Royal Education

[FigTree]

Wow...are you telling me Queen Elizabeth II NEVER went to school??? O__O

ooOOooOOooo [/b]

When you're the future Queen, dahling, you don't GO to school.. the school comes to YOU!!!! [/QUOTE]

Extremely under educated but rather typical of her generation. She did have tutoring from many many people though. Margaret got none and yet it was she who was most interested in education.

The Queen mother had no interest whatsoever in education and no interest in her girls even reading.

 

[Curryong]

The Queen and Margaret had a governess for many years, Marion Crawford. And several tutors called.

And it is completely untrue that the Queen Mother was uninterested in her daughters’ reading. The future Edward VIII recalled calling to see the Yorks several times at around tea time and the QM and the girls would imitate characters from Winnie the Pooh, The Wind in the Willows and other classics of children’s literature.

 

[FigTree]

The Queen and Margaret had a governess for many years, Marion Crawford. And several tutors called.

And it is completely untrue that the Queen Mother was uninterested in her daughters’ reading. The future Edward VIII recalled calling to see the Yorks several times at around tea time and the QM and the girls would imitate characters from Winnie the Pooh, The Wind in the Willows and other classics of children’s literature.

Margaret didn’t and the Queen mother had no interest in their education. She was a woman of her time. I think other members of the family may have pushed her a bit.

As was typical of girls of their class at the time they were very undereducated but Elizabeth did receive a high quality tutoring from a tutor from Eton on politics and history and the like.

They were not alone and even up as far as Camilla/Diana etc woman of that classs did. It have satisfactory educations.

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

They were not at all undereducated as ladies of that class were supposed to be generally knowledgeable to hold a conversation on level. From literature to classic music, from managing a stately home to organizing social events.

They may not have a professional qualification to be a nurse, or a train conductor, or a secretary. But that never was the purpose of their formation. Camilla went to France to train her French language in daily practice. Not because she was planning to live over there but because it was de rigueur for ladies of standing to have a broad formation and preferrably being able to speak more languages.

Let me compare the two sisters with the four daughters of Queen Juliana: like the two British ladies, their four Dutch contemporaries never needed any day of work. Simply because there was no any need to have a professional career. When such a career never was pursued in the first place, it was logic that these ladies were "prepared" for a life without a job indeed. A total different world with many of today's royals.

I am sure that all these princesses were (are) intelligent and socially very agile persons and indeed were prepared for such a life.

 

[FigTree]

They were not at all undereducated as ladies of that class were supposed to be generally knowledgeable to hold a conversation on level. From literature to classic music, from managing a stately home to organizing social events.

They may not have a professional qualification to be a nurse, or a train conductor, or a secretary. But that never was the purpose of their formation. Camilla went to France to train her French language in daily practice. Not because she was planning to live over there but because it was de rigueur for ladies of standing to have a broad formation and preferrably being able to speak more languages.

Let me compare the two sisters with the four daughters of Queen Juliana: like the two British ladies, their four Dutch contemporaries never needed any day of work. Simply because there was no any need to have a professional career. When such a career never was pursued in the first place, it was logic that these ladies were "prepared" for a life without a job indeed. A total different world with many of today's royals.

I am sure that all these princesses were (are) intelligent and socially very agile persons and indeed were prepared for such a life.

Their education did not equate with today and they were unfairly prejudiced against in comparison with their brothers (meaning men) who were well educated.

All ladies of that class spoke French and were sent to finishing school. The main aim was to prepare them for marriage and that was it. Some were well educated: Princess Alexandra was sent to boarding school. Some didn't want education. Many did and they had a right to it.

 

[Denville]

how do you know that all upper class women spoke French?

 

[Prinsara]

Juliana went to university herself (and loved it, and graduated) and I believe all four of her daughters did, even though there was "no need for any of it".

It has been said the real great tragedy of Princess Margaret's life was being highly intelligent and not having nearly enough outlet for it. If she had been better educated, she may not have felt her only standing around people came from being the King's daughter or the Queen's sister.

 

[JR76]

how do you know that all upper class women spoke French?

It's of course impossible to say that all upper class women spoke French, but an ability to speak French was part of what was considered necessary knowledge for upper class women and there are also numerous examples of how the aristocracy of several European regions preferred speaking French among themselves instead of the native language. How correct their French was is another matter. When Desirée Clary arrived in Sweden after her husband's election as heir to the throne she was much surprised when what she thought was people speaking Swedish to her turned out to be their attempts at speaking French.

 

[Prinsara]

It's of course impossible to say that all upper class women spoke French, but an ability to speak French was part of what was considered necessary knowledge for upper class women and there are also numerous examples of how the aristocracy of several European regions preferred speaking French among themselves instead of the native language. How correct their French was is another matter. When Desirée Clary arrived in Sweden after her husband's election as heir to the throne she was much surprised when what she thought was people speaking Swedish to her turned out to be their attempts at speaking French.

That's actually pretty funny, at two hundred years' hindsight. Was she able to fix that at all, considering she never really learned Swedish?

And yet for some reason using French-descended terms in English now (like "pardon" instead of "what?") is considered to be a nouveau riche sign rather than aristocratic. Don't know when that shifted around.

 

[Denville]

It's of course impossible to say that all upper class women spoke French, but an ability to speak French was part of what was considered necessary knowledge for upper class women and there are also numerous examples of how the aristocracy of several European regions preferred speaking French among themselves instead of the native language. How correct their French was is another matter. When Desirée Clary arrived in Sweden after her husband's election as heir to the throne she was much surprised when what she thought was people speaking Swedish to her turned out to be their attempts at speaking French.

I was talking about upper class women of the queen's generation.

Juliana went to university herself (and loved it, and graduated) and I believe all four of her daughters did, even though there was "no need for any of it".

It has been said the real great tragedy of Princess Margaret's life was being highly intelligent and not having nearly enough outlet for it. If she had been better educated, she may not have felt her only standing around people came from being the King's daughter or the Queen's sister.

If it bothered Margo all that much, surely she could have hired private tutors and studied the various things that interested her...she had royal duties but she still im sure had ample spare time

 

[JR76]

I was talking about upper class women of the queen's generation.

And I replied to just that. Even though my example about Desirée Clary took place 200 years ago the rest of my post is still valid for Queen Elizabeth's generation. Many of her friends and relatives spent time in either France or Switzerland to acquire a better knowledge of the language.

 

[FigTree]

how do you know that all upper class women spoke French?

It was the thing. Did all of them...without a doubt no. Some no doubt preferred German as Unity Mitford.

 

[JR76]

It was the thing. Did all of them...without a doubt no. Some no doubt preferred German as Unity Mitford.

While French was almost mandatory to learn for everybody, depending on their country of origin many aristocratic girls also learnt English and German or both. English nurses, German fräuleins and French mademoiselles were an indispensable part of European upper class life up until the Second World War.

 

[Somebody]

Juliana went to university herself (and loved it, and graduated) and I believe all four of her daughters did, even though there was "no need for any of it".

Queen Juliana indeed went to university but never graduated. After 2 years her mother thought she had spent enough time at university, so it was arranged (apparently at the initiative of the rector magnificus at that time who thought Juliana had done relatively well) that Juliana received an honorary doctorate upon leaving university.

Her grandmother queen Emma questioned this gesture wondering whether her granddaughter had truly studied that hard that she 'earned' an honorary doctorate. She stated that when the royal house was involved people tend to exaggerate performances and make unwarranted judgments...

See 'Juliana aan de Leidse Universiteit'.


Princess Beatrix also studied at Leiden University. She studied Law and Sociology and did graduate.

Princess Irene took courses at the University of Lausanne and studied at Utrecht University. Here she studied Spanish Linguistics and Literature and successfully passed her exam as an interpreter-translator in Spanish(-Dutch).

Princess Margriet studied a year at Université Montpellier where she took courses in French and History of Arts. Next, she studied at Leiden University; she took courses in Law but it seems she never graduated (unlike her husband who is a Law-graduate from Leiden University - where they met).

Princess Christina took some courses in psychology, sociology and cultural history at a Social Academy and at the University of Groningen. In addition, she went to a teacher academy to study pedagogy but quit prematurely to move to Canada to study at École de musique Vincent-d'Indy for three years. It is unclear to me whether she graduated. Afterwards she took some courses at McGill University.

 

[JR76]

While French was almost mandatory to learn for everybody, depending on their country of origin many aristocratic girls also learnt English and German or both. English nurses, German fräuleins and French mademoiselles were an indispensable part of European upper class life up until the Second World War.

I'm just rereading "Krona och klave", the memoirs of Count Sigvard Bernadotte who writes that in addition to their English nanny he and his siblings had a German fräulein to teach them German and a French mademoiselle to teach his sister Ingrid, the future Queen of Denmark, French. Apparently French was deemed unnecessary for princes to learn.

 

[CyrilVladisla]

As per her father's wishes, Queen Christina of Sweden was given the same education that a male heir would have gotten. The subjects she learned included politics, history, philosophy, and religion.

 

[CyrilVladisla]

Prince Charles at school in 1957