as she does, IMO no, she should be quietly using her position to have the cameras following her into places where crimes are happening, meanwhile the institution is suing the US Gov for policies enforced thru UNited clowns of the world; there are kids being victimized at any scale. She is so hypocritical that is a shame somebody like Queen Beatrix has "that" in her family bringing her issues.
But that's my IMO. I shall not return to this thread till she shows her "bows" in needy lands.

 

[Emily]

Opportunistic? Mabel is and our President is not? Let's not be the pot calling the kettle black. A majority of the American population thinks that President Bush - as in 'Bush of oil money' - is being exactly that by invading Iraq. Opportunistic? By President Bush using the beautiful tenets of a major world religion to amass political clout but not following those same tenets when it isn't politically expedient? Freedom of Speech is a wonderful privilege to keep the truth from being hidden. Talk on, Mabel....

 

[SpiffyBallerina]

Hey, I'm American and I don't take any offense. I'm on her side.

 

[BeatrixFan]

Then I'll re-word my comment. It seems that it's mainly Americans who are throwing their toys out of the pram and saying she should keep her mouth shut whilst people of other nationalities seem to be game for her to speak her mind. I find that interesting.

 

[bbb]

Hey, I'm American and I don't take any offense. I'm on her side.

ME TOO
no one claiming to be a Christian can believe prostitutes (or anyone) deserves to die of AIDS that's obscene.